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LW Kristian Vesalainen (2017, 24th, WPG)

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Hockeyisl1fe said:
For all saying his U18 performance doesn't matter because Pulkkinen and Rajala both busted, here's top 10 scorers in the u18 in order: Kucherov, Rajala, Ovechkin, Grigorenko, Kessel, W. Nylander, Zakharov, Kovalchuk, Pulkkinen, Matthews. Rajala, Zakharov and Pulkkinen were all later round picks so they weren't seen as high of prospects to begin with. Grigorenko is the only one there who could suggest u18 don't matter in Vesalainen's case, however there are 6 other who have been "pretty" good in the NHL too. Your argument is laughable for the tournament not suggesting anything when it comes to top tier prospects.
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The great old Pulkks didn't work out because of his small size and his hockey IQ isn't good enough to make up for it. Not to mention he is pretty bad at playing defense for the NHL.
Good thing this Kristian kid is pretty damn big. So I do believe his u18 stats mean something. Might not be top 10 or even top 15 for that matter, but I think he has a better chance to succeed in the NHL than Pulkkinen ever did.
 
http://www.eliteprospects.com/leagu...eagueteam=&teamname=&nation=&nationname=&age= here is a full list of top scorers in the u18. Let's say he scores 1 more point (not totally unreasonable) and he is in the top 20, while knocking Clayton Keller out. Let's see who busted from those: Johan Larsson (undrafted), Kevin Romy (picked in later rounds), Patrick O'Sullivan (had actually a few good seasons, picked in 2nd round), Pulkkinen (picked in later rounds) and Rajala (picked in later rounds). The ones who dissappointed, but were picked in the first round: Grigorenko and Kostitsyn. Kostitsyn was good in a couple of seasons. The odds are in favor for Vesalainen turning just fine solely based on his production in this tournament. But whatever, u18 is meaningless.
 
BusQuets said:
He was a 4th round pick. Vesalainen and Matthews are both 1st rounders.
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He was, after having 2 great u18 tournaments. Which is why I find it funny that some people are suddenly talking about Vesalainen like a top 5-10 pick despite him having a very mediocre year in SHL, Swedish u20 and SM-Liiga.
 
bottomofthefoodchain said:
He was, after having 2 great u18 tournaments. Which is why I find it funny that some people are suddenly talking about Vesalainen like a top 5-10 pick despite him having a very mediocre year in SHL, Swedish u20 and SM-Liiga.
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Finland overvalues their prospects
He was garbage in sweden this year and now suddenly he is top3? Lol
 
bottomofthefoodchain said:
He was, after having 2 great u18 tournaments. Which is why I find it funny that some people are suddenly talking about Vesalainen like a top 5-10 pick despite him having a very mediocre year in SHL, Swedish u20 and SM-Liiga.
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Tell me a one 99-born forward this season who has been producing in the SHL, FEL or KHL? Yeah, but lets completely disregard the fact that he was almost scoring at PPG rate last season is superelit. He might have had a supbar season, but he is for god sakes a june born draftee. He was ranked in the top 15 before the season started and now he is showing everyone why that was the case.
 
Bloomfield said:
Finland overvalues their prospects
He was garbage in sweden this year and now suddenly he is top3? Lol
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I have only seen one claiming he is a top3 prospect; Grant McCagg (a former headscout for McKeen's). Not that I agree with him, but he absolutely should be in top 15.
 
Hockeyisl1fe said:
Tell me a one 99-born forward this season who has been producing in the SHL, FEL or KHL? Yeah, but lets completely disregard the fact that he was almost scoring at PPG rate last season is superelit. He might have had a supbar season, but he is for god sakes a june born draftee. He was ranked in the top 15 before the season started and now he is showing everyone why that was the case.
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J18 modo totally shut him down.
 
bottomofthefoodchain said:
He was, after having 2 great u18 tournaments. Which is why I find it funny that some people are suddenly talking about Vesalainen like a top 5-10 pick despite him having a very mediocre year in SHL, Swedish u20 and SM-Liiga.
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Because every drafting agency has him in the 1st round. Guy like Pulkkinen had clear shortcomings making him 4th round pick despite his great junior tournaments showings. Vesalainen does not share those shortcomings which shows in his draft stock. This is why comparing Vesalainen to Pulkkinen is more ridiculous than comparing him to the other 1st round caliber players that had great junior tournament. You're showing your bias there.
 
He's been so up and down this year, last year he was easily a top 10 talent, in the beginning of the year he started to fall and people had him around 10-25 and then later on near the spring some people had him mid to late second and now I saw one list with him at 3. Wtf
 
Bloomfield said:
Finland overvalues their prospects
He was garbage in sweden this year and now suddenly he is top3? Lol
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We Finns won't be picking.

I don't want to see him as a top pick, but with your point Liljegren should be a 2nd rounder.
 
Bloomfield said:
Liljegren hasnt been good at all. Might be late.first
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Exactly, so why on earth Vesalainen who has actually shown some capability to play hockey in the u18 would not be a top 15 pick? Not to mention he is far more safer bet than Liljegren, whose game revolves around productivity (quite the opposite case for Vesalainen).
 
Hockeyisl1fe said:
Exactly, so why on earth Vesalainen who has actually shown some capability to play hockey in the u18 would not be a top 15 pick? Not to mention he is far more safer bet than Liljegren, whose game revolves around productivity (quite the opposite case for Vesalainen).
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Last year liljegren was excellent at u18. So cant put that much stock in it
 
Bloomfield said:
Last year liljegren was excellent at u18. So cant put that much stock in it
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First of all; you're comparing an offensive dman to a 2way forward. Secondly; check my post of all-time u18 scoring forwards (#252). The odds are favoring Vesalainen to turn out to be a good NHLer. You can absolutely put some stock in the u18 if a player is seen as a first-round talent.
 
Curious how people would compare him and Robertson? Both big bodied LW's that seem to be rising in the rankings.
 
One poster in particular is oscillating between criticizing small sample sizes and then employing nothing but anecdotal arguments, mixing in generalizing personal attacks and crucifying logic in the process in a desperate attempt to discredit Vesalainen. To keep things cordial I'll just say I think it's a very bad look.

He looks like a good kid. My team should get a pretty high lottery pick so I wouldn't necessarily want him but whatever team gets him will be all the better for it.
 
I'd definitely caution anyone overrated a player because of a single tournament especially Hlinka or WJ18's. I could see it maybe if they are tearing up the WJC's in their draft year on top of some great league play. This is exactly what happened to Kostin at the beginning of the season after his Hlinka run.
 
Vesalainen and young Rick Nash
very similar in size,style...skill level??????.

Altough,Kristian is more responsible on d-zone
than Rick,but otherweise,i'd say Rick Nash.

Vesalainen is only 17,finns usually start slowly
and finish strong,he might not have the same
physic as Nash did,but theres the entire summer
and next season to gain the needed pounds,muscles.
 
pckstpr31 said:
Curious how people would compare him and Robertson? Both big bodied LW's that seem to be rising in the rankings.
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Robertson's hockey sense is much better. It's the one asset that makes him so special. Kid thinks the game at a very high level. Vesalainen, on the other hand, makes some real questionable decisions at times.

I have Robertson in the top 10 and Vesalainen in the 10-20 range.
 
BusQuets said:
Because every drafting agency has him in the 1st round. Guy like Pulkkinen had clear shortcomings making him 4th round pick despite his great junior tournaments showings. Vesalainen does not share those shortcomings which shows in his draft stock. This is why comparing Vesalainen to Pulkkinen is more ridiculous than comparing him to the other 1st round caliber players that had great junior tournament. You're showing your bias there.
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Late 1st yes. Which he still is, not top 10
 
bottomofthefoodchain said:
Late 1st yes. Which he still is, not top 10
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And you know this how? Meaning, what other final/recent lists have we seen than McCagg's (who actually has him #3)?

In a draft dominated by centers and defenders, with little to none true two-way power forward wingers of which Vesalainen seems to have the tools for, there are teams weak on the wings and looking for wingers. That puts Vesalainen in a good position and I certainly don't think he's on the bottom of first round anymore. U18 is where prospects can raise their stock value if their seasons have gone south and in this particular case, he's been arguably the best forward of the tournament. If anything I'd be surprised if he fell further than #15. If you look at the other highly touted scoring wingers there are Tippett (who's not exactly known for his two-way game) and Tolvanen (who can score, but isn't the biggest nor the fastest). Some teams for sure has him over either one or even both by now.
 
I would take him probably somewhere around 10-15 and that's probably just because of my nationality and recency bias.
 
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