LW Lawson Crouse - Kingston Frontenacs, OHL (2015 Draft)

[sniper81]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if Crouse is supposed to be a top-5 pick, he needs to put up at least a PPG without Sam Bennett. Plenty of top-5 prospects have produced without help. That's no excuse for Crouse's dreadful lack of production.

Plenty of scouts think he is a stud and clearly Hockey Canada sees that he is a very versatile. His game will translate easily and guys who have watched him long enough have seen they type of goals he can score and the impact he can make. I don't like the PPG argument with this particular prospect simply because he is much more than that. He will score a lot of goals in the NHL and will be a coaches dream.

 

[Dod93Cityt]

I'd rather have Barzel or Konecny at camp rather than Crouse, and even at this point, they didn't deserve a spot. I also thought Roy could've been invited, but that was a long shot.

 

[Dodospice]

Crouse is a coaches dream for sure, he can play anywhere in the lineup and will do it all. However, I'm not as high on him as others. As I get more viewings I suspect I will move him up into the top 10. I can't see top 5 yet, but it could happen I suppose.

 

[Zaddy]

The thing I'm worried about (well not really since I'm not canadian) is how well he'll do when playing against the best junior players in the world. Sure, you can argue that OHL is a good league in its own right but generally these underage players just doesn't have much impact no matter how highly regarded they are. Neither MacKinnon nor Drouin had any significant impact in their draft years nor did McDavid last year (yes, I'm aware he was a year younger) and all those guys are much, much more talented than Crouse. Bringing underage role players doesn't seem like a recipe for success. Then again, Anton Karlsson had quite an impact as an underage player for Sweden last year in a somewhat similar role, so what do I know. I just think HC are over-emphasizing on the role players yet again and will lack scoring if McDavid won't make it or is feeling his injury. I'd much rather give Strome or Marner a shot if I had to take a '97 born player. With their performances this year they definitely deserve a look in camp. They probably wouldn't make my team but still deserves a shot to show what they can bring, in my book anyway.

 

[86Habs]

The thing I'm worried about (well not really since I'm not canadian) is how well he'll do when playing against the best junior players in the world. Sure, you can argue that OHL is a good league in its own right but generally these underage players just doesn't have much impact no matter how highly regarded they are. Neither MacKinnon nor Drouin had any significant impact in their draft years nor did McDavid last year (yes, I'm aware he was a year younger) and all those guys are much, much more talented than Crouse. Bringing underage role players doesn't seem like a recipe for success. Then again, Anton Karlsson had quite an impact as an underage player for Sweden last year in a somewhat similar role, so what do I know. I just think HC are over-emphasizing on the role players yet again and will lack scoring if McDavid won't make it or is feeling his injury. I'd much rather give Strome or Marner a shot if I had to take a '97 born player. With their performances this year they definitely deserve a look in camp. They probably wouldn't make my team but still deserves a shot to show what they can bring, in my book anyway.

Drouin was actually one of our better forwards in 2013...second or third, IMO, behind Nugent-Hopkins and maybe Scheifele, depending on your view of him. I thought he had more of an impact that tournament than returnees (and draftees) Jenner, Strome and Huberdeau. MacKinnon was improperly utilized as a 4th line energy forward by Spott. McDavid was pretty good last year (considering his age), but didn't really distinguish himself in any way. Overall I agree with your premise though, and when we bring these underagers/draft eligibles we need to put them in a position to succeed.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Plenty of scouts think he is a stud and clearly Hockey Canada sees that he is a very versatile. His game will translate easily and guys who have watched him long enough have seen they type of goals he can score and the impact he can make. I don't like the PPG argument with this particular prospect simply because he is much more than that. He will score a lot of goals in the NHL and will be a coaches dream.

If he's such a stud, then answer me this: why isn't he scoring in the OHL?

I agree that Crouse is big and fast and strong and smart and versatile and great defensively and a coach's dream. But he sounds an awful lot like a future third liner. He's a player that any team would love to have, but also a player that no one should touch with a top-10 pick.

 

[member 147413]

1st in OHL scoring? Absolutely no chance he should be near this team!

TC doesn't like taking the leading OHL scorer.

 

[Plastic Joseph]

Certainly one of the more surprising ones, especially given the stats Strome and Marner are putting up in comparison.

I just hope Marner and Strome aren't in the NHL next year and were wondering why in heck they wern't good enough for the WJC ala Duclair last year.

 

[sniper81]

If he's such a stud, then answer me this: why isn't he scoring in the OHL?

I agree that Crouse is big and fast and strong and smart and versatile and great defensively and a coach's dream. But he sounds an awful lot like a future third liner. He's a player that any team would love to have, but also a player that no one should touch with a top-10 pick.

So where should he be ranked just out of curiosity. Again, I've seen him play a lot and have seen him score at the big level. Plenty of factors here, Bennett being hurt, Watson now breaking his foot, having pollsello as his centre,having a new coach who plays new systems etc. he has one of the hardest shots in this draft class, I'm not worried about his scoring at all.

 

[Juxtaposer]

So where should he be ranked just out of curiosity. Again, I've seen him play a lot and have seen him score at the big level. Plenty of factors here, Bennett being hurt, Watson now breaking his foot, having pollsello as his centre,having a new coach who plays new systems etc. he has one of the hardest shots in this draft class, I'm not worried about his scoring at all.

I'd have him 10-15. High floor, safe pick.

You certainly have seen him more than me so I'll defer to you, but I just have a lot of trouble reconciling why a player with 16 points in 24 games is consistently ranked top-5 in this insane draft.

 

[DJB]

Hockey Canada goofs it up again as usual.

 

[GuillaumeLetsundress*]

Hockey Canada goofs it up again as usual.

yes huge goof! inviting a player you dont agree with to camp! might as well pull the team from the tournament.

 

[sniper81]

I'd have him 10-15. High floor, safe pick.

You certainly have seen him more than me so I'll defer to you, but I just have a lot of trouble reconciling why a player with 16 points in 24 games is consistently ranked top-5 in this insane draft.

It's because of the way he plays the game, it's a very unique and intriguing package of size, smarts, excellent skating and edge work, high end shot that is heavy and elusive. he's a very solid possession player who understands that keeping the puck is better than just throwing it away. He can just effect the game in many different ways. His points will come, I've seen what he does with highly skilled linemates and I'm sold.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if Crouse is supposed to be a top-5 pick, he needs to put up at least a PPG without Sam Bennett. Plenty of top-5 prospects have produced without help. That's no excuse for Crouse's dreadful lack of production.

Most recent scouting lists don't have him as a top-5 pick, though. A lot of them have him in the 10 to 15 range. It's a rare list now to find him in the top-5. So I'm not sure why you keep referring to him as "supposed to be a top-5 pick", as if that's the consensus.

Also, while he's not tearing up the league, I wouldn't call it "dreadful lack of production". He's on pace for 34 goals, which isn't exactly bad for the type of player he projects to be. I view him as a potential Andrew Ladd-type, and that's what he's producing similar to.

 

[arsmaster*]

Most recent scouting lists don't have him as a top-5 pick, though. A lot of them have him in the 10 to 15 range. It's a rare list now to find him in the top-5. So I'm not sure why you keep referring to him as "supposed to be a top-5 pick", as if that's the consensus.

Also, while he's not tearing up the league, I wouldn't call it "dreadful lack of production". He's on pace for 34 goals, which isn't exactly bad for the type of player he projects to be. I view him as a potential Andrew Ladd-type, and that's what he's producing similar to.

Maybe the recent ones, but most people weight Bob Mackenzie's list the highest. He was 5th.

Sportsnet has him 8.

FC 7.

HP 6.

Mckeens 5.

ISS 9.

I haven't watched enough of Kingston this year to make comment, but he's pretty much locked into the top 10 and carries a pretty solid average of 7th overall between those 6 independent services, and people question that.

Seems strange to have a player not producing offense that high, and I realize he's a polished two way player with size, skating and skill, but I've yet to read a rationale for him being above some other guys in most rankings and why he was invited to this team over some other more seasoned CHL players who would likely fill the same roles (Nastasiuk...although he's pretty slow) or his fellow draft eligibles in Strome and Marner.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Maybe the recent ones, but most people weight Bob Mackenzie's list the highest. He was 5th.

Sportsnet has him 8.

FC 7.

HP 6.

Mckeens 5.

ISS 9.

I haven't watched enough of Kingston this year to make comment, but he's pretty much locked into the top 10 and carries a pretty solid average of 7th overall between those 6 independent services, and people question that.

Seems strange to have a player not producing offense that high, and I realize he's a polished two way player with size, skating and skill, but I've yet to read a rationale for him being above some other guys in most rankings and why he was invited to this team over some other more seasoned CHL players who would likely fill the same roles (Nastasiuk...although he's pretty slow) or his fellow draft eligibles in Strome and Marner.

Re: his lack of production

One thing to consider is Kingston, as a whole, hasn't been scoring much this season. And Crouse's linemates, in particular, were snake bitten for much of the year. Guys like Kujawinski (who only recently started scoring goals), Schutt, and McGlynn weren't exactly giving Crouse much opportunities to get assists because they were having a helluva time putting the puck in the net.

Re: his invite over other highly touted 2015 draft prospects

It could very well come down to style. Team Canada didn't invite him in hopes of him being one of the scorers on the top three lines. He's an outside shot at best, but if he somehow made the team he'd be playing a physical, defensive role on the 4th line. How many of Marner, Strome, etc. could you say could fill the role of energy forward with size who can crash and bang with the best of them, and play very strong defense?

 

[Juxtaposer]

Thanks for the scouting reports guys. I'd love for Crouse to make TC's 4th line so I get a chance to watch him more.

 

[Plastic Joseph]

Thanks for the scouting reports guys. I'd love for Crouse to make TC's 4th line so I get a chance to watch him more.

Yeah, that and because he'd probably be the least likely to score any points on NYE vs the US

 

[arsmaster*]

Yeah, that and because he'd probably be the least likely to score any points on NYE vs the US

I don't know, he might be more likely to score than set it up

 

[Juxtaposer]

Yeah, that and because he'd probably be the least likely to score any points on NYE vs the US

Well, that too.

 

[bert]

I'm really confused by why he's ranked so high. I get that he's big, I get that he's a good skater, I get that he's great defensively. But unless he puts the puck in the net more I don't see how those skills alone would make him be considered a top-5 pick by many scouts.

I mean, there were plenty of scouts who said that Nick Ritchie might be the most skilled players in last year's draft, but then he slipped to 10th overall and isn't having the best draft+1 season.

Watch him

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Generally, people complain that 17-year-olds don't get invited to the Canadian WJC camp enough. When they do get invited, it's generally because they put up really big numbers that are too hard to ignore and it really isn't surprising that they got invited. I can't remember the last time a 17-year-old was invited to camp where I really wasn't expecting it like Lawson Crouse has done. When was the last time a 17-year-old was invited to camp without anyone really seeing it coming? The only one I can think of is John McFarland but even then, he was a hyped prospect having gone first overall in the OHL Priority Selection.

can you recall every single WJC camp in history?

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Watch him

I've watched him pretty closely the last 2 years. I get why people like his game and I'm a fan of it too but I'd never pick him as early as some rankings have him going. It's not like he's an Eric Lindros or Rick Nash or any other superstar big guy with skill. His potential has him as a complimentary big man like Nathan Horton, Andrew Ladd, or at the very ceiling Milan Lucic.

I know 2 of those guys were top 4 picks but look how out of place Nathan Horton looks in that 2003 draft at #3 overall. If Crouse goes in the top 5-8ish like some rankings have him going I think it will look equally odd when there are a number of big timers drafted soon after him.

If I was picking in the second half of the first round I would be jumping all over him though.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

If he's such a stud, then answer me this: why isn't he scoring in the OHL?

I agree that Crouse is big and fast and strong and smart and versatile and great defensively and a coach's dream. But he sounds an awful lot like a future third liner. He's a player that any team would love to have, but also a player that no one should touch with a top-10 pick.

He's 27th in league scoring, so he is scoring at a 1st line level in his draft year. Its the assists that arent there.

 

[Dgill]

I'd rather have Barzel or Konecny at camp rather than Crouse, and even at this point, they didn't deserve a spot. I also thought Roy could've been invited, but that was a long shot.

We are talking Jeremy, not Nicolas, right?