OT: LOCAL COVID19 - PART IV... Seriously, local only

Status
Not open for further replies.

Knave

Registered User
Mar 6, 2007
21,822
2,438
Ottawa
it’s actually a great thing the protesters haven’t been attacked. People are so used to violence and police brutality common sense people see violence as the best way to do things. That’s what is really scary, not a bunch of heavy cholestoraled dudes in camo with nothing better to do, it’s the common citizen Who wants to see a police attack -
That is the real worry - this is how societies crumble not from a 5000 organized people with parking breaks, it’s when good people go bad.

the people who want violence to end this thing are closer to Nazis then the people they call Nazis.

Ah yes. "It's great the people attacking other people haven't been attacked".

No. I'm nothing like a Nazi. You think a minority of people should be able to disrupt the lives of everyone else to gain power over them. That's how the Nazis rose to power. They didn't peacefully demonstrate. They harassed. They intimidated.

What have we seen in downtown Ottawa? Harassment. Intimidation. Threats. Violence.

And what did it take to stop the Nazis again? Was it a stern talking to Tuna? You seem to be very concerned with Canada's actions when it comes to Nazis and Nazi-like people. Maybe you could educate me on how the Nazis were stopped and how they weren't stopped. Let me know what worked and what didn't.

Your comparison is awful once again...
 
Last edited:

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
15,850
7,825
Ah yes. "It's great the people attacking other people haven't been attacked".

No. I'm nothing like a Nazi. You are the Nazi here. You think a minority of people should be able to disrupt the lives of everyone else to gain power over them. That's how the Nazis rose to power. They didn't peacefully demonstrate. They harassed. They intimidated.

What have we seen in downtown Ottawa? Harassment. Intimidation. Threats. Violence.

And what did it take to stop the Nazis again? Was it a stern talking to Tuna? You seem to be very concerned with Canada's actions when it comes to Nazis and Nazi-like people. Maybe you could educate me on how the Nazis were stopped and how they weren't stopped. Let me know what worked and what didn't.

Your comparison is awful once again...

everyone? I listen to TSN1200 everyday and they are 200 meters from the demonstration and nothing has happened there. We are from Ottawa. Almost no one I know has been impacted - they don’t like it but real impact just isn’t happening to 99.9% of the Ottawa population.

And when people who aren’t really bothering and you want to see their heads bashed in that’s the really worrying thing.

If you didn’t know we lived in a racist country before 2 weeks, here’s your wake up call. For those of us who know the actual underbelly of this country, this is our country on display. I don’t like it either; but I certainly don’t want anyone to get hurt just because I don’t like their politics
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sensmileletsgo

Knave

Registered User
Mar 6, 2007
21,822
2,438
Ottawa
everyone? I listen to TSN1200 everyday and they are 200 meters from the demonstration and nothing has happened there. We are from Ottawa. Almost no one I know has been impacted - they don’t like it but real impact just isn’t happening to 99.9% of the Ottawa population.

And when people who aren’t really bothering you want to see their heads bashed in that’s the really worrying thing.

mid you didn’t know we lived in a racist country before 2 weeks, here’s your wake up call.

Oh okay. TSN1200. You got your finger on the pulse here.

Still dodging the question of what it took to get rid of extremists who wanted and managed to overthrow an elected government (the Nazis).

What was the mission statement of the protest again? Oh yeah, Trudeau resigns and they take power despite being unelected.

Their methods? Occupation mixed in with intimidation and threats. But sure, TSN1200 glossing over it must mean I am wrong.

These people need to be removed forcibly. That's violence. I am okay with that. We should not accept fascists getting their way because we're afraid they might get hurt.
 

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
15,850
7,825
Oh okay. TSN1200. You got your finger on the pulse here.

Still dodging the question of what it took to get rid of extremists who wanted and managed to overthrow an elected government (the Nazis).

What was the mission statement of the protest again? Oh yeah, Trudeau resigns and they take power despite being unelected.

Their methods? Occupation mixed in with intimidation and threats. But sure, TSN1200 glossing over it must mean I am wrong.

it took WW2, relax man, this is a demonstration not a coup.

its just history to call the right Nazis and the left communist so your just beating a drum of nonsense that never goes away and never proves to be true.

but you seem to be on high alert so stay vigilant and watch out for those Nazis
 

Knave

Registered User
Mar 6, 2007
21,822
2,438
Ottawa
it took WW2, relax man, this is a demonstration not a coup.

its just history to call the right Nazis and the left communist so your just beating a drum of nonsense that never goes away and never proves to be true.

but you seem to be on high alert so stay vigilant and watch out for those Nazis

What do you think people first thought of the Nazis and their intimidation? We should not let this fester. If people need to be forcibly removed or arrested then so be it.

You just seem very concerned with protecting a group of people who do not care about democracy or freedom. A group that some might even describe as Nazi-like in their employment of intimidation, threats, violence, occupations and their demands to remove Trudeau and put in power a bunch of unelected individuals (what's that called again? When unelected people are put in charge by a violent extremist minority?).

I don't think Ottawa or Canada are in deep, deep trouble but if you accept this situation you embolden fascists and their movement grows. You have to stamp it out.
 

aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
29,281
9,984
Besides this convoy there are a lot of innocent people living, working & being about their lives in the downtown corrider. We have seen on TV that some of these convoy people have brought weapons with them & have said they are prepared to use them if the other side shows any force to remove them, hence the stalemate. I assume & hope that governments both federally & provincially will eventually back down & begin to reduce & withdraw some mandates to appease these people to avoid violence & a gun fight in downtown Ottawa with Canadian citizens. We need these convoy people to be resonable, but we also need government to be more reasonable as well. Some of this also lies at the feet of all governments in that if they were not such total douche bags & liars maybe people would believe them a little more. Hopefully, our scientists & doctors are much more trutworthy & have been telling us the truth since it's next to impossible to believe any politician from any political party.

The problem is that a number of businnesses are the ones who have mandated that their employees be vaxed & not the government. A friend of mine did not want to get vaxed, but because he is a brick layer the sites where his company did business was demanding that all contractor's emplyees on their stites be vaxed. I don't know how these protesters can change what private companies are doing? Unfortunately, there are also a number of people who are hiding among this convoy who are anarchists or attention seekers or are out to just create trouble & they need to be weeded out as well. Covid numbers are dropping which should help push this closer to a resolution, but we could be here until the spring too.

The government did not tell my friend's business to demand that the people on site be vaxed it was the business operating the project that has demanded it for eveyone's safety & to avoid unacceptable delays in the project moving forward should someone get covid & they have to close the site down for a while. His business could not afford to send them to where a vax restriction is not in place since most of the sites where they operate were demanding the same thing & they didn't want to lose the business. How many people who are vaxed want to be around people who are not? The only way to assure that everyone is somewhat safe is to assure everyone is vaxed, not being vaxed & Covid continuing to linger around costs businesses money. If my friend doesn't work he doesn't get paid & we all know the consequences of not having enough money to pay the bills in a captilistic society.

If half your staff/employees are vaxed & don't want to work with unvaxed people than what to you do? Are the unvaxed now going to demand they fire the vaxed instead when over 80% of Canadians have been vaxed? It becomes a never ending circle jerk of loud mouths yelling at each other with no reasonable conclusion. No PM or parliamentarian I would hope would or should engage in violence against their own people. But the people who live in this city have rights & freedoms too & this convoy does not seem bothered to inconvenience them in any way. A slow methodical approach where both sides engage & publicly denounce violence is what is best for everyone concerned. We don't want to see a gun fight if there are children down there & we don't want to see parents dragged off to jail in front of their children, this isn't the US. We want the adults in the room to talk & resolve this peacefully so we can return to some normalcy in our lives.

The Peace Bridge is different in that it affects the economy & if there is one thing rich people hate more than anything it's losing money on both sides of the border. If you think there are shortages now throughout the economy if this isn't solved soon the stores will be even more empty with more idiots thinking they need to do something & will join the melle. The police IMO will eventually remove these people & their vehicles, but hopefully the fines will be enough to make these guys think twice about what this could cost them in real money. Where does one person's freedoms end & mine begin? Just a thought.
 
Last edited:

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
15,850
7,825
What do you think people first thought of the Nazis and their intimidation? We should not let this fester. If people need to be forcibly removed or arrested then so be it.

You just seem very concerned with protecting a group of people who do not care about democracy or freedom. A group that some might even describe as Nazi-like in their employment of intimidation, threats, violence, occupations and their demands to remove Trudeau and put in power a bunch of unelected individuals (what's that called again? When unelected people are put in charge by a violent extremist minority?).

I don't think Ottawa or Canada are in deep, deep trouble but if you accept this situation you embolden fascists and their movement grows. You have to stamp it out.

how does a huge night of violence solve this. Give me your long term view if the cops actually descend on and arrest and hurt these people? Do they just go away and never come back or do they seek revenge and does it create sympathy for their cause? Do they use the images to raise funds and grow their movement and return ready for violence?

just don’t see how violence from cops helps this
 
Last edited:

Stylizer1

Teflon Don
Jun 12, 2009
19,885
3,978
Ottabot City
Yes and even those less nasty than those with a violent political agenda, some conspiracist groups are actually making a lot of money thanks to their sheeple. See below, sorry it's in french :

Trois mois chez les complotistes québécois

Crazy how gullible people can be. The only reality is there is a virus that has killed or "damaged" a lot of people. Of course, humanity has done a lot trying to prevent deaths/suffering

What is so hard to understand here? I mean, it's been 2 years. Pretty much reaching "the Earth is flat" stupidity level

But maybe birds aren't real for real?

Birds Aren’t Real, or Are They? Inside a Gen Z Conspiracy Theory.
Yeah, you said it. lol
 

Here I Pageau Again

Registered User
Jul 4, 2012
8,296
2,904
I agree with the spirit, but I think a distinction needs to be made here. Violence comes out when the protestors respond to enforcement with violence. If they go peacefully, there's no reason this needs to escalate.

(That being said, these buffoons have shown who they are. It'll escalate to violence, or at the very least resistance. But a concerted and deliberate effort does need to be made to clear them out without violence first. The basic fundamentals of crowd control that Ottawa Police hasn't even appeared to attempt yet.)

We already know they haven't gone peacefully. They had an injunction and still have not gone. At a certain point, you need to do something to get our economy back up and running. Now I'm not saying you have to be violent, but they need to be moved. They need to be arrested and the lanes need to be opened up.
 

thinkwild

Veni Vidi Toga
Jul 29, 2003
11,048
1,715
Ottawa
That there are people in the Ottawa occupation saying they have guns they will use if forcibly removed, that would seem to be the line crossed into domestic terrorism no?

If going back to normal means people getting chemo are in the hospital and no unvaccinated with covid are taking away their spaces, then maybe we have room for a compromise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DylanSensFan

slamigo

Skate or Die!
Dec 25, 2007
6,454
3,846
Ottawa
how does a huge night of violence solve this. Give me your long term view if the cops actually descend on and arrest and hurt these people? Do they just go away and never come back or do they seek revenge and does it create sympathy for their cause? Do they use the images to raise funds and grow their movement and return ready for violence?

just don’t see how violence from cops helps this
This needs to end peacefully. However, police should show up at these protesters' homes with arrest warrants in the weeks and months to come and those that openly broke the law and laid siege to a city must be held accountable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Raze The Stray

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
31,641
10,553
Montreal, Canada
lol I wonder if the convoy will think that "things going back to normal" was the result of their protest/blockage? (having a city in hostage in reality)

Lift up restrictions was always the plan, measures are temporary to face the hospitalization peaks. We saw this several times in 2020 and 2021

I have a friend who did not get vaccinated and who is a caregiver. She has been on sick leave and she was scared that she would lose her job because she was not going to get the vaccine. A few months ago, I told her to "gain some time" until the spring/summer and the passport will be gone by then. Didn't even need to do that in the end.

Yes the government used means of pressure to convince people to get vaccinated but in the end, Canada is one of the "smoothest" government in the world. Crazy that some people still complain, even to the point of having cities in hostage. 2 weeks later and the government hasn't even used any type of force. I'd be surprised to see this anywhere else (Edit : not saying this is right or wrong)
 

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
15,850
7,825
This needs to end peacefully. However, police should show up at these protesters' homes with arrest warrants in the weeks and months to come and those that openly broke the law and laid siege to a city must be held accountable.

for sure they should be fining every truck that is there $1000 and hour and they’ll all leave after a couple of days - but we always knew going into this there would be about 10-20% of the population that didn’t want to get Vax Ed and had some weird thoughts. It’s been comboed into an ugly package with some racist and nationalistic realities of our country, but beating these people back won’t solve anything.

it’s a real political problem for this country and relying on the police to solve it is the wrong thing to do. All the politicians are terrified of this and won’t touch it and want the cops to sweep it up and make it go away, but it has to be addressed and violence only makes that side dig in and have a rallying call for their cause
 

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
15,850
7,825
What a tone-deaf response from Watson. The police resources haven't been making a difference, it's why citizens felt empowered to counter-protest. I swear, between the City Council infighting, the LRT boondoggle and now this, nobody's tanked their legacy more in recent years than Watson.

Jim Watson should retire and Zub should become the Mayor for 24 hours and this entire thing would be solved in no time - and todays a players day off so Zub would be ready for practice tomorrow at 1pm.
 

aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
29,281
9,984
I wonder if there would have been a downtown arena if the truckers would have blockaded it to further their misguided point? Lebreton is just down the road from Parliament Hill & the War Museum is across the road where the Blues Fest used to have some great concerts & lots of room for tents & hot tubs. Probably wouldn't inconvenience enough people to satisfy the organizers though seeing how next no one has been allowed to go to games.

On another note, that will really make these Convoy people happy Bill Gates announced some time ago actually that there will be more viruses & pandemics in our future & likely worse than Covid. Thanks Bill, surely there is some island you philanthropists can go to get away from it all & avoid this inconvenience?
 

Stylizer1

Teflon Don
Jun 12, 2009
19,885
3,978
Ottabot City
That there are people in the Ottawa occupation saying they have guns they will use if forcibly removed, that would seem to be the line crossed into domestic terrorism no?

If going back to normal means people getting chemo are in the hospital and no unvaccinated with covid are taking away their spaces, then maybe we have room for a compromise.
This was never the issue. The issue has always been that the government houses elderly people in hospitals waiting to get into long term care.
 

FunkySeeFunkyDoo

Registered User
Feb 3, 2009
5,198
2,868
Ottawa
This was never the issue. The issue has always been that the government houses elderly people in hospitals waiting to get into long term care.
Actually the issue is that our healthcares system operates at the thinest of margins... 95% to 97% occupancy during normal times (*** see NOTE below). There are a bunch of different factors for this, including the one you cite.

Because of that, our public health officials and politicians have to be ultra-cautious, otherwise they envision a scenario where the hospitals are overflowing and people die due to lack of space. Hence the rapid and draconian response to the Omicron wave.

For me to take the freedom convoy seriously THAT is what they should be protesting and proposing solutions to. I won't pretend like I'm listening to any of their press conferences or instagram videos or whatever, but I'm pretty sure they haven't mentioned it.

*** NOTE - I'm using that 95-97% number from memory of a conversation I had with my wife before the last provincial election. I assume she was correct but I haven't cross checked it.
 

FunkySeeFunkyDoo

Registered User
Feb 3, 2009
5,198
2,868
Ottawa
Jim Watson should retire and Zub should become the Mayor for 24 hours and this entire thing would be solved in no time - and todays a players day off so Zub would be ready for practice tomorrow at 1pm.
My choice would be Nick Paul.

A five minute meeting between him, Sloly, Tamara Lich, Doug Ford and Justin Trudeau... and boom, problem solved.
 

Stylizer1

Teflon Don
Jun 12, 2009
19,885
3,978
Ottabot City
Actually the issue is that our healthcares system operates at the thinest of margins... 95% to 97% occupancy during normal times (*** see NOTE below). There are a bunch of different factors for this, including the one you cite.

Because of that, our public health officials and politicians have to be ultra-cautious, otherwise they envision a scenario where the hospitals are overflowing and people die due to lack of space. Hence the rapid and draconian response to the Omicron wave.

For me to take the freedom convoy seriously THAT is what they should be protesting and proposing solutions to. I won't pretend like I'm listening to any of their press conferences or instagram videos or whatever, but I'm pretty sure they haven't mentioned it.

*** NOTE - I'm using that 95-97% number from memory of a conversation I had with my wife before the last provincial election. I assume she was correct but I haven't cross checked it.
People who work in LTC have been protesting the government for ages to fix the problem they created. To pin it on a once in a century epidemic is very convenient. We are not even sure at this point if the shortages of beds in LTC will even be addressed. With the growing staff issue's at these places because the private sector only run off of the minimum standards set by the governments, there will be no solution getting elderly people out of hospitals anytime soon. This is why even before Covid it still took a year to have a knee replaced. Shortages of family doctors is also a huge contributing factor.

As for the freedom convoy I think their views represent much of the frustration many of us have. The 9-5 laptop/boomer generation are not this movements allies. These are the people who protest from home, on twitter. Had the trucker movement been a little more organized and thought it out more like actually following at least the mask guidelines while supporting the stores downtown they would have gained even more support. All of those businesses benefiting from the influx of customers would have been a win win situation. Instead they chose to a game plan which was less effective and unbalanced.
 

SPF6ty9

Registered User
Feb 22, 2016
2,471
2,451
Caca Poopoo Peepee Shire
There is no side I like in all this. Ugh, being an adult sucks.

But man I hope as covid rules lighten that people spend more time offline and become more cordial with each other. Feel like I've never had to use more tact in conversation to make sure I don't accidentally say something political haha.

That said I'll break that here, let MDZ be mayor. He'd probably sell the naming rights to city hall to Playboy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sensmileletsgo

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
15,850
7,825
My choice would be Nick Paul.

A five minute meeting between him, Sloly, Tamara Lich, Doug Ford and Justin Trudeau... and boom, problem solved.

Nick Paul does it all. Maybe trade him to Detroit after to solve the bridge issues
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Ad

Ad