Post-Game Talk: Lumbering Jets lose 2-1 in OT

[BoneDocUK]

This post is so bad it hurts. You're comparing ALL ICE TIME of ALL PLAYERS in the league, regardless of position. Almost is if you don't know that D always play more than Forwards. Teams dress three defensive pairings because anyone who's ever played or observed hockey knows there is less exertion playing D than Forward. That's why the routinely can play upwards of 25 and sometimes even 30 mins. No Forwards play that much. So, if you look at ice time leaders by position (exclude the D), then you'll notice:

Scheifele - 3rd in league, Wheeler is 8th

Out of 500 forwards in the NHL, the only "duo" that plays more are McDavid and Draisaitl. Difference is, they've combined for 51 points vs Sheif / Wheels that have a total of 23 pts.

For perspective, league leaders Pasternak & Marchand both play 18 mins per game (almost 5 mins less).

So, NO, all coaches don't run their top units 23 mins a night. Most top lines are 20 mins or less.

Also worth noting that many teams don't have a Laine and Ehlers on their second line. We do, and we still play 26/55 up to a 1/3 more per night, even when they're clearly struggling, clearly exhausted, clearly overmatched and underwater, and when they're being outscored not only by their match but by those players whose ice-time is reigned in so 55/26 can hit their 22-24 mins.

And when a coach can admit that: "The guys that we ran the hardest over the course of the last four games showed it the most. They worked at it, but I didn’t think they had a whole lot in the tank," and STILL play the sh** out of them at the expense of every single other forward on the team, you have a problem.

I'm not even gonna touch the "We only have 2 d-men that can play 3-3" comment, made while Niku (and Heinola) sleepwalks through yet another dominating AHL performance because "conditioning." It's been a while since this team has been more pain than pleasure, but we're getting there.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Also worth noting that many teams don't have a Laine and Ehlers on their second line. We do, and we still play 26/55 up to a 1/3 more per night, even when they're clearly struggling, clearly exhausted, clearly overmatched and underwater, and when they're being outscored not only by their match but by those players whose ice-time is reigned in so 55/26 can hit their 22-24 mins.

And when a coach can admit that: "The guys that we ran the hardest over the course of the last four games showed it the most. They worked at it, but I didn’t think they had a whole lot in the tank," and STILL play the sh** out of them at the expense of every single other forward on the team, you have a problem.

I'm not even gonna touch the "We only have 2 d-men that can play 3-3" comment, made while Niku (and Heinola) sleepwalks through yet another dominating AHL performance because "conditioning." It's been a while since this team has been more pain than pleasure, but we're getting there.

Yep. If you’re going to overplay guys at least overplay Laine and Ehlers not Wheeler.

 

[HHel]

Wheeler got better offensively, but man was he bad defensively, again. Scheifele was really sluggish all game. Problem is that Maurice knows they can create a goal in a tight game, so he keeps going back to them looking for the magic.

Yes, that is the biggest problem in here. They can for sure create, but at this point they are giving more against. I think 1st line should be the best line in overall. It doesn't matter who is playing there. Now they are not.

 

[Jack722]

Have 55/26 ever changed with possession in OT?

IMO... there's a problem on this team.

If Ehlers or Laine played even close to the level of ineffectiveness that Scheif and Wheeler have sustained for much of this season they'd be stapled to the 4th line, or worse.

It's blindingly obvious that lineup decisions on this team are political, and I'm just praying that Scheif is actually trying to get the coach fired rather than him having bought into the idea that his poop doesn't smell and he can now do whatever he wants while others do the tough stuff.

 

[ovythegiraffe]

Lol you actually prove the point there, thanks. You understand that those posts are just regurgitated after every loss, and hidden after every win. Its the same fingers pointing at the same thing, yet conveniently ignoring any elements outside of that, which actually contributed to the game.

We didn't lose that game by playing our top line 23 minutes, or cause we kept Wheeler and Scheif together. They dominated in OT, so they weren't fatigued or overused. And while this maybe news to some, all teams play their top lines 22-25 mins a night. I guess every coach in the league is incompetent, after losses of course.

And fyi, breaking Wheeler and Scheif up, and playing them 5 less minutes a night, aint moving the needle either way. And guaranteed if it happens, and it doesn't translate to instant success, there will be mad scrambling to come up with a new narrative as to why a coach is the soul problem for any loss.

Best part of this narrative of our coaches incompetence based off his use of Wheeler and Scheif, is neither player is in the top 40 for ice time this season in the NHL. Scheif is 41 and Wheels is 81 in minutes thus far.

Gotta be coaching cause I cannot understand the breakdowns in a game enough to see their is a massive human element that contributes to mistakes on the ice, by the players. The best coaching in the world does not alleviate that.

Its not coaching, its has nothing to do with the GM, and everything to do with players being human and competing against the best in the league. It causes breakdowns and it leads to goals. Try analyzing that instead of the guy that never touches the ice, that would be majorly refreshing around here, actual hockey talk, not this blind finger pointing at entities that never touch the ice.

And last night we easly could have walked out with 2 points. We owned OT, and had the best chances to end it. If this game is your flagship example of an incompetent coach and GM, you truly are grasping

Most teams definitely don't play their top line 22-25 minutes on regular basis. Teams like Edmonton, Colorado and Florida(last season) do, because that's their only option. We aren't anything like those teams, Scheifele isn't McDavid level and the team behind the first line doesn't suck. Sheifele is 3rd in ice-time among forwards, trailing only McDavid and Drai, and Wheeler is 8th.

If that is true, then the coach should be changed. Nothing good comes from stripping someone of a letter, especially if they haven't done anything wrong. I maintain that it's not Wheeler's fault that he's overplayed. Is he asking for all the ice time? Maybe. But even in that case it's on the coach, not the player.

Yeah, every player wants ice time and no player is going to acknowledge they should play less because they're on a bad stretch or their age is possibly starting to affect their play. Nor do you want your player to have that type of quitter mindset, it's completely the coaches responsibility to make the tough decisions.

 

[Jets 31]

Laine , Scheif and Ehlers then Wheeler , Little and Connor . Try it for a couple of games not 1 period , Little and Wheeler definitely had chemistry for years and i think they could get that going again . Play both lines equal minutes and nobody should get their noses out of joint . It makes it harder for other teams to defend 2 good lines , don't say i didn't try and help you out Paul .

 

[Howard Chuck]

I posted this in the Coaching thread, but I think it fits here with the discussion:

Interesting article in the Athletic today discussing how the Bruins and the Blues both looked extensively, this past offseason at past SC winners/finalists to see who did well and who didn't and why.

The biggest takeaway? Load management of the players.

Does this sound exactly the opposite of our strategy? I think so.

 

[cbcwpg]

if the org feels this is still a normal year with a shot of doing something in the playoffs, it's pretty hard to understand why but even then, you would think we'd be more proactive in fixing things that are in a slump, at the same time as protecting our top player's minutes early in the year. The current play of the team, minus helle, doesn't really indicate long term good results for the year, so why not shake things up if only for a few games?

If the management of this team thinks this ( org feels this is still a normal year with a shot of doing something in the playoffs ) they are delusional. It's appearing that the only way this team can win a game is to have outstanding flawless goaltending, get the game to OT, and hope for a positive outcome. Eventually that well is going to go dry and this team is going to find themselves way out of the playoffs.

 

[HHel]

Man I am so glad to see someone like Murat say the things I think. It's nice to have some validation from someone who really knows the game and the stats.

Can anyone explain this 55/26 (and someties 81) overplaying, and never separating? Does anyone have a single rational explanation for this?

Then in OT, Maurice takes a time out, which is normally a good plan, but he does it so HE CAN SEND 55/26 OUT AGAIN! Then unsurprisingly, Wheeler is too tired to win a foot race and takes a penalty. What do you think Laine, Ehlers, Roslovic, Pionk etc all think sitting on the bench while Maurice shows that he ONLY wants to play 55/26, to the point where he would rather try to rest those two over playing ANYONE else on the bench?

Trying to build a team? Wrong way.....

What is going on? It's like I'm living in some sort of alternate reality where up is down and bad is good etc....

I don't think there is any reasonable answer for that.

Maurice gave 12 game opportunity to see how different lines could work. We saw 1,5 periods ESL and 0 min CSL. Now we are stuck in CSW rest of the season. This makes me feel like this

 

[Howard Chuck]

If the management of this team thinks this ( org feels this is still a normal year with a shot of doing something in the playoffs ) they are delusional. It's appearing that the only way this team can win a game is to have outstanding flawless goaltending, get the game to OT, and hope for a positive outcome. Eventually that well is going to go dry and this team is going to find themselves way out of the playoffs.

Yes, and I can only speak for myself, but my frustration with this, is how talented we are except on D. We have such a potentially great 1,2 and possibly even 3, punch up front.

Our goaltending has been very good mostly, our talent is there up front, and the D hasn't been horrendous (but still isn't great).

But here we are, looking lifeless and disorganized.

 

[Jets 31]

If the management of this team thinks this ( org feels this is still a normal year with a shot of doing something in the playoffs ) they are delusional. It's appearing that the only way this team can win a game is to have outstanding flawless goaltending, get the game to OT, and hope for a positive outcome. Eventually that well is going to go dry and this team is going to find themselves way out of the playoffs.

This team still has a tonne of talent and they are 8-7-1 , i'm not ready to call it a season and tank on the hope we pick a very good player and that player actually pans out . I might change my tune 2 months from now but not yet .

 

[Halberdier]

I agree Morrissey was better this game. Speaking of D, Bitetto surprised me last night on the PK, I thought he was excellent there.

He had to be better, as in previous game Morrissey was the key player for 3 GA of 3 possible: on first, he made a nice screen for Brossoit (yeah, unlucky) and on two others he made that crucial, blatant giveaway in very vulnerable position where you just can't do that.

 

[ffh]

I'll say it again Chevy just gave wheeler 40 mill last year over 5 years and mo isnt going to put wheeler on 2nd line or take him off pp1 to show Chevy made a bad decision. Not for a very long time.

 

[Jets 31]

We just need to stop wearing those baby blue Gets jerseys , we always seem to play like crap with those on . Just use the Heritage Classic jerseys that actually say Jets on them from now on .

 

[Jack722]

Man I am so glad to see someone like Murat say the things I think. It's nice to have some validation from someone who really knows the game and the stats.

Nah Murat's just another guy who shows up when we lose then disappears when we win

 

[Tommigun]

The biggest takeaway? Load management of the players.

Does this sound exactly the opposite of our strategy? I think so.

Is that yet another Miles Wood joke?

 

[antiqueslivers]

I think Ehlers shooting little in the head with the puck sums up the jets from last January and on pretty well.

 

[Halberdier]

I'll say it again Chevy just gave wheeler 40 mill last year over 5 years and mo isnt going to put wheeler on 2nd line or take him off pp1 to show Chevy made a bad decision. Not for a very long time.

Bollocks. That "Mark Wheeler" usage scheme by Maurice had been continued for couple of years already when Chevy made that deal.

 

[tntkid]

Both Wheeler and Scheifele might get a bit more lively if they were separated....

Maurice is going to Maurice.
smh

 

[Tommigun]

I will join the chorus/lament in hoping that Bryan Little is OK... he is a key guy, not a 'room' guy.

Totally. There hasn't been any news yet, right? I'm impatiently waiting but I'm worried the news may not be good.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

We need more Scheifele and Wheeler out there.

We need more from Scheifele and Wheeler out there.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

We will win the next game because I’ll be there.They never lose when I’m there. there!

Just had to say that didn't you. Jinxed

 

[Jets 31]

Totally. There hasn't been any news yet, right? I'm impatiently waiting but I'm worried the news may not be good.

A piece of Little's helmet fell to the ice on the replay , i'm hoping the helmet took the brunt of the shot . You could clearly see Ehlers was upset at the bench , obviously not his fault but you would still feel terrible for being the one that shot the puck .

 

[Roughneck1]

I was glued to the set watching the Habs/Bruins game last night , now that was an exciting emotionally draining game, at an intense playoff hockey level, Marchand and Bergeron can bleed, literally, with Weber's fist in the chops. What mattered was the willingness to fight and jam it through to the end. Chariot btw had the game winning goal. Afterwards I switched to the Jets/Devils game...my God, total opposite style of play,about as intense as soggy corn flakes, what happened to my Jets? It was slow motion hockey all the way.
What is needed is a morale boost more than anything else to get this team started. Some plunger players to get the intense going.

Time for a new voice in my opinion. It’s time. As simple as that. Maurice has been with some of the same players too long. His voice has grown stale.

 

[AKAChip]

If only the Jets and Devils had a decades long, divisional rivalry to draw from.

That really has nothing to do with the general quality of hockey the team plays. And frankly, to suggest that guys like Weber, Domi, Drouin, etc give a crap that the Habs and Bruins of the 1970s hated each other to the point where it would affect the way they play the game is grasping at straws at best.

The point is the product on the ice for the Jets this season has been largely subpar but even more egregiously it’s been rather boring.