Confirmed with Link: Logan Stanley 2 years 1.25 million

[JetsFan815]

He is neither bad nor good but he is serviceable. This contract actually makes him more tradeable as well since teams will know what they are going to be paying.

It hardly moves the needle or really deserves massive discussion at this point IMO. I mean if they slot in the top 4 for sure discuss away but I think he is in the press box unless Heinola shits the bed.

People say this every season with such signings (Hendrix, Beaulieu, Thompson) and are often wrong. As things stand right now there is a better than 50% chance Stanley is in the starting lineup even if Heinola has a good camp and makes the team. His only competition is Miller and Miller was deemed behind Stanley in the depth chart last season when Arniel was running the Jets D.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

It wasn't maukkis

Again, I'm not debating your first paragraph. But that wasn't the discussion that I was having with @WolfHouse that spawned all this bullshit

As for your first paragraph, I agree. But we also don't necessarily need charts to know that JoMo is good and Stanley is bad. They *may* come in handy when they DON'T match the eye test, as they might provide some insight as to why someone who appears to be having an impact (positive OR nevative) isn't statistically doing so

All I said was that both Stanley and Kova are bottom pairing Dmen (at best) with similar value. His position was that Kovacevic has way more value. And yes, he used the charts as his only argument (after he claimed that Kova had better "advanced stats", which I pointed out was false"

No - you cherry picked data to suit your needs...

Relative corsi, TOI, Defensive zone starts, possession quality Xgf, etc - this all favours Kova in the big picture

The picture that fancy stats/stats/models provide - since apparently I have to be overly clear now - is the following

Kova is a fringe Dman who was forced into an elevated role with Montreal and survived - also scoring at a good pace for a dman. He has played significant minutes against top opponents when asked and now he will be a callup or sheltered role in NJD - we should expect this stats to improve. He is a RHD that is increasingly coveted in the NHL.

Stan is a fringe Dman who has been sheltered and supported by Samberg and does not have enough PK minutes for us to even assess - which at 26 years old says something. He is a LHD that is blocking Heinola and other prospects. He has played HALF the amount of hockey that Kovacevic has in twice as many pro seasons.

To say their advanced stats are comparable - illustrates a basic misunderstanding of how statistics/models work.

Between this and the Ehlers mangled stats arguments you've presented... I honestly don't see what points you are trying to make anymore - other than that YOU think you have more insight watching the games than the actual statistics/data are indicating.

 

[Buffdog]

No - you cherry picked data to suit your needs...

Relative corsi, TOI, Defensive zone starts, possession quality Xgf, etc - this all favours Kova in the big picture

The picture that fancy stats/stats/models provide - since apparently I have to be overly clear now - is the following

Kova is a fringe Dman who was forced into an elevated role with Montreal and survived - also scoring at a good pace for a dman. He has played significant minutes against top opponents when asked and now he will be a callup or sheltered role in NJD - we should expect this stats to improve. He is a RHD that is increasingly coveted in the NHL.

Stan is a fringe Dman who has been sheltered and supported by Samberg and does not have enough PK minutes for us to even assess - which at 26 years old says something. He is a LHD that is blocking Heinola and other prospects. He has played HALF the amount of hockey that Kovacevic has in twice as many pro seasons.

To say their advanced stats are comparable - illustrates a basic misunderstanding of how statistics/models work.

Between this and the Ehlers mangled stats arguments you've presented... I honestly don't see what points you are trying to make anymore - other than that YOU think you have more insight watching the games than the actual statistics/data are indicating.

So just to be clear, you're saying that Kovacevic is a vastly superior player to Stanley?

Your biggest problem is that you either don't read what I'm saying, or think I'm saying something that I'm not

I didn't "cherry pick" stats. I used the ones that the stats guys around here use most often when they're advocating for whoever/whatever they're advocating for. I've never seen anyone well versed in stats post a JFresh card. They stick to xGF% and GF% for the most part.

I'm really curious sometime about what you think I'm trying to say vs what I actually say. I'm sure part of it is me.not articulating myself well, but I feel like you see things that aren't there and make assumptions about what I think

 

[Buffdog]

No idiots are the enemy of the truth.

Both of you are conveniently twisting any arguments in an extreme manner - like oh 'you ONLY trust a random internet dude' - and acting as if you guys aren't LESS informed than said random internet dude

There's a lot of shots at Garret on here, JFresh, etc... anyone knows that you take a holistic approach to data - look at various models, look at the basic statistics and then make an informed decision. Models already do that and the guys who make them are always careful to point out their potential flaws.

When someone uses ANY example that doesn't agree with you - both you and @Buffdog portray it like we are worshipping this one and ONLY ONE form of data.

I hate to break it to you guys - but we all watch the same games and see the same players, their actions form our bias - models and statistics exist to either confirm or reject this bias based on an array of data.

Neither of you - nor I - spend significant time analyzing data. When someone quotes a model or statistics, your only answer is to take things to an extreme example in order to refute that data... like @Buffdog arguing that I said 'statistics' instead model - when they serve the same purpose.

The level of banality that this board has reached makes me think its time for a break...

Here's your facts to end this ridiculousness
The Jets are stuck in a sunk-cost fallacy with Stanley - the odds of him emerging are almost zero
We are paying him twice what a 7th Dman should be making - in that sense he's using $$ that could go towards another asset
Nothing shows that he's an effective PKer - eye test or stats
He has only played extremely sheltered minutes - leaving our top 4 with a heavier workload
His stats this year were elevated by the Samberg effect
He was fatally exposed in the playoffs
He is slow and does not read lanes well
He has a long reach

Good luck with the Stan fan club... you're going to need it.

For the record, I never once disagreed with any of your points about Stanley lol

 

[Al Camino]

People say this every season with such signings (Hendrix, Beaulieu, Thompson) and are often wrong. As things stand right now there is a better than 50% chance Stanley is in the starting lineup even if Heinola has a good camp and makes the team. His only competition is Miller and Miller was deemed behind Stanley in the depth chart last season when Arniel was running the Jets D.

Plus Miller is on the right side so he's probably better than 50%. If past is prologue Heinola will be held to a different standard. Stanley can make the same errors on repeat but if Heinola has one bad game he's in the press box.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

For the record, I never once disagreed with any of your points about Stanley lol

Pee pee poo poo

 

[Jets 31]

Heinola won the job last season in camp but got injured, i think if Heinola plays decent this training camp and pre-season he is above Stanley in the depth chart.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Stanley sucks
/end of debate

Yes ........ but the discussion will continue.

 

[DRW204]

Heinola won the job last season in camp but got injured, i think if Heinola plays decent this training camp and pre-season he is above Stanley in the depth chart.

according to who

 

[KingBogo]

Heinola won the job last season in camp but got injured, i think if Heinola plays decent this training camp and pre-season he is above Stanley in the depth chart.

I think this is very likely. I also like that there is opportunity on the left side instead of forcing the kid to break through on his off side.

Heinola won the job last season in camp but got injured, i think if Heinola plays decent this training camp and pre-season he is above Stanley in the depth chart.

I think this is very likely. I also like that there is opportunity on the left side instead of forcing the kid to break through on his off side.

 

[KingBogo]

Sorry for the double quote @Jets 31. Out at the lake having a few and this site is jumpy as hell.

 

[Buffdog]

Pee pee poo poo

That's the most intelligent post you've had in a while

 

[Jets 31]

according to who

When camp was just about finished Bowness was saying how well Heinola had played and he had earned a spot on the team but then got injured.

 

[KingBogo]

When camp was just about finished Bowness was saying how well Heinola had played and he had earned a spot on the team but then got injured.

This was well reported at the end of camp last season.

 

[Jets 31]

Sorry for the double quote @Jets 31. Out at the lake having a few and this site is jumpy as hell.

You be careful when walking the dog later.

 

[DRW204]

When camp was just about finished Bowness was saying how well Heinola had played and he had earned a spot on the team but then got injured.

He backed into a spot bc Schmidt was hurt. There's no guarantee he remained there if Schmidt was healthy, and never played a single game all year.

Also, on the game day heinola got hurt, Bowness said nothing was decided if he made was on opening night roster. Unless you have something that's saying contrary which then I'll defer and concede.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1709971478312005816

 

[MelikeJets]

Debate is a good thing.

Of course debate is a good thing. It seemed like things were getting ugly so I thought a little humorous comment would lighten things up.

 

[Jets 31]

He backed into a spot bc Schmidt was hurt. There's no guarantee he remained there if Schmidt was healthy, and never played a single game all year.

Also, on the game day heinola got hurt, Bowness said nothing was decided if he made was on opening night roster. Unless you have something that's saying contrary which then I'll defer and concede.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1709971478312005816

No i don't but i would agree Schmidt being hurt obviously played a part and with both Schmidt and Dillon gone i would think Heinola has a very good shot this season.

 

[ps241]

Of course debate is a good thing. It seemed like things were getting ugly so I thought a little humorous comment would lighten things up.

I agree it is better when the blood is not boiling

 

[JetsFan815]

Plus Miller is on the right side so he's probably better than 50%. If past is prologue Heinola will be held to a different standard. Stanley can make the same errors on repeat but if Heinola has one bad game he's in the press box.

Heinola has been groomed as playing on the right side for the Moose, so it is possibly they play him on the right side with stan on the left, in the playoffs they played Samberg who had never seriously played on his right side on his right side just to get Stan into the lineup.

 

[DRW204]

No i don't but i would agree Schmidt being hurt obviously played a part and with both Schmidt and Dillon gone i would think Heinola has a very good shot this season.

Sure this year.
I'm talking last season that just happened, 2023-2024. so if there's nothing, the narrative he won a spot and would of remained there regardless of health of the vets, can be momentarily retired then? (obviously if someone has something to the contrary, i fully concede).

 

[gojetsgo]

Sure this year.
I'm talking last season that just happened, 2023-2024. so if there's nothing, the narrative he won a spot and would of remained there regardless of health of the vets, can be momentarily retired then? (obviously if someone has something to the contrary, i fully concede).

 

[DRW204]

of course after the injury they say it what else was he going to say while the guy is hurt.

and the op said when camp was finished, this was from December

 

[LowLefty]

Plus Miller is on the right side so he's probably better than 50%. If past is prologue Heinola will be held to a different standard. Stanley can make the same errors on repeat but if Heinola has one bad game he's in the press box.

The only thing that has kept Ville out of the lineup is that he was too soft and basically scared Sh$tless when on the ice - he had no clue how to handle the the physical NHL game and that's more than enough to keep him out of the lineup.
I believe he actually stated that he needed to be much stronger and better prepared to play in this league - so he spent some time and effort in building up his body which he should gave done much earlier but likely thought his "skill" would be the difference maker. But better late than never.
So it really wasn't a conspiracy - and it wasn't based on one bad game. It was about his size and strength - he wasn't ready for the NHL - and he basically admitted that.

What everyone is hoping is that he has addressed the issue - and his preseason LY would support that.
Here's hoping he can keep it up in the reg season when it counts - if so, he'll run over Stan.

 

[Jets 31]

Sure this year.
I'm talking last season that just happened, 2023-2024. so if there's nothing, the narrative he won a spot and would of remained there regardless of health of the vets, can be momentarily retired then? (obviously if someone has something to the contrary, i fully concede).

You don't have to concede anything, you can have your own opinion and you could be right. Honestly i don't care who our starting 6 defenseman are next season as long as they are the best 6 defenseman we have at the time even if that means a regular starting defenseman is in the press box .