LW Lawson Crouse - Kingston Frontenacs, OHL (2015 Draft)
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McOvechking
Registered User
The love for this kid is out of control. He's a big kid who developed early. He lacks high end offensive skill or high hockey IQ. I don't see him being an impact player in the NHL.
BakedBuffalo
**** run 4 Chychrun
If the Sabres picked Crouse at #3 I think I would actually go insane. It's mind-numbing that he's rated at 3.
Maybe the team he plays and the style they play factor into point totals. Sam Bennet being injured has really hurt them and they've just sold off Kujawinski so clearly they aren't a strong team this season. He doesn't have the luxury of playing with high end skill that other top draft prospects this year. Go ahead and strictly look at his point totals, his play says otherwise. I think people forget that he's on pace for 39 goals this year on a lower scoring team.
Marc the Habs Fan
Moderator
Classic outrageous ISS ranking with Crouse 3rd overall.
This is the same scouting service that had Galchenyuk in the early teens (with Brendan Gaunce ahead of him), Nikita Filatov ahead of Drew Doughty and Paajarvi ahead of Kane.
This is the same scouting service that had Galchenyuk in the early teens (with Brendan Gaunce ahead of him), Nikita Filatov ahead of Drew Doughty and Paajarvi ahead of Kane.
DrJenniferHanson
Cursed By A Gypsy
They had Dvorak in the late 7th round last year. Look how that's turning out.
Ohashi_Jouzu*
Registered User
LOTS of doubt that he will play in the NHL (and by that I mean have any kind of career). He was easily one of the weakest links in the Canadian chain and looks a level behind most of the actual top-end "hopefuls" fundamentally and in terms of how quickly/well he reads the game. I don't see where all this glowing praise can possibly stem from. Both he and Nick Paul strike me as poster boys for size compensating for skill at the junior level, which was good for the cycle game, I guess.
I don't know whether we're watching the same player. Crouse has his issues but certainly I don't know how one can have an issue with "how he reads the play and how quickly he reacts".
Crouse's anticipation off the puck especially in forechecking scenarios is in my opinion unique to be seen in a prospect at this age. He might not have high end offensive skills or high end vision to make the plays with the puck on his stick (though I'd say he is certainly not deficient for 1st rounder) but it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that a player with this combination of shot, size/speed, anticipation, intensity, and what's essentially a pro game is being talked about as someone who can go around 10 overall (3rd overall certainly seems excessive in my mind though).
Crouse's question marks are basically two: what is his real offensive upside, and how much impact will his pro-game have on him progressing through the ranks. The reason he is ranked so high because it is very easy to imagine him sliding up or down the line-up from a supporting piece on the 1st line to an elite 3rd liner. And players who play the game the way he plays and have as many dimensions to the game as he does have a lot of value. There's question marks with him as with almost every prospect but it shouldn't be a surprise that he is highly ranked, his floor is very high and the one big question mark which is offensive upside is mitigated by his pro-game that should translate nicely, so there's less "need" for him to hit 100 points. A safe pick and the type of player that every team wants to have, if you're picking him anywhere 5-15 I don't see a big deal. Can question offensive upside and his role as a "creator" with the puck on his stick, don't know how you can question his decision-making though, it's rather unique for a player to be as good at decision making and anticipation as he is at that age.
UvBnDatsyuked
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- Apr 30, 2005
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Great size and very good skater. Does not have first round puck skills or decision making. When will people learn that to be considered that high you better bring something special. Let another GM step up and take him and then wonder why he didn't turn into the early first round prospect they wished
I honestly have not seen Crouse play much at all but the discussions about his point production remind me a lot of the discussions about Kreider and his production during college.
McGuiresMonsters
Registered User
I don't know whether we're watching the same player. Crouse has his issues but certainly I don't know how one can have an issue with "how he reads the play and how quickly he reacts".
Crouse's anticipation off the puck especially in forechecking scenarios is in my opinion unique to be seen in a prospect at this age. He might not have high end offensive skills or high end vision to make the plays with the puck on his stick (though I'd say he is certainly not deficient for 1st rounder) but it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that a player with this combination of shot, size/speed, anticipation, intensity, and what's essentially a pro game is being talked about as someone who can go around 10 overall (3rd overall certainly seems excessive in my mind though).
Crouse's question marks are basically two: what is his real offensive upside, and how much impact will his pro-game have on him progressing through the ranks. The reason he is ranked so high because it is very easy to imagine him sliding up or down the line-up from a supporting piece on the 1st line to an elite 3rd liner. And players who play the game the way he plays and have as many dimensions to the game as he does have a lot of value. There's question marks with him as with almost every prospect but it shouldn't be a surprise that he is highly ranked, his floor is very high and the one big question mark which is offensive upside is mitigated by his pro-game that should translate nicely, so there's less "need" for him to hit 100 points. A safe pick and the type of player that every team wants to have, if you're picking him anywhere 5-15 I don't see a big deal. Can question offensive upside and his role as a "creator" with the puck on his stick, don't know how you can question his decision-making though, it's rather unique for a player to be as good at decision making and anticipation as he is at that age.
I think this post is a really fair description of Crouse's game and potential.
Ohashi_Jouzu*
Registered User
Except for the parts that describe anything about such a vanilla big man as "unique". I personally wouldn't touch him with a 1st rounder.
McGuiresMonsters
Registered User
McDNicks17
Moderator
ISS's rankings are always very "what have you done for me lately?", so it's no surprise he's up there right now.
When is the last time than under PPG forward was drafted from CHL in the first round and actually became a big time scorer in the NHL?
Paradis, MacMillan, Gillies..
Paradis, MacMillan, Gillies..
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
I don't think anyone is disputing that Crouse is big, strong, fast, smart. I certainly think he is elite in the first three categories and excellent in the last. He is the perfect player away from the puck. The only question should be his offensive upside. I strongly believe he's a lock to be a third liner. But you don't take those players third overall, let alone top ten.
Heck, if you could combine Crouse and Nik Goldobin, you'd have a superstar; one kid who is perfect away from the puck but questionable offense, and one kid who is amazing offensively but has questions about his play away from the puck.
Heck, if you could combine Crouse and Nik Goldobin, you'd have a superstar; one kid who is perfect away from the puck but questionable offense, and one kid who is amazing offensively but has questions about his play away from the puck.
Lawson Crouse ranked ahead of Noah Hanifin in the latest rankings.
Because really who WOULDN'T take the next Zack Kassian over the next Drew Doughty, right?
Because really who WOULDN'T take the next Zack Kassian over the next Drew Doughty, right?
Ohashi_Jouzu*
Registered User
Sure, but attempt to reconcile someone like, say, Bittner - who probably fits nki's description even better - and his #30 ranking, then.
Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
- May 28, 2006
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I don't know whether we're watching the same player. Crouse has his issues but certainly I don't know how one can have an issue with "how he reads the play and how quickly he reacts".
Crouse's anticipation off the puck especially in forechecking scenarios is in my opinion unique to be seen in a prospect at this age. He might not have high end offensive skills or high end vision to make the plays with the puck on his stick (though I'd say he is certainly not deficient for 1st rounder) but it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that a player with this combination of shot, size/speed, anticipation, intensity, and what's essentially a pro game is being talked about as someone who can go around 10 overall (3rd overall certainly seems excessive in my mind though).
Crouse's question marks are basically two: what is his real offensive upside, and how much impact will his pro-game have on him progressing through the ranks. The reason he is ranked so high because it is very easy to imagine him sliding up or down the line-up from a supporting piece on the 1st line to an elite 3rd liner. And players who play the game the way he plays and have as many dimensions to the game as he does have a lot of value. There's question marks with him as with almost every prospect but it shouldn't be a surprise that he is highly ranked, his floor is very high and the one big question mark which is offensive upside is mitigated by his pro-game that should translate nicely, so there's less "need" for him to hit 100 points. A safe pick and the type of player that every team wants to have, if you're picking him anywhere 5-15 I don't see a big deal. Can question offensive upside and his role as a "creator" with the puck on his stick, don't know how you can question his decision-making though, it's rather unique for a player to be as good at decision making and anticipation as he is at that age.
Great breakdown. I was consistently impressed by his decisions with and without the puck. The kid understands how to play great hockey within a team concept.
I think Crouse is great with the puck too, in that he always makes smart choices for the team to maintain possession, even under tight checking.
You can argue he may not be a star, but how valuable are forwards who are 6'3" and growing, strong, fast, can be an asset on any line, and consistently make smart decisions at both ends of the ice?
If you don't draft those players, they're nearly impossible to acquire. And they're exactly the sort of player you need to win playoff wars of attrition.
Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
- May 28, 2006
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Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
I agree that Crouse will be a player that every team would want, but the bottom line is you don't draft a player you know won't be a star over someone like Hanifin, Strome, Marner.
The HIGHEST he should be taken is 6, and that's only if the team believes that the upside isn't worth the risk on ALL of Kylington, Merkley, Zacha, Barzal, Werenski, Svechnikov, Rantanen, Connor, etc.
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