LW Kyle Connor (2015, 17th, WPG) II

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You do realize the Big 10 as a conference is fairly new right? And some of its stronger teams have fallen off a cliff (yes Wisconsin, I'm looking at you, Minn has also been weaker than usual). The only UM players to have played in the Big 10 and in the NHL are Larkin, Hyman, and Di Giuseppe. So no, there isn't plenty of data to draw from.

And Copp, who wasn't quite a PPG down there.

But, Jets fans would be very excited if he produced like Larkin, who he has out scored quite a bit this year (I know Larkin was younger).

He's also been above a PPG I believe outside of the B10, which is still damn good.
 
And Copp, who wasn't quite a PPG down there.

But, Jets fans would be very excited if he produced like Larkin, who he has out scored quite a bit this year (I know Larkin was younger).

He's also been above a PPG I believe outside of the B10, which is still damn good.
I could see something like Larkin's year, but Larkin has also had a bit of luck in-regards to on-ice shooting percentage. My guess is he has a year similar to Ehlers if he's with the team the entire year, but I could easily see him starting in the AHL depending on how the draft goes. He's a great prospect and goes top 10 most likely in a re-draft, but I'd say the Big 10 NHLe numbers are pretty useless as even conferences with a track record they are a mess.
 
I had him #6 in my rankings last year. Not surprised he's had a great year, so jealous of the Jets they have had some great picks in the first round since they got the team.

Awesome to see him doing good, he should be a great NHL player.
 
I could see something like Larkin's year, but Larkin has also had a bit of luck in-regards to on-ice shooting percentage. My guess is he has a year similar to Ehlers if he's with the team the entire year, but I could easily see him starting in the AHL depending on how the draft goes. He's a great prospect and goes top 10 most likely in a re-draft, but I'd say the Big 10 NHLe numbers are pretty useless as even conferences with a track record they are a mess.

While I'm sure the AHL would be good for him, I'm just not sure he would want to leave the NCAA to play with the terrible Moose. Copp also should of went to the AHL for sure, but Chevy basically game him a spot.

I imagine if he signs with the Jets, it will be to play in the NHL next year.
 
While I'm sure the AHL would be good for him, I'm just not sure he would want to leave the NCAA to play with the terrible Moose. Copp also should of went to the AHL for sure, but Chevy basically game him a spot.

I imagine if he signs with the Jets, it will be to play in the NHL next year.
All ELCs are two way. I agree that he'll likely play in the NHL but there will be nothing stopping the Jets assigning him to the AHL if they choose to
 
I could see something like Larkin's year, but Larkin has also had a bit of luck in-regards to on-ice shooting percentage. My guess is he has a year similar to Ehlers if he's with the team the entire year, but I could easily see him starting in the AHL depending on how the draft goes. He's a great prospect and goes top 10 most likely in a re-draft, but I'd say the Big 10 NHLe numbers are pretty useless as even conferences with a track record they are a mess.

Larkin's 10.2 shooting percent is not luck in-regards to on-ice percentage. The NHL average is 9.2 and for a goal scorer Larkin's average is quite low. A redraft would have Connor in the top 6 in my opinion. A doubt a year in the AHL would do much for his development since he is already use to playing against older more physical players in the NCAA. If he would have gone to the CHL he would have likely benefited a year in the AHL since it is alot different playing against 16 and 17 year old players, than it is against 22 and 23 year old players.
 
Larkin's 10.2 shooting percent is not luck in-regards to on-ice percentage. The NHL average is 9.2 and for a goal scorer Larkin's average is quite low. A redraft would have Connor in the top 6 in my opinion. A doubt a year in the AHL would do much for his development since he is already use to playing against older more physical players in the NCAA. If he would have gone to the CHL he would have likely benefited a year in the AHL since it is alot different playing against 16 and 17 year old players, than it is against 22 and 23 year old players.
I doubt he goes top 6, I don't see him passing any of the top 5 and Provorov, plus Rantanen also has a strong case to stay ahead. League average is closer to 7.5 than 9.2, with only the most elite of players can keep it continually above 10 (think prime Crosby, 50 goal Stamkos etc), while not out of wack, it is far from being low.
 
While I'm sure the AHL would be good for him, I'm just not sure he would want to leave the NCAA to play with the terrible Moose. Copp also should of went to the AHL for sure, but Chevy basically game him a spot.

I imagine if he signs with the Jets, it will be to play in the NHL next year.

I agree that he won't sign without a verbal agreement from Chevy that he has a spot on the roster. Otherwise might as well stay another year.
 
Sample size is taken into account which is why not every league has a published NHLe. It seems the Big-10 makes the cut. With the number of highly regarded prospects that have been though Michigan and gone on directly to the NHL there seems to be plenty of data to make a comparison.



Not really. The QMJHL has more goals per game than the WHL but the WHL has a higher NHLe

Again, a league's NHLe depends heavily on who makes it to the NHL out of that league. It is not a perfect reflection of league strength relative to other leagues, except maybe in the case of the AHL.

And the fact some leagues/conferences don't have an NHLe formula doesn't mean the sample size for the Big Ten isn't small, which it definitely is. That's a prevalent problem in hockey analytics as a whole.
 
All ELCs are two way. I agree that he'll likely play in the NHL but there will be nothing stopping the Jets assigning him to the AHL if they choose to

You're not wrong, but I don't see the point of your post. What's contract status got to do with it? And the poster didn't appear to suggest the AHL was out of the question, simply that it was unlikely.
 
I doubt he goes top 6, I don't see him passing any of the top 5 and Provorov, plus Rantanen also has a strong case to stay ahead. League average is closer to 7.5 than 9.2, with only the most elite of players can keep it continually above 10 (think prime Crosby, 50 goal Stamkos etc), while not out of wack, it is far from being low.

That is your opinion but I doubt anyone would pass him up. If he was in the CHL he would easily be at double those points so that would put him pretty well as the highest scorer. It isnot 7.5, just google the words "nhl average shooting percentage" and you will see it is over 9.12. That is the average for everyone not just elite
 
It is funny how most people are saying he has the power in this decision. If I wanted to sign you to clean the sewage out of my septic field and would pay you almost 1 million to do it, and I'd sign you to do it for 3 years, you would jump at the opportunity and you'd thank me. He will sign because he will be shown a contract with more 0's than anybody he knows has ever seen.

The the money Kyle!
 
Pre-2015 draft, I had this pecking order for the Devils at 6th:

1. Connor
2. Barzal
3. Provorov

All 3 are having outstanding seasons.

I see Connor as being a longtime franchise player.
 
That is your opinion but I doubt anyone would pass him up. If he was in the CHL he would easily be at double those points so that would put him pretty well as the highest scorer. It isnot 7.5, just google the words "nhl average shooting percentage" and you will see it is over 9.12. That is the average for everyone not just elite
I'm pretty sure he gets passed over for McDavid, Eichel, Strome, Marner, Hanifin and Provorov, and most current rankings reflect this. And how do you think he'd put up double his rate? That is actually a joke, if you seriously think he would outproduce what McDavid and Crosby did, your delusional. Look at the numbers the best players who became Art Ross contenders put up in the CHL. Eichel put up very similar #'s to Connor in a harder conference and is getting out produced by McDavid by a sizable margin. Eichel also has a lower per minute rate than Mackinnon, Skinner, Hall, Tavares, Stamkos, and Kane did in their rookie years. Considering that in the 3 separate prospect lists released Connor is ahead of Marner on one, same with Rantanen and behind Provorov, and Strome on all, I'd say your opinion is in the minority.

The metric of team on-ice shooting percentage only uses play at even strength which is why the average benchmark is 7.5%. And leagues average shooting percentage was 8.9%. Larkin is at 10.4 which is a above average by about 3% points.

Edit: For example look at what Fabbri and Domi are doing, and neither scored at a rate like Marner or Strome have the last 2 years, but both are producing a point for every 25 minutes of ice time.
 
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Double the points = double the rate.

Huh.

Yeah, I definitely inferred from his posts he meant Connor would put up 3.0+PPG.
Well what else is there to go off of? That he'd put up 142 in a full OHL season? That would basically be .05 more ppg than Marner, and .12 more than Strome, and I highly doubt he would do that, with both only being in there 3rd year of junior, it would be Connors 4th.
 
Well what else is there to go off of? That he'd put up 142 in a full OHL season? That would basically be .05 more ppg than Marner, and .12 more than Strome, and I highly doubt he would do that, with both only being in there 3rd year of junior, it would be Connors 4th.

Connor put up 71 points in 38 games playing against players whose average age is 22.6 years old players. The CHL season is what 68 games... So if he continued on at the same rate he would be at 127 points ( which yes is higher than mcdavids rate). My guess is that he would have scored at a higher rate in the CHL where the average age is 17.6 years old. I would suggest not using marner as a person to set the bar to, that would likely be too low.
 
I'm pretty sure he gets passed over for McDavid, Eichel, Strome, Marner, Hanifin and Provorov, and most current rankings reflect this. And how do you think he'd put up double his rate? That is actually a joke, if you seriously think he would outproduce what McDavid and Crosby did, your delusional. Look at the numbers the best players who became Art Ross contenders put up in the CHL. Eichel put up very similar #'s to Connor in a harder conference and is getting out produced by McDavid by a sizable margin. Eichel also has a lower per minute rate than Mackinnon, Skinner, Hall, Tavares, Stamkos, and Kane did in their rookie years. Considering that in the 3 separate prospect lists released Connor is ahead of Marner on one, same with Rantanen and behind Provorov, and Strome on all, I'd say your opinion is in the minority.

The metric of team on-ice shooting percentage only uses play at even strength which is why the average benchmark is 7.5%. And leagues average shooting percentage was 8.9%. Larkin is at 10.4 which is a above average by about 3% points.

Edit: For example look at what Fabbri and Domi are doing, and neither scored at a rate like Marner or Strome have the last 2 years, but both are producing a point for every 25 minutes of ice time.

Larkins 10.2 is overall rating. If you are going to break down your comparisons to situational do it for larkins numbers too otherwise you aren't comparing apples to apples.
 
Connor put up 71 points in 38 games playing against players whose average age is 22.6 years old players. The CHL season is what 68 games... So if he continued on at the same rate he would be at 127 points ( which yes is higher than mcdavids rate). My guess is that he would have scored at a higher rate in the CHL where the average age is 17.6 years old. I would suggest not using marner as a person to set the bar to, that would likely be too low.
Look at the list of guys who've broken 2 ppg in the OHL for consecutive years in the last 20 years, its just Marner and Tavares. While the NCAA has older players, way more high end talent goes the OHL route when compared to the Big 10. Explain to me how guys who scored at a lesser rate to Marner and Strome in Fabbri and Domi are scoring at a more efficient rate than Eichel who had similar numbers to Connor but in a significantly harder conference. I highly doubt Connor can top what guys like Tavares and Hall did in there 18 year old OHL seasons, which Marner and Strome have done. How many top 5 scorers has the NCAA produced in the last 10 years, off the top of my head its St Louis and Parise, compare that to the OHL who currently have 2 of the top 5 scorers in the league. Plus Connor would be in his last year, both Marner and Strome are only in there 3rd year of junior hockey. Plus if your going by points vs advanced competition shouldn't Rantanen and Aho, maybe even Kaprizov pass Marner, Strome and Connor?

Even if you don't want Marner as a bench mark, what about Taylor Hall, Seguin, Tavares, Stamkos? Your seriously underrating how hard it is to break the 2ppg barrier in the OHL, while overrating the Big 10 and College hockey.
 
Larkins 10.2 is overall rating. If you are going to break down your comparisons to situational do it for larkins numbers too otherwise you aren't comparing apples to apples.
Larkins even strength team on-ice shooting% at even strength is 10.4, at 5 on 5 its 9.3%. 10.2 is just his regular shooting percentage, I am not talking about that at all. Read this, it explains how team on-ice shooting % has predictive qualities.

http://www.tsn.ca/examining-on-ice-shooting-percentage-by-position-1.338499
 
Look at the list of guys who've broken 2 ppg in the OHL for consecutive years in the last 20 years, its just Marner and Tavares. While the NCAA has older players, way more high end talent goes the OHL route when compared to the Big 10. Explain to me how guys who scored at a lesser rate to Marner and Strome in Fabbri and Domi are scoring at a more efficient rate than Eichel who had similar numbers to Connor but in a significantly harder conference. I highly doubt Connor can top what guys like Tavares and Hall did in there 18 year old OHL seasons, which Marner and Strome have done. How many top 5 scorers has the NCAA produced in the last 10 years, off the top of my head its St Louis and Parise, compare that to the OHL who currently have 2 of the top 5 scorers in the league. Plus Connor would be in his last year, both Marner and Strome are only in there 3rd year of junior hockey. Plus if your going by points vs advanced competition shouldn't Rantanen and Aho, maybe even Kaprizov pass Marner, Strome and Connor?

Even if you don't want Marner as a bench mark, what about Taylor Hall, Seguin, Tavares, Stamkos? Your seriously underrating how hard it is to break the 2ppg barrier in the OHL, while overrating the Big 10 and College hockey.

How many players have hit 2 PPG in one year and are still in the OHL the following year? I haven't dug through any stats, but I wouldn't think it would be a very large group.
 
Look at the list of guys who've broken 2 ppg in the OHL for consecutive years in the last 20 years, its just Marner and Tavares. While the NCAA has older players, way more high end talent goes the OHL route when compared to the Big 10. Explain to me how guys who scored at a lesser rate to Marner and Strome in Fabbri and Domi are scoring at a more efficient rate than Eichel who had similar numbers to Connor but in a significantly harder conference. I highly doubt Connor can top what guys like Tavares and Hall did in there 18 year old OHL seasons, which Marner and Strome have done. How many top 5 scorers has the NCAA produced in the last 10 years, off the top of my head its St Louis and Parise, compare that to the OHL who currently have 2 of the top 5 scorers in the league. Plus Connor would be in his last year, both Marner and Strome are only in there 3rd year of junior hockey. Plus if your going by points vs advanced competition shouldn't Rantanen and Aho, maybe even Kaprizov pass Marner, Strome and Connor?

Even if you don't want Marner as a bench mark, what about Taylor Hall, Seguin, Tavares, Stamkos? Your seriously underrating how hard it is to break the 2ppg barrier in the OHL, while overrating the Big 10 and College hockey.

If you are basing your argument on players who have put up those numbers in the past, then you again have to compare apples to apples. Who in NCAA history has put up numbers like Connor did as a freshman? Paul kariya and eichel. That is it.

I don't think you have watched too many NCAA games if you think CHL players play at a higher standard. Look at the results of some of the NCAA games vs CIS teams who are made up mostly ex-CHL players who are collecting on the scholarships from the CHL. I can't remember a game where the CIS has won.

Look at tkachuk who scored at a lesser rate than Connor at the same age in the USHL. He put up 107 points this year. You are jaded if think Connor wouldn't score at a higher rate than him if he was in the CHL.

Connor just turned 19. Why would he be in his 4th year unless he was granted exceptional status? He would play16-17 (one year), 17-18 (two years) and 18-19 (this year is third)
 
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How many players have hit 2 PPG in one year and are still in the OHL the following year? I haven't dug through any stats, but I wouldn't think it would be a very large group.
I'll just use the last 20 years because as we all know scoring in the 80's and early 90's was insane and only including guys who played at least 45 games. Jason Spezza, Marc Savard, Tavares (failed to do it in his 18 year old year, did it at 16 and 17), and Cory Locke. Guys like Gagner (on Kane's line), Kane, Thornton and McDavid did it and could of gone back. Notice there are a bunch of all star players who played in the OHL and didn't hit this bench mark once (Stamkos, Hall, Seguin, and Bobby Ryan) and a couple stars didn't do it til their 19 year old year (Cory Perry).

So, to say Connor would easily score at the pace that poster suggested is over the top, very few if any players score like the pace suggested in their draft or draft+1 year unless they are McDavid or Pat Kane.
 
If you are basing your argument on players who have put up those numbers in the past, then you again have to compare apples to apples. Who in NCAA history has put up numbers like Connor did as a freshman? Paul kariya and eichel. That is it.

I don't think you have watched too many NCAA games if you think CHL players play at a higher standard. Look at the results of some of the NCAA games vs CIS teams who are made up mostly ex-CHL players who are collecting on the scholarships from the CHL. I can't remember a game where the CIS has won.

Look at tkachuk who scored at a lesser rate than Connor at the same age in the USHL. He put up 107 points this year. You are jaded if think Connor wouldn't score at a higher rate than him if he was in the CHL.

Connor just turned 19. Why would he be in his 4th year unless he was granted exceptional status? He would play16-17 (one year), 17-18 (two years) and 18-19 (this year is third)
He'd be in his 4th year, he's a 96 birth year, do you even follow the CHL? How do you not know eligibility is determined by birth year? Next year he'd be an overager. And I'm not saying the quality is higher, just that more high end offensive talent comes through the OHL, which is true. Until Eichel no top forward prospect had gone the NCAA route since JVR, Turris and Toews (none who became elite scorers at the NHL level), the best point producers to play in the NCAA were Kessel and Parise, Gaudreau is also a decent baseline (but again another hockey east guy and hit 2ppg as a junior), so there are very few top scorers to compare #'s with, and for the Big 10 a baseline is basically non-existent.

And Tkachuk is a terrible comparable, maybe if you put Connor on Marner and Dvorak's line his numbers would be McDavid or Kane level, but so would Marner's and Dvorak's. Tkachuk heavily relies on secondary assists having 41 of them to guys like Marner (only 25) or Strome (only 28). Plus, comparing guys from the USNDP to regular USHL guys is not a good idea. But if you want to go that route look at Sonny Milano, who averaged more ppg than Connor in the USHL and put up 1.36 in the OHL. Now Milano situation was the opposites of Tkachuk.
 
Look at the list of guys who've broken 2 ppg in the OHL for consecutive years in the last 20 years, its just Marner and Tavares. While the NCAA has older players, way more high end talent goes the OHL route when compared to the Big 10. Explain to me how guys who scored at a lesser rate to Marner and Strome in Fabbri and Domi are scoring at a more efficient rate than Eichel who had similar numbers to Connor but in a significantly harder conference. I highly doubt Connor can top what guys like Tavares and Hall did in there 18 year old OHL seasons, which Marner and Strome have done. How many top 5 scorers has the NCAA produced in the last 10 years, off the top of my head its St Louis and Parise, compare that to the OHL who currently have 2 of the top 5 scorers in the league. Plus Connor would be in his last year, both Marner and Strome are only in there 3rd year of junior hockey. Plus if your going by points vs advanced competition shouldn't Rantanen and Aho, maybe even Kaprizov pass Marner, Strome and Connor?

Even if you don't want Marner as a bench mark, what about Taylor Hall, Seguin, Tavares, Stamkos? Your seriously underrating how hard it is to break the 2ppg barrier in the OHL, while overrating the Big 10 and College hockey.

Plus if your going by points vs advanced competition shouldn't Rantanen and Aho, maybe even Kaprizov pass Marner, Strome and Connor?

As for the how many top scorers the ncaa produced, that doesn't mean it's an easier league. It's much tougher to score against a team of 23 year olds who are physical and know how to play defense than a team of 18 year olds who are all skilled but have much more room to develop and are not yet mature.

Also, guys like Hall, stamkos, and even tavares didn't have two other guys with over 100points on their teams. Marner may well be the one driving the offense (I believe he is because he is a spectacular prospect), but it helps a lot when you have domi/dvorak/tkachuk who can help out.

Connor's linemates are overage guys who never really produced at a high rate until Connor joined them. Marner is the better prospect, it's why he was picked 4th overall in a strong draft, but people need to realize that Connor should definitely be in the conversation for top prospects and there are aspects of his season that have been more impressive than marners just as there are aspects of marners season that stand out more than Connor's.

Also, what Connor is doing in the NCAA is still more impressive than what Kaprizov, Aho, and maybe (not sure yet) even Rantanen have done. Yes they have all taken huge steps forward in development but their production in the leagues still isn't quite as dominant as what Connor has done
 
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