Salary Cap: Losing RFA's due to cap space

[New Liskeard]

One of the things Nonis has mentioned on several occasions, is the likelihood of teams losing their RFA's because they don't have the space to sign them. The Leafs have their work cut out for them to keep, Kadri/Gunnar/Colborne/Franson and Fraser all with 10 million left to spend. Curious as to see what other teams may have to release their RFA's due to cap constraints.

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[613Leafer]

I'm pretty certain that at some point in the next 2-3 years, we're either going to have to trade away a key RFA, or trade away a veteran signed longterm such as Lupul or JVR.

Bozak, JVR, Lupul, and Clarkson are the veterans signed to longterm relatively big money contracts that we don't look like we're trying to move right now. Kessel + Phaneuf should also be locked up longterm soon.

Kadri, Gardiner, Franson, Gunnarson, and Reimer are all up for big raises this offseason or next offseason.

Just adding up the numbers, and you can see how it starts to get tough to fill out the roster.

 

[Sypher04]

One of the things Nonis has mentioned on several occasions, is the likelihood of teams losing their RFA's because they don't have the space to sign them. The Leafs have their work cut out for them to keep, Kadri/Gunnar/Colborne/Franson and Fraser all with 10 million left to spend. Curious as to see what other teams may have to release their RFA's due to cap constraints.

I keep seeing Colborne listed in our group of RFAs to sign in our 10 mil. While, we do need to sign him, it's not really entirely fair imo to count him in that money. He's incredibly unlikely to have a spot on this team. It's really only Kadri/Gunnarsson/Franson and Fraser.

Fraser should get no more than a million.
Gunnarsson should get no more than 2.
Franson will likely get a little bit more money than Gunnarsson. Let's say 2.5
Kadri probably in the range of 3 million.

I'd personally don't foresee much trouble. I also expect Liles will be moved.

 

[KuleminFan41]

I'm pretty certain that at some point in the next 2-3 years, we're either going to have to trade away a key RFA, or trade away a veteran signed longterm such as Lupul or JVR.

Bozak, JVR, Lupul, and Clarkson are the veterans signed to longterm relatively big money contracts that we don't look like we're trying to move right now. Kessel + Phaneuf should also be locked up longterm soon.

Kadri, Gardiner, Franson, Gunnarson, and Reimer are all up for big raises this offseason or next offseason.

Just adding up the numbers, and you can see how it starts to get tough to fill out the roster.

Why would we trade JVR?He's just turned 24 , hardly a guy you want to trade to get "younger". We shouldn't try to trade proven guys, we should however should try to upgrade areas we NEED upgrading such as getting rid of Bozak eventually.

 

[TieClark]

We're fine. Liles will go long before anybody and with that 3.8 mil we'd easily fit under the cap. Going forward the cap will be rising every year just like after the last lockout. The only real problem is we're not reliant on our D prospects panning out and shoring up the back end for us.

 

[SprDaVE]

We'll make it work. You can't keep ALL of your best players and ALL of your best RFA's.

At some point, tough decisons will have to be made. I just hope we can get value back and keep the flow of players coming. I'm tired of having to buy out players just to make room or get rid of someone.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Lets also not forget Armstrong and Tucker's 1m a piece comes off the cap at the end of the season. Thats 2 more million dollars to add in the mix. Not to mention the retained salary of Frattin and Scrivens which is another 500k gone at the end of the season I believe. However the Liles contract might be a bit of a problem, nothing against the guy he's worth keeping but if you need to, you can let him go and use that money towards other players as well.

 

[Sypher04]

I'm pretty certain that at some point in the next 2-3 years, we're either going to have to trade away a key RFA, or trade away a veteran signed longterm such as Lupul or JVR.

Bozak, JVR, Lupul, and Clarkson are the veterans signed to longterm relatively big money contracts that we don't look like we're trying to move right now. Kessel + Phaneuf should also be locked up longterm soon.

Kadri, Gardiner, Franson, Gunnarson, and Reimer are all up for big raises this offseason or next offseason.

Just adding up the numbers, and you can see how it starts to get tough to fill out the roster.

Next season we get 2.5 million of our cap currently used on buyout penalties and retained salary back, in addition to whatever amount the cap rises by, and it's almost certainly going to rise by a good amount.

We could quite easily have 5-6+ to work with for next year's raises for Phaneuf and Kessel. Kulemin and McClement are the only other notables next season, and it's unlikely they get raises.

 

[bonjovi0308]

Ok, assume we dont have enough cap to sign everybody. If some of our RFAs signed with another team, do we get compensated?

 

[TieClark]

Next season we get 2.5 million of our cap currently used on buyout penalties and retained salary back, in addition to whatever amount the cap rises by, and it's almost certainly going to rise by a good amount.

We could quite easily have 5-6+ to work with for next year's raises for Phaneuf and Kessel. Kulemin and McClement are the only other notables next season, and it's unlikely they get raises.

I doubt Phaneuf gets a raise from 6.5

 

[Neil Hamburger]

I keep seeing Colborne listed in our group of RFAs to sign in our 10 mil. While, we do need to sign him, it's not really entirely fair imo to count him in that money. He's incredibly unlikely to have a spot on this team. It's really only Kadri/Gunnarsson/Franson and Fraser.

Fraser should get no more than a million.
Gunnarsson should get no more than 2.
Franson will likely get a little bit more money than Gunnarsson. Let's say 2.5
Kadri probably in the range of 3 million.

I'd personally don't foresee much trouble. I also expect Liles will be moved.

I think Colborne has a very good shot at being a full-time leaf next season unless we add another forward before the end of the off-season:

JVR-Bozak-Kessel
Lupul-Kadri-Clarkson
McClement-Bolland-Kulemin
McLaren-Colborne-Orr
D'amigo/Ashton

I see Gunnarson getting around 2.5 million, and Kadri and Franson both getting around 3 million.

 

[Sypher04]

I think Colborne has a very good shot at being a full-time leaf next season unless we add another forward before the end of the off-season:

JVR-Bozak-Kessel
Lupul-Kadri-Clarkson
McClement-Bolland-Kulemin
McLaren-Colborne-Orr
D'amigo/Ashton

I see Gunnarson getting around 2.5 million, and Kadri and Franson both getting around 3 million.

Disagree on Colborne. He really hasn't proven he deserves to be at the NHL level to this point and we really don't need him. I can't imagine they are going to play McClement on the wing instead of at center. I could see a guy like Jerry D'Amigo getting a much closer look than Colborne. Even if he was ready for NHL minutes, he's not a good fit for the 4th line duty.

 

[Mess]

Why would we trade JVR?He's just turned 24 , hardly a guy you want to trade to get "younger". We shouldn't try to trade proven guys, we should however should try to upgrade areas we NEED upgrading such as getting rid of Bozak eventually.

Trading JVR for a top 6 center or a top 4 pairing defender to address other needs certainly an option when your up against the cap ceiling and need to move money out and require assets to obtain them.

Having Kessel, Lupul and Clarkson lockup up long-term eventually could make JVR the best asset to move in trade having value to obtain a player at another position.

 

[613Leafer]

Why would we trade JVR?He's just turned 24 , hardly a guy you want to trade to get "younger". We shouldn't try to trade proven guys, we should however should try to upgrade areas we NEED upgrading such as getting rid of Bozak eventually.

We'll make it work. You can't keep ALL of your best players and ALL of your best RFA's.

At some point, tough decisons will have to be made. I just hope we can get value back and keep the flow of players coming. I'm tired of having to buy out players just to make room or get rid of someone.

1) I didn't say to specifically trade JVR. I said at some point, we'll have to trade SOMEONE, probably Lupul, JVR, or an RFA.

2) See what SprDaVE wrote. It's not because we'd WANT to move a player, it's because "tough decisions will have to be made". There IS a cap.

We have a lot of money tied up in wingers for the longterm. Kessel will likely get ~7.5M or so, maybe 8ish. Lupul gets 5.25, Clarkson 5.25, and JVR 4.25.

That's between 22.25-22.75M tied up in four wingers, the least important position in hockey. It's not hard to imagine a situation where we'll have to move one. We obviously wouldn't move Kessel, and I don't think anybody would take Clarkson as his deal will get worse and worse as time goes on and he's burning through his prime years. So that leaves Lupul or JVR.

 

[BlueBaron]

Ok, assume we dont have enough cap to sign everybody. If some of our RFAs signed with another team, do we get compensated?

Compensation is linked to the amount they sign for. Really though I don't see the concern. Kadri and Franson should both come in at under or around 3 mil, Gunnarson isn't likely to get over 2 and if Colborne plays on the big team I can't see him getting more than a mil.

If some team comes along and offers Kadri 6 mil or something stupid, we would get a bunch of picks or we match. I just don't see that happening.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Trading JVR for a top 6 center or a top 4 pairing defender to address other needs certainly an option when your up against the cap ceiling and need to move money out and require assets to obtain them.

Having Kessel, Lupul and Clarkson lockup up long-term eventually could make JVR the best asset to move in trade having value to obtain a player at another position.

Its hard to judge who to trade for what. You trade JVR and get a great return but I doubt someone would want to get weaker at center for a winger. I think the "best" way is to trade a forward for D and a D for a forward and upgrade that way. We have prospect depth at D which is what should be used as trade bait but I doubt getting a #1C would be that simple lol

 

[Deebo]

Compensation is linked to the amount they sign for. Really though I don't see the concern. Kadri and Franson should both come in at under or around 3 mil, Gunnarson isn't likely to get over 2 and if Colborne plays on the big team I can't see him getting more than a mil.

If some team comes along and offers Kadri 6 mil or something stupid, we would get a bunch of picks or we match. I just don't see that happening.

I think Gunnarsson will almost certainly get over 2.

 

[Mess]

1) I didn't say to specifically trade JVR. I said at some point, we'll have to trade SOMEONE, probably Lupul, JVR, or an RFA.

2) See what SprDaVE wrote. It's not because we'd WANT to move a player, it's because "tough decisions will have to be made". There IS a cap.

We have a lot of money tied up in wingers for the longterm. Kessel will likely get ~7.5M or so, maybe 8ish. Lupul gets 5.25, Clarkson 5.25, and JVR 4.25.

That's between 22.25-22.75M tied up in four wingers, the least important position in hockey. It's not hard to imagine a situation where we'll have to move one. We obviously wouldn't move Kessel, and I don't think anybody would take Clarkson as his deal will get worse and worse as time goes on and he's burning through his prime years. So that leaves Lupul or JVR.

Leafs 4 highest paid forwards are Wingers the least important position on a team, so I agree something has to give in a cap World, if you have needs in other areas.

I wouldn't say "obviously" you wouldn't move Kessel as Nonis says he has no untouchables. Also Kessel is in the final year of his deal so there remains uncertainty as to his Leafs future until his next contract is completed.

If St. Louis was dangling Pietrangelo a Norris potential current RFA dman, that if they can't come to terms with might become available, I'd certainly listen even if the discussion included Kessel.

 

[613Leafer]

Leafs 4 highest paid forwards are Wingers the least important position on a team, so I agree something has to give in a cap World, if you have needs in other areas.

I wouldn't say "obviously" you wouldn't move Kessel as Nonis says he has no untouchables. Also Kessel is in the final year of his deal so there remains uncertainty as to his Leafs future until his next contract is completed.

If St. Louis was dangling Pietrangelo a Norris potential current RFA dman, that if they can't come to terms with might become available, I'd certainly listen even if the discussion included Kessel.

That's fair. I've been an advocate of trading Kessel under certain scenarios in the past, and still do want to trade him if the contract negotiations aren't going well.

I guess more accurately would be to say that IF Kessel is signed longterm, in terms of priorities, I don't think management would move him if they could move JVR or Lupul instead.

For me, I'm willing to trade anyone at anytime, depending on the return. Kessel would just be a lot less realistic to be moved (if signed).

 

[JackJ]

One of the things Nonis has mentioned on several occasions, is the likelihood of teams losing their RFA's because they don't have the space to sign them. The Leafs have their work cut out for them to keep, Kadri/Gunnar/Colborne/Franson and Fraser all with 10 million left to spend. Curious as to see what other teams may have to release their RFA's due to cap constraints.

Moving Liles adds another $3,875,000 to the cap ($13,875,000) :

Kadri 3
Gunnar 3
Franson 3
Colborne 1
Fraser 1

Cap space remaining: $2,875,000

 

[Kurisu]

would love to see what this idiotic management does regarding the cap management moving forward (who's in charge of keeping track of the cap space again?)

 

[tans66]

Our RFa's filed for arbritration, they cannot get offer sheets. That is why Nonis went down this root. He has time with our RFA's, that is why Bernier was the 1st rfa signed, he was open to offer sheets.
I believe Kadri will get a bridge contract, Franson is the wild card. he wasn't happy here under RW, he did do alot better under RC. I could see a trade chip here, for his rights. Since a sign and trade cannot happen after arbritration I believe.

I think 10mil will get them signed. To free up some cap space, Liles going, I hope there is a market for him. Offensive dman,who turns the puck over alot for 3.8 over 4?? Leaf land might want to get used to throwing in a pick to move him.
As far as future cap space, the cap is only going to go up. Light estimates over 70+ next season, be pushing 80 in no time ,well before this cba expires.

 

[Mess]

Its hard to judge who to trade for what. You trade JVR and get a great return but I doubt someone would want to get weaker at center for a winger. I think the "best" way is to trade a forward for D and a D for a forward and upgrade that way. We have prospect depth at D which is what should be used as trade bait but I doubt getting a #1C would be that simple lol

Colorado is a team that has 4 centers, so its a position of strength after drafting Mackinnon.. So they're in a position to be able to deal one.

They could use a young winger more like a JVR to move their strength down the middle to fill needs on the flanks.

Ryan O'Reilly can't be dealt for a full year because of the offer sheet matching situation, but he might be the player eventually that Leafs could pry away from the Avs.

While I'd prefer Duchene, a JVR for ROR down the road is a scenario I can see potentially addressing needs of both teams in trade.. ROR contract might simply be too rich for Colorado in time.. With new management Sakic and Roy we really don't now what and who they might be willing to move..

 

[JackJ]

Ok, assume we dont have enough cap to sign everybody. If some of our RFAs signed with another team, do we get compensated?

Yes depending on the dollar amount:

$1,110,249 or below - No Compensation
Over $1,110,249 to $1,682,194 - 3rd round pick
Over $1,682,194 to $3,364,391 - 2nd round pick
Over $3,364,391 to $5,046,585 - 1st round pick, 3rd
Over $5,046,585 to $6,728,781 - 1st round pick, 2nd, 3rd
Over $6,728,781 To $8,410,976 - Two 1st Round Picks, 2nd, 3rd
Over $8,410,976 - Four 1st Round Picks

 

[The Hockey Life]

People here suggesting keeping Clarkson over JvR