Logan Cooley is on pace for 75 points

[Team_Spirit]

Beautiful goal

 

[MNRube]

One of my favorite college hockey players in recent years. Electric, and has a sneaky mean-streak. Excited to see what Utah looks like when Simashev, Iginla, But & Lamorouex are ready

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

The trouble is it’s a moot debate. In 2022 I was very happy with Slaf, in 2023 I was pissed and I believed we made a big mistake that we passed on Michkov. In both cases, it’s an academic debate because both Cooley (who’s never been my cup of tea) and Michkov are redundant with the addition of Laine and Demidov.

This is next level delusional

 

[SallyBalls]

You joined HF in 2014 and 40+ of your 91 post are about Lane Hutson. This is the moment you've been waiting a decade for.

I've kept my powder dry and have bided my time for this moment. Patience of a Buddhist Monk.

This is next level delusional

You'd know all about being delusional.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Cooley has been awesome this year, not too surprising to see him taking the next step. That said, he's running a bit hot and will likely cool off in the back half of the season. His playing style and skillset should lead to a higher on ice sh% (especially playing alongside guys like Guenther and Keller), but he's at 12.9% 5v5 and 15.9% in all situations - that should probably be closer to 10% and 12-13% respectively.

If he plays all 82 games, I'd expect him to finish around 65-70 points instead of the 75 that he's on pace for.

You'd know all about being delusional.

Here is the list of U21 centers with a higher PPG than Cooley since the lockout:

Crosby
McDavid
Malkin
Stamkos
Matthews
Hughes
Stutzle
Barzal
Pettersson
Kopitar
Eichel

That's pretty good company, especially when you consider the list of players he's ahead of:

Bergeron
Barkov
Bedard
Celebrini
Draisaitl
Tavares
Toews
Seguin
Backstrom
Seguin
Aho
Mackinnon
Duchene
Hischier
Getzlaf
O'Reilly
Giroux
Thomas
Point
Suzuki

These lists are chockfull of future hall of fame centers and Stanley cup winners.

Cooley is tracking to be a top 10 center in his prime. Thinking that he'd be redundant in Montreal because of Suzuki or Demidov is hilariously delusional. Fun fact - he has more points in 46 games than Suzuki had in 71 games at the same age.

 

[SallyBalls]

Cooley has been awesome this year, not too surprising to see him taking the next step. That said, he's running a bit hot and will likely cool off in the back half of the season. His playing style and skillset should lead to a higher on ice sh% (especially playing alongside guys like Guenther and Keller), but he's at 12.9% 5v5 and 15.9% in all situations - that should probably be closer to 10% and 12-13% respectively.

If he plays all 82 games, I'd expect him to finish around 65-70 points instead of the 75 that he's on pace for.


Here is the list of U21 centers with a higher PPG than Cooley since the lockout:

Crosby
McDavid
Malkin
Stamkos
Matthews
Hughes
Stutzle
Barzal
Pettersson
Kopitar
Eichel

That's pretty good company, especially when you consider the list of players he's ahead of:

Bergeron
Barkov
Bedard
Celebrini
Draisaitl
Tavares
Toews
Seguin
Backstrom
Seguin
Aho
Mackinnon
Duchene
Hischier
Getzlaf
O'Reilly
Giroux
Thomas
Point
Suzuki

These lists are chockfull of future hall of fame centers and Stanley cup winners.

Cooley is tracking to be a top 10 center in his prime. Thinking that he'd be redundant in Montreal because of Suzuki or Demidov is hilariously delusional. Fun fact - he has more points in 46 games than Suzuki had in 71 games at the same age.

I love how you randomly theorize with little to no substance in your analysis. Lines like "i expect" and "should lead to". Randomly stabbing in the dark.

The air of superiority....

Anyone with time, care to go through whiskey's 36k posts and list his hits and misses... To use a "Whiskey-ism", "I suspect" he's missed more than he has hit over time.

 

[More Cooley]

Guess what? I got a fever and the only prescription is...

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I love how you randomly theorize with little to no substance in your analysis. Lines like "i expect" and "should lead to". Randomly stabbing in the dark.

The air of superiority....

Anyone with time, care to go through whiskey's 36k posts and list his hits and misses... To use a "Whiskey-ism", "I suspect" he's missed more than he has hit over time.

If you understood statistical regression, you would understand why I expect Cooley's pace to slow.

It's the same sort of analysis that I used to make this prediction back in 2022, when he only had 1 goal in his first 30 games.

 

[waitin425]

This is next level delusional

It really isn't next level delusional. Cooley has been the better player than Slaf this year. We can all acknowledge that. Progression in players do not follow a linear path and are not always predictable. What we have now, could be totally different 5 years from now.

Slaf is a completely different player than Cooley and fits into a team in a different role.

He's like what Daniil But will become for Utah....only a better version of that type of player. Value of certain types of players can be argued....and in most to all cases.....an elite player playing the role of Cooley is going to be more valuable than an elite power forward. But NOT in every case. In 5 years....we will see.

Teams are built with multiple different styles of players.

Power forwards, snipers, two way centres, puck moving d men, offensive d men, shut down d men. Habs are filling all of those roles.

Whiskey....you can celebrate now...and we really can't shut that shit down.....but be careful, crow is a very tough meat to digest.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Cooley has been awesome this year, not too surprising to see him taking the next step. That said, he's running a bit hot and will likely cool off in the back half of the season. His playing style and skillset should lead to a higher on ice sh% (especially playing alongside guys like Guenther and Keller), but he's at 12.9% 5v5 and 15.9% in all situations - that should probably be closer to 10% and 12-13% respectively.

If he plays all 82 games, I'd expect him to finish around 65-70 points instead of the 75 that he's on pace for.


Here is the list of U21 centers with a higher PPG than Cooley since the lockout:

Crosby
McDavid
Malkin
Stamkos
Matthews
Hughes
Stutzle
Barzal
Pettersson
Kopitar
Eichel

That's pretty good company, especially when you consider the list of players he's ahead of:

Bergeron
Barkov
Bedard
Celebrini
Draisaitl
Tavares
Toews
Seguin
Backstrom
Seguin
Aho
Mackinnon
Duchene
Hischier
Getzlaf
O'Reilly
Giroux
Thomas
Point
Suzuki

These lists are chockfull of future hall of fame centers and Stanley cup winners.

Cooley is tracking to be a top 10 center in his prime. Thinking that he'd be redundant in Montreal because of Suzuki or Demidov is hilariously delusional. Fun fact - he has more points in 46 games than Suzuki had in 71 games at the same age.

I mean you win some you lose some
With cooley we would have been set at center with a hole at wing. Easier to fill the hole at wing than center, maybe dach takes slafs position.

I think that’s what happens in years where there is no clear cut #1, its possible you don’t get the best player. But i think you know better than to use the “better at the same age” argument.

I still do believe slaf is still figuring the game out though and will be a top 6 force in 2-3 years

 

[SallyBalls]

Okay mr professional, please educate me. What's incorrect about my statement that Cooley will likely regress?

The 1st thing you should test is to see if you have enough of a sample set to see if your analysis has statistical significance....

... You're just spitballing, then have the audacity to talk about analytics.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I mean you win some you lose some
With cooley we would have been set at center with a hole at wing. Easier to fill the hole at wing than center, maybe dach takes slafs position.

I think that’s what happens in years where there is no clear cut #1, its possible you don’t get the best player.

I still do believe slaf is still figuring the game out though

Slaf was a solid pick, and I don't think the Habs should regret taking him at all. He's gonna be a great player for a long time.

But to say Cooley would have been redundant is a bit silly. Every team in the league could use a player like that.

The 1st thing you should test is to see if you have enough of a sample set to see if your analysis has statistical significance....

... You're just spitballing, then have the audacity to talk about analytics.

The sample size of thousands of players across thousands of games over the last 15+ seasons suggests that a 13% on ice shooting percentage is not sustainable at 5v5.

 

[Voight]

The trouble is it’s a moot debate. In 2022 I was very happy with Slaf, in 2023 I was pissed and I believed we made a big mistake that we passed on Michkov. In both cases, it’s an academic debate because both Cooley (who’s never been my cup of tea) and Michkov are redundant with the addition of Laine and Demidov.

 

[Lshap]

Guess what? I got a fever and the only prescription is...

Logan Cowbell?

 

[Lshap]

This thread sounds exactly like a similar thread last year, when most people proclaimed Slafkovsky better than Cooley because of Slaf's (almost) PPG second half. How naive we were back when those kids were 19.

Thank goodness the debate is finally settled now that both are 20.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Cooley has been awesome this year, not too surprising to see him taking the next step. That said, he's running a bit hot and will likely cool off in the back half of the season. His playing style and skillset should lead to a higher on ice sh% (especially playing alongside guys like Guenther and Keller), but he's at 12.9% 5v5 and 15.9% in all situations - that should probably be closer to 10% and 12-13% respectively.

If he plays all 82 games, I'd expect him to finish around 65-70 points instead of the 75 that he's on pace for.


Here is the list of U21 centers with a higher PPG than Cooley since the lockout:

Crosby
McDavid
Malkin
Stamkos
Matthews
Hughes
Stutzle
Barzal
Pettersson
Kopitar
Eichel

That's pretty good company, especially when you consider the list of players he's ahead of:

Bergeron
Barkov
Bedard
Celebrini
Draisaitl
Tavares
Toews
Seguin
Backstrom
Seguin
Aho
Mackinnon
Duchene
Hischier
Getzlaf
O'Reilly
Giroux
Thomas
Point
Suzuki

These lists are chockfull of future hall of fame centers and Stanley cup winners.

Cooley is tracking to be a top 10 center in his prime. Thinking that he'd be redundant in Montreal because of Suzuki or Demidov is hilariously delusional. Fun fact - he has more points in 46 games than Suzuki had in 71 games at the same age.

Good thing that the best player of that 2022 draft is part of the Habs tho...

 

[tfwnogf]

If you understood statistical regression, you would understand why I expect Cooley's pace to slow.

It's the same sort of analysis that I used to make this prediction back in 2022, when he only had 1 goal in his first 30 games.

View attachment 964595

I appreciate your dedication at debating the most trivial stuff on here, but giving yourself props 3 years later for some half baked prediction is embarrassing.

 

[Sheppy]

I was on the fence about keeping him in my fantasy league. Not a bad waiver pick up this year.

 

[PainForShane]

I love how you randomly theorize with little to no substance in your analysis. Lines like "i expect" and "should lead to". Randomly stabbing in the dark.

The air of superiority....

Anyone with time, care to go through whiskey's 36k posts and list his hits and misses... To use a "Whiskey-ism", "I suspect" he's missed more than he has hit over time.

So... whenever I see a post by Whiskey I cringe because imo about a third of the time his 'analysis' is in extremely bad faith, things like cherry picking data sets, pretending basic knowledge doesn't apply etc. When ppl call out his arguments (which tends to happen often), he consistently doubles down instead of actually addressing the criticism. And then you combine that with various random cringe like "oh look at this take I had three years ago," obvi if anyone claims a hundred different things over the years they're going to be right at least sometimes.

All that to say I don't think anyone should take the time to go through Whiskey's 36k posts or re-read his literal hundreds of past arguments. I literally can't imagine a bigger waste of time.

***

Regarding Cooley / Slaf, 100% agree with multiple points that @waitin425 made above. As a Yotes fan, Cooley's been good and probably better than Slaf so far this year, but both these kids are so, so young so why do we care about their early career production / impact when neither team is going to make the playoffs this year anyway. Also everyone knows power forwards take longer to develop so we should expect them to track differently.

Anyway both players (and teams) are developing well and should help both teams make playoffs sometime in the next few years. Not sure why some Devils fan is proactively using this opportunity to try and clown on the Habs but whatever

 

[Doublechin]

Caufield Suzuki Demidov
Laine Cooley Dach

How is that not way better than the alternative for next year?

Two ppg centers, 2 elite goal scorers, one potential elite scorer/playmaker and a dude with size that can score 25

Add Hutson, Guhle, Evans at the 3C and solid keeping and you've got all it takes to be a serious playoff contender

 

[mphmiles]

Don't see the need to bring Slafkovsky into this thread about Cooley.

Last year Cooley's tools were obvious, but like most 19 year olds he was still figuring out how to put them together. This year he's starting to do that and it's awesome to see.

Between the skating, hands, shot, IQ, and compete, I think he has everything he needs to be a top 5-10 C in the game in his prime.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Laine making Cooley redundant is one of the funniest takes I've seen in a while. Thanks for that.

 

[SallyBalls]

So... whenever I see a post by Whiskey I cringe because imo about a third of the time his 'analysis' is in extremely bad faith, things like cherry picking data sets, pretending basic knowledge doesn't apply etc. When ppl call out his arguments (which tends to happen often), he consistently doubles down instead of actually addressing the criticism. And then you combine that with various random cringe like "oh look at this take I had three years ago," obvi if anyone claims a hundred different things over the years they're going to be right at least sometimes.

All that to say I don't think anyone should take the time to go through Whiskey's 36k posts or re-read his literal hundreds of past arguments. I literally can't imagine a bigger waste of time.

***

Regarding Cooley / Slaf, 100% agree with multiple points that @waitin425 made above. As a Yotes fan, Cooley's been good and probably better than Slaf so far this year, but both these kids are so, so young so why do we care about their early career production / impact when neither team is going to make the playoffs this year anyway. Also everyone knows power forwards take longer to develop so we should expect them to track differently.

Anyway both players (and teams) are developing well and should help both teams make playoffs sometime in the next few years. Not sure why some Devils fan is proactively using this opportunity to try and clown on the Habs but whatever

Bolded for truth.

+ Wants to talk a stats game, then when he is put in his place his retort "well you dont know hockey analytics".

He probably goes to a doctor for a diagnosis then proceeds to tell the doc that he's wrong and that he knows better.

Cooley vs Slaff. Too early to call, both Utah and Montreal got a couple of good kids. The devils on the other hand - bahahaha.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Bolded for truth.

+ Wants to talk a stats game, then when he is put in his place his retort "well you dont know hockey analytics".

You asked me to check the sample size for proving the sustainability on ice sh%. lol sure did put me in my place

 

[SallyBalls]

You asked me to check the sample size for proving the sustainability on ice sh%. lol sure did put me in my place

Exhibit A