OT: LOCAL COVID19 - PART IV... Seriously, local only

[JD1]

Roll call!

I don't think we need another protest but that dude sure was initiating it

 

[coladin]

This is disingenuous. It's been well established that deaths are a lagging indicator. What we're seeing recently is a massive uptick in cases. Deaths are going to follow — not to the same extent as past waves, of course, because vaccines work. But these are all preventable deaths that we're not doing enough to prevent.

 

[GCK]

Interesting that there are OPP and RCMP officers helping in downtown Ottawa this weekend. I was told repeatedly that we needed the Emergencies Act enabled for that. Hmmm

 

[Micklebot]

Interesting that there are OPP and RCMP officers helping in downtown Ottawa this weekend. I was told repeatedly that we needed the Emergencies Act enabled for that. Hmmm

What? Nobod credible person should have said that, we had OPP coming over well before the emergency act was invoked. The emergency act allowed them (RCMP ect) to enforce bylaws and provincial offences that were otherwise outside their jurisdiction, allowed them to ban travel for the purpose of protesting into certain zones, and gave the power to freeze accounts.

These powers clearly make a difference in how effective they could be, you can certainly argue whether it was necessary but let's not pretend they could have done everything they did without them.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

I don't think we need another protest but that dude sure was initiating it

Ya that guy seemed like an asshole. Let people have their stupid little protest and move on after the weekend.

 

[GCK]

What? Nobod credible person should have said that, we had OPP coming over well before the emergency act was invoked. The emergency act allowed them (RCMP ect) to enforce bylaws and provincial offences that were otherwise outside their jurisdiction, allowed them to ban travel for the purpose of protesting into certain zones, and gave the power to freeze accounts.

These powers clearly make a difference in how effective they could be, you can certainly argue whether it was necessary but let's not pretend they could have done everything they did without them.

The city was able to ban traffic this weekend during the protest. The only thing the Emergencies Act gave them was the power to freeze accounts. All the other “reasons” were lies of expediency. If the Feds had just been honest I’d be less critical.

 

[StoicSensFan]

Ya that guy seemed like an asshole. Let people have their stupid little protest and move on after the weekend.

I wish there were more people like him challenging and questioning the protesters to make them not feel welcome. Ottawa residents have put up with enough of that nonsense.

 

[Xspyrit]

Nothing wrong against any type of protest. Just no weapons and motor vehicles allowed. Period.


It was weird that trucks were allowed during the convoy this winter. That should be prohibited under any circumstance

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

I wish there were more people like him challenging and questioning the protesters to make them not feel welcome. Ottawa residents have put up with enough of that nonsense.

Ya fair enough. It must be getting beyond annoying for Ottawa residents. It sucks that these protests are always happening at the same locations.

 

[Micklebot]

The city was able to ban traffic this weekend during the protest. The only thing the Emergencies Act gave them was the power to freeze accounts. All the other “reasons” were lies of expediency. If the Feds had just been honest I’d be less critical.

This just isn't really being honest, yes, they can shut down streets for a protest. No, they can't prevent people who don't live downtown from entering downtown. No, RCMP cannot enforce Provincial laws or Bylaws. I explained three things that changed with the emergency act, you've decided to sidestep that and talk about a power they had but were no longer in a position to actually do once trucks had set up their blockade. It's irrelevant that they could close streets by the time they realized what the protesters were doing. It was too late at that point.

 

[GCK]

This just isn't really being honest, yes, they can shut down streets for a protest. No, they can't prevent people who don't live downtown from entering downtown. No, RCMP cannot enforce Provincial laws or Bylaws. I explained three things that changed with the emergency act, you've decided to sidestep that and talk about a power they had but were no longer in a position to actually do once trucks had set up their blockade. It's irrelevant that they could close streets by the time they realized what the protesters were doing. It was too late at that point.

RCMP officers can enforce laws from other jurisdictions if they are sworn in, the Emergency Act just allows them to bypass the swearing in.

As for the second bolded. They could have shutdown the result of diesel by shutting down the Coventry staging area.

Government mistakes is no excuse for government overreach.

 

[Micklebot]

RCMP officers can enforce laws from other jurisdictions if they are sworn in, the Emergency Act just allows them to bypass the swearing in.

As for the second bolded. They could have shutdown the result of diesel by shutting down the Coventry staging area.

Government mistakes is no excuse for government overreach.

Shutting down one staging area just leads to them finding another. You still haven't addressed restricting access which was a big factor in how they shut things down.

It's just not honest to say they could do everything they did without the emergency act, or to as you did, imply the excuse for the emergency act was to do things they already had the power to do. I'm not taking a strong stance on whether it was required or not, I just think your post was highly misleading and doesn't further the debate, anyways this is getting into politics and really isn't appropriate for here so I won't be going any further.

 

[GCK]

Shutting down one staging area just leads to them finding another. You still haven't addressed restricting access which was a big factor in how they shut things down.

It's just not honest to say they could do everything they did without the emergency act, or to as you did, imply the excuse for the emergency act was to do things they already had the power to do. I'm not taking a strong stance on whether it was required or not, I just think your post was highly misleading and doesn't further the debate, anyways this is getting into politics and really isn't appropriate for here so I won't be going any further.

Other than freezing accounts everything else WAS doable. There was no need to restrict the movement of people in and out on foot, but there easily could have been checkpoints to stop diesel and food from coming in. We will never agree, but I’d have preferred that the Pandora’s box had not been opened. I had hoped the review would have shed more light on the situation but the Liberals have invoked Cabinet confidence to restrict access to vital info, unless this has changed in the past couple days.

 

[JD1]

This just isn't really being honest, yes, they can shut down streets for a protest. No, they can't prevent people who don't live downtown from entering downtown. No, RCMP cannot enforce Provincial laws or Bylaws. I explained three things that changed with the emergency act, you've decided to sidestep that and talk about a power they had but were no longer in a position to actually do once trucks had set up their blockade. It's irrelevant that they could close streets by the time they realized what the protesters were doing. It was too late at that point.

The purpose of the Emergency Act was to go after the financial assets of people ideologically opposed to the government. There wasn't a single thing from a policing point of view that couldn't have been accomplished without it.

 

[Tuna99]

The purpose of the Emergency Act was to go after the financial assets of people ideologically opposed to the government. There wasn't a single thing from a policing point of view that couldn't have been accomplished without it.

That’s a bit unfair, dark money from the USA has ruined their politics and that has to be kept out of Canada for obvious reasons.

I’m not a fan of The emergencies act but stopping dark money from American Oligarchs (and to a lesser extent Canadian oligarchs) is essential for our democracy to be safe

 

[JD1]

That’s a bit unfair, dark money from the USA has ruined their politics and that has to be kept out of Canada for obvious reasons.

I’m not a fan of The emergencies act but stopping dark money from American Oligarchs (and to a lesser extent Canadian oligarchs) is essential for our democracy to be safe

What exactly does dark money mean?

 

[Tuna99]

What exactly does dark money mean?

Mass amounts of Money from a single or small amount of donors (relative ie climate denial or if you want to take out a Presidential candidates repautation it would take more money then organizing a thousand truckers) that is disguised from its sources who’s intention is to disrupt and influence politics or social causes.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

It was never about covid or mandates.

It Can't Happen Here.....it's happening. Here and all over western civilization.

 

[Tuna99]

It was never about covid or mandates.

It Can't Happen Here.....it's happening. Here and all over western civilization.

What do you mean?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

What do you mean?

You've never read that novel? You really should. It's quite scary how relevant it is today (especially looking at the last 7 years in the USA).

 

[Tuna99]

You've never read that novel? You really should. It's quite scary how relevant it is today (especially looking at the last 7 years in the USA).

Okay, just looked it up and it was published in 1935 which is also when Kyrill Karprizov was born, and no I have never read it

 

[Golden_Jet]

The city was able to ban traffic this weekend during the protest. The only thing the Emergencies Act gave them was the power to freeze accounts. All the other “reasons” were lies of expediency. If the Feds had just been honest I’d be less critical.

It also forced tow truck drivers , to pick up the transports, when they refused before.

 

[GCK]

It also forced tow truck drivers , to pick up the transports, when they refused before.

That could have been accomplished with the province revoking the towing license of any owner/operator refusing to do the job. Completely within provincial rights.

 

[Micklebot]

That could have been accomplished with the province revoking the towing license of any owner/operator refusing to do the job. Completely within provincial rights.

Under what grounds could they revoke the license? That seems like gov't overreach to me, revoking a license because a private business doesn't want to accept a contract? Province isn't even the one issuing tow licenses...

Perhaps you meant they could have cancelled the standing offer/supply arrangements they had, assuming the SA or SO had a clause allowing them to?

 

[GCK]

Under what grounds could they revoke the license? That seems like gov't overreach to me, revoking a license because a private business doesn't want to accept a contract? Province isn't even the one issuing tow licenses...

Perhaps you meant they could have cancelled the standing offer/supply arrangements they had, assuming the SA or SO had a clause allowing them to?

Owner/Operators are not allowed to refuse jobs as per the licensing agreement apparently.