LW Anthony Mantha (2013, 20th, DET) II

[GoAwayDanCleary]

His defense isn't that bad, and it will improve with age, not a big deal at his age. He does play on the PK, and has actually PKed some 5-on-3's this series. Floating tends to find him the soft spots in the offensive zone, so I don't see why its a big deal. When he controls the puck he has a slow pace and really slows down the game. He's very good with and without the puck.

 

[Mathletic]

Having been in the stands for 3 of the 5 games so far (on top of seasons' worth of following the league), you're right, they're wrong. Mantha hardly touches the puck inside his own side of the red line, and is pretty much always the first forward leaving the zone on the rush. Neutral zone execution in the Q in general isn't that great, so most of the pucks don't even get to him, and it's not like you'll see him put his head down to get back the other way; not like Drouin, or anyone on the Mooseheads, honestly. But damn, any time he gets enough space to get any kind of a shot off, you think it's going to go in. Probably finishes less of his checking opportunities than anyone his size that you'll see around the league, though.

I agree on the checking part. Some might not like that Mantha will rarely finish his checks. Personally, I think the "finishing" your checks concept is pretty ridiculous to being with. Most of the time all it leads to is getting you out of the play.

As for the defensive play. Mantha is a winger. Although I'll argue that he's better than some say he is. I think defensive play from wingers is rather overrated to begin with. If you were in the stands don't tell me you didn't see him in the first 2 games clearing the zone late in games anytime the puck was around him. He cut a bunch of passes when the play was around him. Also, as a winger, I don't expect Mantha to be at the heart of the play. It's the center's job mostly to do this. So, it's not unexpected to see Drouin more involved defensively than Mantha. When Mantha took shifts as a centerman during the regular season, he was obviously more involved in the play.

Besides, in the last game it was pretty clear to me that Mantha was one of few Foreurs who didn't seem to struggle guarding Drouin. Kid used his long reach on at least 3 occasions to pick off Doruin. Almost went on a breakaway on one of those occasions. Mantha also reads the play pretty well defensively. Especially if it leads to offense the other way . Early in the game he cut a pass to go on a breakaway and it's not rare seeing him do that. Same for blocking shots. I don't think I've ever seen him lay on the ice to block a shot. But how many times have I seen him block shots and go the other way on a breakaway.

Same in the offensive zone. He must have forced 2 or 3 turnovers in the Mooseheads zone using his reach to steal pucks from defenders. I'll admit that he's not a defensive force. But don't tell me he doesn't try. It's one thing to say he doesn't go gung-ho at anyone with the puck. But the results still aren't that bad when you take into consideration the turnovers he can force.

 

[Petes2424]

His defense isn't that bad, and it will improve with age, not a big deal at his age. He does play on the PK, and has actually PKed some 5-on-3's this series. Floating tends to find him the soft spots in the offensive zone, so I don't see why its a big deal. When he controls the puck he has a slow pace and really slows down the game. He's very good with and without the puck.

The floating tag goes hand in hand with guys who find the seams, play in lanes, etc. it's what a lot of scorers do. Unless the Wings sign a Vanek or even a Gaborik, it's looking more and more like Mantha is going to get legitimate time in Detroit's top six next year. They are in dire need of a finisher.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I agree on the checking part. Some might not like that Mantha will rarely finish his checks. Personally, I think the "finishing" your checks concept is pretty ridiculous to being with. Most of the time all it leads to is getting you out of the play.

But it's also about not giving the other team the time and space they need to play their game, and being harder to play against. Effects of body contact accumulate, especially over a playoff series. Someone his size could certainly contribute a LOT more to that cause. Also, when I see a junior player that seems THAT disinterested in body contact, I start suspecting that even with a big frame there will be a significant "wake-up call"/adjustment dealing with the physicality of the NHL.

As for the defensive play. Mantha is a winger. Although I'll argue that he's better than some say he is. I think defensive play from wingers is rather overrated to begin with. If you were in the stands don't tell me you didn't see him in the first 2 games clearing the zone late in games anytime the puck was around him. He cut a bunch of passes when the play was around him. Also, as a winger, I don't expect Mantha to be at the heart of the play. It's the center's job mostly to do this. So, it's not unexpected to see Drouin more involved defensively than Mantha. When Mantha took shifts as a centerman during the regular season, he was obviously more involved in the play.

Besides, in the last game it was pretty clear to me that Mantha was one of few Foreurs who didn't seem to struggle guarding Drouin. Kid used his long reach on at least 3 occasions to pick off Doruin. Almost went on a breakaway on one of those occasions. Mantha also reads the play pretty well defensively. Especially if it leads to offense the other way . Early in the game he cut a pass to go on a breakaway and it's not rare seeing him do that. Same for blocking shots. I don't think I've ever seen him lay on the ice to block a shot. But how many times have I seen him block shots and go the other way on a breakaway.

Same in the offensive zone. He must have forced 2 or 3 turnovers in the Mooseheads zone using his reach to steal pucks from defenders. I'll admit that he's not a defensive force. But don't tell me he doesn't try. It's one thing to say he doesn't go gung-ho at anyone with the puck. But the results still aren't that bad when you take into consideration the turnovers he can force.

I'm just going to agree with most of this. I already have, in fact, by highlighting that most of what I'd consider "defensive deficiency" is observed in the defensive half of the ice - not the offensive half. You're right that his reach, anticipation, etc, make him a decently capable forechecker (in the offensive half, obviously)... but defensemen don't exactly get punished in his corner, for example, and more often than not his "back-checking" ends with him simply gliding his way back to his outlet pass receiving area on the boards between the blue and red lines. This isn't about comparison to Drouin either, obviously. Compare Mantha's back-checking to a winger like Ehlers, instead. Or don't, because there isn't much for comparison there, either.

 

[Mathletic]

I was asked to answer some questions about Mantha on a different board, so thought I'd post my season recap on him. Even if his season's not over yet, not much should change until then anyways.

Based on CSS's checklist

http://centralscouting.nhl.com/link3/cs/content.nsf/0/C2B236BDEAF9A956852575D00063D719/$FILE/NHL%20Central%20Scouting%20-%20Forward%20Checklist.pdf

Excellent: 9-10 ... one of the best prospects in this regard
Very good: 7-8 ... better than most
Good: 5-6 ... not a strength nor weakness
Average: 3-4 ... needs work
Poor: 1-2 ... below average
Not applicable: NA

Anthony Mantha, RW, Val d'Or Foreurs (2013 draft, 20th overall, Detroit Red Wings)

Skating

Accelaration: 7.0 ... excellent for a big man, very good overall
Speed: 7.0 ... able to create separation or maintain distance from blueline to blueline
Balance: 7.0 ... hard to knock down
Mobility: 7.0 ... tall rangy kid yet pretty mobile
Backward skating: NA

Puck Skills

Shot accuracy: 10.0 ... doesn't get any better. Can hit corners like nobody else
Shot strength: 9.0 ... still a very strong shot but rarely goes for the rocket
Shot release: 9.5 ... doesn't need a ton of room to release some solid wristers
Posesses multiple type shots: 10.0 ... wristers, one-timers, slappers, smart shots through traffic. Has it all.
Stickhandling ability: 6.5 ... could improve as a tall rangy kid
Puck protection: 7.5 ... needs to be more consistent. At times, can't take the puck away from him.
Faceoffs: 5.0 ... will never be a top faceoff man but can take draws when need be
Giving a pass: 9.5 ... one of the best playmakers in the league. Underrated in that part of the game.
Receiving a pass: 9.0 ... reads the play well and is open for clean passes
Scoring touch: 10.0 ... no need to add anything here. Doesn't get better than that.

Competitiveness

Scoring drive: 9.5 ... underrated part of the game in a way. Knocked for not paying the price but has screened quite a few goalies this year. Especially in the playoffs. Most goals have come from loose pucks, rebounds, screens and that sort of thing
Work ethic: 7.5 ... I'd say underrated as well. Kid wants to learn. Was praised by Sutter and Team Canada's staff for wanting to learn and asking questions in specific areas of need (like defense). Set goals for himself at the start of the year (per his head coach). Come to Wings camp in good shape and show he belongs. Work on his consistency, defensive play, and board work. Help his team be a contender. Earn a spot at the U20.
Attitude: 8.0 ... positive kid. Was knocked by a good number of teams at the combine but turned it in a positive this season. Mature kid
Consistency: 9.0 ... doesn't get more consistent this year. Only area of work would be backchecking
Forechecking: 6.5 ... very good at picking d-men off from behind and using his reach to force turnovers. Not your typical forechecker however. Doesn't go first and try to hit anything that moves. Can create havoc at times on the PK.

Physical Play

Board and corner play: 7.0 ... hard to knock off the puck at times. Won't do the dirty work on a consistent basis
Pysical presence: 6.0 ... not a physical player per say. However, he can create great screens in front of goalies and keep the puck along the board. More in the hitting part
Conditioning: 9.0 ... one of the best at the combine last year in V02Max tests
Hitting: 5.0 ... can hit hard but not in his genes to be a physical force out there. Doesn't finish his checks. My personal opinion on this subject is that the "finishing your checks" is a rather overrated concept in hockey. Most of the time you only take yourself out of the play
Fighting: 6.0 ... won't be a fighter but can drop the gloves at times. Looked good against non-fighters

Hockey Sense

Playmaking: 9.0 ... excellent, underrated part of his game. Likes to slow down the play and draw the attention from the other team. Will find the open man at ease and set guys on great scoring chances
Anticipation: 9.5 ... reads the play very well
Discipline: 5.0 ... could improve in that area. Though most of the time, it leads to double-minors. Has to be smarter about being taken out of the play by lesser opponents
Decision making: 9.0 ... excellent. Won't always go for the big slap shot. Can make those precise shots that find their way through traffic. Doesn't put his team in trouble defensively. Actually used on the PK and late in games to kill time. Uses his size and reach to cut passes and clearing the puck out of the zone effectively
Play under pressure: 7.0 ... like anybody else, if you get in his kitchen the whole game, he'll obviously be less effective. Still very good as we're seeing in the playoffs
Versatility: 8.0 ... can play wing, center, ES, PP, PK, late-game situations. Won't ever be a Selke nominee but still effective in many areas of the game

Defensive Play

Defensive anticipation: 7.0 ... very good, cuts passes and goes on breakways pretty regularly. Doesn't struggle guarding Drouin, doesn't overplay him and bite on his every move
Positioning: 6.0 ... improved quite a bit on this. Has gone from a headless chicken to a pretty smart winger who can come and help his d when needed
Backchecking: 4.5 ... could still improve on this. Though shorter shifts would help him on that. Can get caught deeep in the offensive zone
Defensive reliability: 6.5 ... won't lay on the ice to block shots but will cut passes and anticipate the play well. Clears the zone at ease

Psychological Factors

Leadership: 7.0 ... has led by example. Worked on his deficiencies. Has taken charge of the team and led Val d'Or to where they are today
Communication: 7.0
Confidence: 9.0 ... has answered his critics with a strong year and improved on various deficiencies. Went unphased and produced when being labeled as a bubble guy at the U20

Player Summary: What Type of Player Is He?

Tweener, somewhere in between skilled and power forward. Definately not a Brendan Shanahan type but more gritty and physically involved than Kessel say. Honest expectations would be a player within the range of Lupul, Neal, Carter, Benn and those kinds of guys.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I was asked to answer some questions about Mantha on a different board, so thought I'd post my season recap on him.

Based on how many live viewings, would you say?

 

[Mathletic]

Based on how many live viewings, would you say?

tough to tell, probably a good 35 games this year online and on tv. Maybe more, maybe less. Sometimes I only watched parts of games. So, depends what you include. Saw him live twice.

 

[P0LiUM]

Mantha is a phenomenal goal scorer, but after limited viewings (4 this year in person, + WJ games) I honestly think he'll need some time in the AHL. His ability to one-step defenders at the Q level is great, and he always seems to be in position to make that move, but I really, really haven't seen him play much defence.

You never notice him playing, until he's somehow on a break. That's a huge talent to have, but I don't know how well it translates to the NHL where defenders are usually better at picking guys like that up.

Trying my hardest to be unbiased, considering the circumstances right now.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Saw him live twice.

This is the only part that matters. Can't watch a player away from the puck on TV.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

This is the only part that matters. Can't watch a player away from the puck on TV.

So true...I hate it because all the other players and plays are blacked out on TV. The only time when you can see the player is when he has the puck, damn technology.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

He's a 19YO winger, his defense will come around. Not really a big deal when he's scoring at his rate.

 

[JAVO16]

Great scouting report, Mathletic ! Do you have more of those for players to be drafted ?

 

[Tatar Shots]

Great post Mathletic. Always enjoy your Mantha updates.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

So true...I hate it because all the other players and plays are blacked out on TV. The only time when you can see the player is when he has the puck, damn technology.

Those players aren't blacked out, that's the beveled edge of your TV. I'm sure you've noticed, but there's a limit to the field of view that cameras are able to capture and broadcast at one time, and that the various angles they coordinate often prevent much being seen outside a fairly narrow radius around the puck.

 

[tfong]

Good, I would love a Neal like player on the wings

 

[newfy]

Those players aren't blacked out, that's the beveled edge of your TV. I'm sure you've noticed, but there's a limit to the field of view that cameras are able to capture and broadcast at one time, and that the various angles they coordinate often prevent much being seen outside a fairly narrow radius around the puck.

Youre kidding right? I've got a pretty good idea of NHL teams players from watching on TV most of the time. You literally reach every time you can to knock Mantha. Mathletic has seen him almost 40 times and you think thats not good enough to get an idea of how he plays and how good he is at certain aspects. Ive got news for you, when the puck is in the offensive zone, the TV generally shows the entire zone. You can see the play developing and all that. Same goes for the defensive zone.

You cant see way behind the play as well as you can live but get off your high horse lol. The guy took the time to write up that scouting report based on almost 40 games of viewing and you say it doesnt matter because only a couple were live

 

[nbwingsfan]

This is the only part that matters. Can't watch a player away from the puck on TV.

Even though your logic is incredibly flawed.. I'll second everything he had to say in his scouting report.

Ive seen him about 35 times this year (including WJC), 15 of them being live. He has improved leaps and bounds this year and is easily the second best player in the Q behind Drouin.

He will need some AHL time, but I see him being a quality 60pt, 30 goal scorer in the NHL in the not so distant future.

 

[Mathletic]

This is the only part that matters. Can't watch a player away from the puck on TV.

No offense but between a guy who does great things with the puck and a guy who does great things 20 feet away from the puck. I won't hesitate long as to who I want on my team.

I'm not going to argue that watching on TV is better than watching live. Just saying that when I saw him live, I can't say I learned anything new. He came as expected for me. My understanding of the guy seems pretty close to that of Alain Chainey, former Ducks head scout. Looks to me like he sees the same things live as I see them on tv.

Great scouting report, Mathletic ! Do you have more of those for players to be drafted ?

Yeah I could do some more. Though it's not a great year for the Q, I kept an eye on Alexis Vanier for a good part of the season. I didn't get as many viewings but still have a good idea of his strengths and weaknesses.

 

[BStinson]

Those players aren't blacked out, that's the beveled edge of your TV. I'm sure you've noticed, but there's a limit to the field of view that cameras are able to capture and broadcast at one time, and that the various angles they coordinate often prevent much being seen outside a fairly narrow radius around the puck.

Being a huge film bluff there is so much wrong with your grasp of what you can do with a video camera.

Good write up on Mantha can't wait to see him in Grand Rapids and hopefully if he keeps his word Babcock in letting him have some games with the big club.

 

[Paxon]

Being a huge film bluff there is so much wrong with your grasp of what you can do with a video camera.

Good write up on Mantha can't wait to see him in Grand Rapids and hopefully if he keeps his word Babcock in letting him have some games with the big club.

You can't really compare what's possible and advisable in films with switching between cameras during a live sporting event. I'm a huge film buff as well and I personally hate the heavy use of multiple camera angles in sports during live action. Stick to a broad view of the action and save the rest for replays.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Being a huge film bluff there is so much wrong with your grasp of what you can do with a video camera.

Spend more time watching hockey and less time watching films, and you'll start to develop a grasp for what I'm talking about.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Youre kidding right? I've got a pretty good idea of NHL teams players from watching on TV most of the time. You literally reach every time you can to knock Mantha. Mathletic has seen him almost 40 times and you think thats not good enough to get an idea of how he plays and how good he is at certain aspects. Ive got news for you, when the puck is in the offensive zone, the TV generally shows the entire zone. You can see the play developing and all that. Same goes for the defensive zone.

You cant see way behind the play as well as you can live but get off your high horse lol. The guy took the time to write up that scouting report based on almost 40 games of viewing and you say it doesnt matter because only a couple were live

I'd have to say I've seen him at least half as many times, at least each game that they've played here the last two seasons (including three games these playoffs... missing tonight, boooo), and I agree with a lot of the things in the report. A lot of those things you could have deduced from stats and written somewhat generally about and get away without much scrutiny too, though. I'd say hockey sense/anticipation/decision-making, playmaking, work ethic and consistency are rated too highly if 7-8 = "better than most", and things like his skating and discipline might actually be too low, for some examples. It was a lot of text to type out though, so credit for that I guess.

 

[Mathletic]

I'd have to say I've seen him at least half as many times, at least each game that they've played here the last two seasons (including three games these playoffs... missing tonight, boooo), and I agree with a lot of the things in the report. A lot of those things you could have deduced from stats and written somewhat generally about and get away without much scrutiny too, though. I'd say hockey sense/anticipation/decision-making, playmaking, work ethic and consistency are rated too highly if 7-8 = "better than most", and things like his skating and discipline might actually be too low, for some examples. It was a lot of text to type out though, so credit for that I guess.

Of course we could deduce a lto by his stats. Further proof that analytics could be quite useful to a team

For more in-depth comments, you can go back to previous posts. I kept it short for that report but I've written at great lengths all season long on Mantha.

As for his skating, could be an 8. Depends how you judge him. Not a burner like Ehlers and those guys. But definately not slow either. As for his discipline. He's not terrible. But I rated this aspect as being neither a strength nor a weakness. He can take some bad penalties at times though he's no Matt Cooke. Teams try to take him off his game on a consistent basis, so it could be rated higher but could have done a better job at times this year.

I don't understand why you say anticipation isn't a strength of his. Pretty good at stuff like reads and reacts to the play, gets himself in position before the play develops, sees opnening for transition play.

People always come back from games and say. How can he score so many goals. Gotta be the quietest goal scorer ever. That's because he's at the right place and the right time to either jump on rebounds or take shots quickly. Transition play is excellent. The 9.5 rating maybe a bit high but is a solid 8.5 at the very least.

As for making the right decisions. One underrated aspect of his game is his vision and playmaking abilities. Doesn't look to score at all costs. If anything, he's been too patient at times looking for his teammates. From the point, doesn't look to make the big slapshots. More often than not he'll simply make a precise shot that will make its way through traffic.

As for his work ethic, consistency and that sort of thing. Kid was criticized heavily at the draft. Answered his critics by improving on a lot of his weaknesses. Was praised by Sutter at the U20 for wanting to learn and improve. Excellent stamina.

Mantha hasn't gone more than 2 games without scoring all season long. So, I don't see how he can be knocked for consistency. Has scored from all sorts of situations. In this year's playoffs has screened goalies, jumped on rebounds and that sort of thing. So not just goals from the outside.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Of course we could deduce a lto by his stats. Further proof that analytics could be quite useful to a team

I think I deserved that one.

For more in-depth comments, you can go back to previous posts. I kept it short for that report but I've written at great lengths all season long on Mantha.

As for his skating, could be an 8. Depends how you judge him. Not a burner like Ehlers and those guys. But definately not slow either. As for his discipline. He's not terrible. But I rated this aspect as being neither a strength nor a weakness. He can take some bad penalties at times though he's no Matt Cooke. Teams try to take him off his game on a consistent basis, so it could be rated higher but could have done a better job at times this year.

I don't understand why you say anticipation isn't a strength of his. Pretty good at stuff like reads and reacts to the play, gets himself in position before the play develops, sees opnening for transition play.

People always come back from games and say. How can he score so many goals. Gotta be the quietest goal scorer ever. That's because he's at the right place and the right time to either jump on rebounds or take shots quickly. Transition play is excellent. The 9.5 rating maybe a bit high but is a solid 8.5 at the very least.

As for making the right decisions. One underrated aspect of his game is his vision and playmaking abilities. Doesn't look to score at all costs. If anything, he's been too patient at times looking for his teammates. From the point, doesn't look to make the big slapshots. More often than not he'll simply make a precise shot that will make its way through traffic.

As for his work ethic, consistency and that sort of thing. Kid was criticized heavily at the draft. Answered his critics by improving on a lot of his weaknesses. Was praised by Sutter at the U20 for wanting to learn and improve. Excellent stamina.

Mantha hasn't gone more than 2 games without scoring all season long. So, I don't see how he can be knocked for consistency. Has scored from all sorts of situations. In this year's playoffs has screened goalies, jumped on rebounds and that sort of thing. So not just goals from the outside.

Real short version, because I'm hungry and flipping between games. Didn't mean skating in general, or "across the board", should be "8". There are all kinds of aspects that I would assess with ratings of below average through above average. As for the rest of those things, from anticipation to consistency, full marks offensively doesn't automatically mean full marks overall in my rating "system", but everyone has their own.

 

[wings5]

For those of you who remember Jeff a Carter in his junior days, how do the two compare?