Speculation: Luongo Trade Discussions Thread - All

[Al14]

For all of Burke's shortcomings he managed to avoid the really burdensome contracts that were handed out the last CBA. I would rather not trade for one in Luongo and add a potential deadly contract 5 years from now.

Exactly, why screw up and acquire a really bad contract now?

 

[The Apologist]

Exactly, why screw up and acquire a really bad contract now?

It's apparently a 'pattern' of his... Still waiting for an example of it with any relevance

 

[Woodman19]

It's apparently a 'pattern' of his... Still waiting for an example of it with any relevance

Maybe you should try reading what I am actually writing and not what you think I am.

 

[zeke]

the contract is bad in one sense, but really good in another sense (like all the cap-circumventing contracts are).

bottom line is that despite the crappy length of the deal, during the majority of the deal you are still likely to get elite performance for a discount price.

 

[Al14]

Yup we Tanked - and Burke traded the Lottery Picks ... Biggest Idiot to run a hockey club since Mike Milbury.

I'm not sure you should call Burke the biggest idiot, but, he sure didn't evaluate the talent on the team when he traded two, top 5 unprotected draft picks, for Kessel. It wasn't that he traded the firsts, it was that he didn't evaluate his team properly and ended up paying way too much for Kessel.

Kessel should never been acquired at the time. Kessel is more of a final piece you add to complete a championship team. He is not the type of hockey player you can build around. Too 1 dimensional IMHO.

 

[hockeywiz542]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...ership-must-stay-out-of-hockey-operations-cox

The beauty of the Burke years is that he had full rein to do what he wanted with the club. If trades were made or the roster was altered, you knew the responsibility lay with Burke.

Now, after Wednesday’s bizarre happenings, nobody’s quite sure whether Nonis and the hockey department will enjoy that same independence. Right now, it feels a little like when John Ferguson Jr. took over. Ferguson was forced to accept Pat Quinn as his coach, and as the ice melted under his feet over the following seasons, it seemed more and more that president Richard Peddie and the MLSE board were becoming increasingly involved in the decision-making process.

Interestingly, Nonis was one of the people interviewed by Toronto lawyer Gord Kirke back in the spring/summer of 2008 when Kirke headed a GM search committee for the Leafs. Ultimately, Nonis’s suggestion that the proper approach would likely mean another four or five years out of post-season play didn’t appeal to the Leafs, and in November the team hired Burke.

Well, Nonis’s philosophies haven’t changed, and it’s unlikely he will look at the current Leaf roster and depth chart and see this team as a piece or two away from being a contender.

If he wants to take the slow and steady approach and ownership just wants a playoff date or two, there could be a conflict here.

We’ll see. Maybe Bell and Rogers will back off now, do the right thing and let Nonis do the job.

It’s going to be challenging enough without interference from the top.

 

[masarume]

I'm beyond ecstatic if these words prove to true in time. Keep in mind that Rogers and Bell owns Sportsnet. In my mind actions speak way louder than words.

As much as I appreciate Burke for having the balls to make that deal, I hated him going against a traditional rebuild. If that's what Nonis is doing, I'm totally onboard. We aren't winning the cup in the next 2-3 years, we might as well be rebuilding. Sell our non core assets and build through the draft.

I'm hopeful for now.

 

[Faustus]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...ership-must-stay-out-of-hockey-operations-cox

Does Cox have any proof that Nonis' patience was the reason they chose Burke? I seriously doubt it.

And anyway, this drought has proven that MLSE can make money hand over fist even with a terrible product on the ice, so if Nonis wants to be patient, I bet they'll be fine with it. We have a great start with some young guys, but we need a lot more pieces. I would sell off almost anything that gets us a 1st or 2nd this year and do this thing right.

 

[bunjay]

For all of Burke's shortcomings he managed to avoid the really burdensome contracts that were handed out the last CBA. I would rather not trade for one in Luongo and add a potential deadly contract 5 years from now.

I see the Phaneuf contract as plenty burdensome.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Connolly and Lombardi are both UFAs at the end of this season and if Komisarek doesn't get his game together, he'll probably be amnesty bought out.

I still think Komisarek will be better off getting traded to a welfare team to help them make the salary floor. He has a $4.5M cap hit and only gets paid $3.5M each of the next two seasons.

Komisarek has that "deserves a fresh start" feel to him. I think someone like Garth Snow or Stevie Y would take a chance on him for more than what a lot of people would think he is worth.

Not just that, but Komisarek might be held till next season's deadline. He would have a lot of appeal then as well, because he would be a player that could be used by cap max teams to unburden additional cap room, since Komi frees up almost $5M in cap room after the 2014-15 season.

He's not a likely candidate for amnesty buy-out.

 

[Toasterman]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...ership-must-stay-out-of-hockey-operations-cox

I read that and by far I found this the most interesting part:

"Interestingly, Nonis was one of the people interviewed by Toronto lawyer Gord Kirke back in the spring/summer of 2008 when Kirke headed a GM search committee for the Leafs. Ultimately, Nonis’s suggestion that the proper approach would likely mean another four or five years out of post-season play didn’t appeal to the Leafs, and in November the team hired Burke."

So maybe Burke was actually pushed to get results now and hence the Kessel trade.

 

[Woodman19]

I see the Phaneuf contract as plenty burdensome.

At least there is no risk of him retiring and having 4-5 years of his deal remaining against the cap.

 

[Pi]

I'm excited at the thought of our ownership thinking straight.

Leave the decision on getting Luongo solely to Nonis. He's the GM...not Tannenbaum or Rogers/Bell. Let him come to the decision.

I've full trust that Nonis...a guy who says he's a bit MORE PATIENT than Burke would pull the trigger on Luongo if the price is Kadri and Gardiner...that's essentially two of our young stars traded for 3-4 years of good goaltending and a headache of a contract for the rest of the years.

I don't care if we can't make the playoffs this year...let's just try to go ONE YEAR without making a stupid mistake..that's all I want.

Easiest way to get there:

If team starts off good...try and make the playoffs by adding low key additions.
If team has no chance at the playoffs, it's time to call it a year and tank by trading of guys like MacArthur, Connolly, Lombardi, Liles (the last three will probably be harder to trade...but Liles cap hit is very good under a 64M cap hit), heck if Lupul isn't playing as good as last year, trade him too.

Accumulate the picks..draft top 5, preferably a center.

 

[Pi]

I read that and by far I found this the most interesting part:

"Interestingly, Nonis was one of the people interviewed by Toronto lawyer Gord Kirke back in the spring/summer of 2008 when Kirke headed a GM search committee for the Leafs. Ultimately, Nonis’s suggestion that the proper approach would likely mean another four or five years out of post-season play didn’t appeal to the Leafs, and in November the team hired Burke."

So maybe Burke was actually pushed to get results now and hence the Kessel trade.

I don't think Burke was pushed...IIRC Burke has said many times that he is not a patient guy and he's getting old etc etc..he wanted the Leafs to start making the playoffs.

I think that the Leafs found their match in Burke...I highly doubt the ownership would be meddling with Burke right after giving the man an 18M contract.

Hopefully, this new ownership realizes that the Leafs always make for good content...even if they play bad. We've got the best national following so they will still make their money even if they are a bit patient.

I liked Burke, but I think we'll like Nonis even more.

 

[indigobuffalo]

I see the Phaneuf contract as plenty burdensome.

How so? $6.5M may be a bit pricey with the reductions to the salary cap, but it's not unmanageable. It only affects us next year, when the salary cap drops by $5M, but the Leafs have $23M in cap room to play with, so it's not a big deal.

He'll get re-signed long-term at $5.6M~ and be great.

Same with Kessel. Those two will get the largest contract, same price tag, and that will be the benchmark for the rest of the team. Might be a bit higher than $5.6M but not much more.

 

[masarume]

Considering how much he dislikes the "Pittsburgh model" it would not surprise me that he was onboard with an accelerated rebuild version.

 

[Pi]

I see the Phaneuf contract as plenty burdensome.

How so?

The guy plays 30 minutes...and until last year had not one defenseman that could pair with him for an entire season.

They tried Beauch...but it seems like both of those guys wanted to be on offensive plays. They tried Aulie who was good because he had no offense and only focused on D but he was pretty slow for team relying on skating. They tried Komisarek...but even the coaches now finally know he sucks.

We have to sign Gunnarsson under contract ASAP. He played some of the toughest minutes in the league last year...has always been reliable, knows Phaneuf's tendencies and adjusts to that.

Phaneuf is no problem at all.

 

[bunjay]

At least there is no risk of him retiring and having 4-5 years of his deal remaining against the cap.

This is true.

 

[birddog*]

"He insists all they’ve asked for is tangible evidence of progress in the coming 48-game schedule."

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/01/10/leafs-axe-already-poised

This is a concerning statement.

Progress can be the emergence of some young players.

Edmonton made plenty of progress last year finishing 2nd last.

Progress would be JVR turning into a reliable, productive, top 6 winger. Highly probable. Kadri making the NHL and showing well. Frattin improving upon last season. Reimer returning to form. Players like Komarov, Holzner making the team and adding bite.

Progress doesn't mean playoffs. Nonis has said, 'young for young', 'putting building blocks in place'.

All the threads around here would have many think the house is falling. Nonis is a capable hockey man that kept the youth in Vancouver and made good trades.

 

[Auston Marlander]

1. Tank.
2. Trade Joffrey Lupul, Cody Franson and Clarke MacArthur.
3. Draft Nathan MacKinnon, Elias Lindholm or Alexander Barkov.
4. Trade for Roberto Luongo at the draft (Kadri, Bozak)
5. Sign Corey Perry, Paul Ranger and David Clarkson.

Going into 2013/14...

Perry - MacKinnon - Kessel
JVR - Grabovski - Kulemin
Komarov - Colborne - Clarkson
Brown - McClement - Ashton

Gunnarsson - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Ranger
Liles - Holzer
Kostka

Luongo
Reimer

I would love that lineup, but I have never been one to support throwing games. And this is assuming trading/signing players is easy and always happens the way you want.

 

[Auston Marlander]

1. Tank.
2. Trade Joffrey Lupul, Tyler Bozak, Cody Franson and Clarke MacArthur.
3. Draft Nathan MacKinnon, Elias Lindholm or Alexander Barkov.
4. Sign Corey Perry, Niklas Backstrom, Paul Ranger and David Clarkson.

Going into 2013/14...

Perry - MacKinnon - Kessel
JVR - Grabovski - Kulemin
Komarov - Kadri - Clarkson
Brown - McClement - Ashton

Gunnarsson - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Ranger
Liles - Holzer
Kostka

Backstrom
Reimer

Also good, but you are crazy if you think Rielly isn't on the team next year.

 

[Brewsky]

Trade all the players baby, 2013 draft is where it's at!

 

[Auston Marlander]

2nd. last
9th. last
5th. last

It might just be me, but that really looks like tanking.

Bad team = tanking?


Tanking, also known as match fixing or throwing. Are you saying that the Leafs planned on losing games? It was pre-determined by the Leafs before stepping on the ice they would lose?

Looks like people are throwing around the word tanking, without having a clue what it actually means. Losing =/= tanking, fact!

 

[Smif]

Good news. I saw we tank one more year, rid ourselves of the excess fat on our team for picks and ascend next year.

This. It's so obvious it hurts. Is it too much to ask to have a bad season during a shortened season, fans? During the season we cut the fat by trading away expiring contracts (minus Lupul and Kessel) and next season we go into free agency with another blue chip prospect (hopefully a forward) and lots of salry cap space to work with - unlike most teams.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I'm willing to bet that the Leafs would actually finish higher in the standings if Nonis was able to purge the roster of all the underperforming veterans (ie. Komisarek, Connolly, Lombardi, Steckel) and replace them with the kids on the farm.

Even if we get nothing but scraps in return, it would be addition by subtraction.