Line Combos: Lines you expect to see vs what you want to see

[Gniwder]

Did I also watch Pittsburgh win the cup in '22-'23 with their league leading hit count? Over the last 10 seasons the Cup winner has finished top 10 in hits 4 times. You're as likely to miss the playoffs as you are to do well if you look at hit count. As a measure of how a team plays or how successful a team is, hitting is completely irrelevant.

Checking is an element of the sport. Obviously a bunch of enforcers aren't going to win a Cup. There's something called balance, which is hard for you to understand.

You're also completely ignoring the fact that playoff hockey is played differently than regular season hockey, otherwise the President Trophy winner would have way more Cups. Playoff games are way more physical, Vegas made it to the finals the first time with physical play and not much else. Wings probably had the least physical Cup teams, but even then you can't deny that having McCarty or Brad Stuart didn't make a difference.

Also, the past few years enforcers are making a come back, probably due to the physical play in the playoffs. Zadorov just got a 6 year $30M contract THIS SUMMER, and we both can agree it's not because of his defensive skills.

 

[Gniwder]

He at least has good hand eye for tipping picks and a big frame to screen

He screens well. His ability to tip the puck is average at best. He does jam home loose pucks when given the chance.

I have yet to see him convert a back door play like the skill forwards on the team. It's frustrating to see him with the puck near the crease.

I'm hoping for the best and preparing for the worst, lol. It's been a while since he's been a regular on PP, so maybe he's improved.... we'll see.

 

[norrisnick]

Checking is an element of the sport. Obviously a bunch of enforcers aren't going to win a Cup. There's something called balance, which is hard for you to understand.

You're also completely ignoring the fact that playoff hockey is played differently than regular season hockey, otherwise the President Trophy winner would have way more Cups. Playoff games are way more physical, Vegas made it to the finals the first time with physical play and not much else. Wings probably had the least physical Cup teams, but even then you can't deny that having McCarty or Brad Stuart didn't make a difference.

Also, the past few years enforcers are making a come back, probably due to the physical play in the playoffs. Zadorov just got a 6 year $30M contract THIS SUMMER, and we both can agree it's not because of his defensive skills.

Florida was the only team in last playoffs top-10 of hits/60 to make it out of the 2nd round. And they were 5th. Edmonton was 13th of 16 teams. There is no "balance" with regards to hitting that needs to be met. Being able to take a hit and continue is far more important to winning than dishing one out.

A plug in the bottom of the lineup running around and racking up hits has far less impact to winning than the top half of your lineup doing what they're supposed to be doing.

Zadorov is more overpaid than Copp and Chiarot combined.

 

[Gniwder]

Florida was the only team in last playoffs top-10 of hits/60 to make it out of the 2nd round. And they were 5th. Edmonton was 13th of 16 teams. There is no "balance" with regards to hitting that needs to be met. Being able to take a hit and continue is far more important to winning than dishing one out.

A plug in the bottom of the lineup running around and racking up hits has far less impact to winning than the top half of your lineup doing what they're supposed to be doing.

Zadorov is more overpaid than Copp and Chiarot combined.

Playoff hockey isn't the same, look at the stats. Tkachuk average 2 per game during the season 3 per game in postseason. Even Tank averaged close to 2 hits per game. The goal is to wear down the other team physically.

And as usual, you're trying to change the argument. Nobody is arguing for a bunch of enforcers. We'd all like to see a balanced lineup like Florida where almost everyone hits and can hold their own in a fight. When you have a roster full of softies like the Wings, that's when you wind up needing an enforcer.

Going back to Copp, 12 hits in 20 playoff games with the Rangers. 17 hits in 8 playoff games in the finals in his last season in Win. I didn't say he was always soft, he just doesn't hit since his injury. If I thought he'd be able to go back to throwing checks in the playoffs, I wouldn't complain as much. I don't think he fully recovered, especially since he's also noticeably slower now.

 

[norrisnick]

Playoff hockey isn't the same, look at the stats. Tkachuk average 2 per game during the season 3 per game in postseason. Even Tank averaged close to 2 hits per game. The goal is to wear down the other team physically.

And as usual, you're trying to change the argument. Nobody is arguing for a bunch of enforcers. We'd all like to see a balanced lineup like Florida where almost everyone hits and can hold their own in a fight. When you have a roster full of softies like the Wings, that's when you wind up needing an enforcer.

Going back to Copp, 12 hits in 20 playoff games with the Rangers. 17 hits in 8 playoff games in the finals in his last season in Win. I didn't say he was always soft, he just doesn't hit since his injury. If I thought he'd be able to go back to throwing checks in the playoffs, I wouldn't complain as much. I don't think he fully recovered, especially since he's also noticeably slower now.

Florida was 5th in hits per game in the playoffs last season. The only team in the top 10 (in the playoffs) in hits per 60 to make it out of the 2nd round.

I'm not changing the argument. My argument is chasing hits is a completely pointless endeavor with regards to winning hockey. Hits don't decide playoff games. Goals do.

You want to see more hits. That's fine. But don't paint it as some sort of "we have to be aggressively tougher to win" stance, because that's horseshit. The only thing that matters with regards to hitting is not letting it affect your play if you get hit.

 

[Frk It]

Florida was 5th in hits per game in the playoffs last season. The only team in the top 10 (in the playoffs) in hits per 60 to make it out of the 2nd round.

I'm not changing the argument. My argument is chasing hits is a completely pointless endeavor with regards to winning hockey. Hits don't decide playoff games. Goals do.

You want to see more hits. That's fine. But don't paint it as some sort of "we have to be aggressively tougher to win" stance, because that's horseshit. The only thing that matters with regards to hitting is not letting it affect your play if you get hit.

We’ve moved pretty far from the original argument at this point, but the original argument was silly.

There have been plenty of guys who didn’t put up a lot of hits but were anything but soft.

Like Zetterberg.

 

[Gniwder]

We’ve moved pretty far from the original argument at this point, but the original argument was silly.

There have been plenty of guys who didn’t put up a lot of hits but were anything but soft.

Like Zetterberg.

He wasn't considered tough either. You know the world isn't black or white.

Not to mention Z was elite in his ability to leverage and protect the puck. Please don't mention elite players like Zetterberg when we're talking about a chump like Copp. Z was better in his rookie season than Copp ever was.

 

[Ulysses31]

12 forwards, 7 D, 3 goailes i hear as of now, thats a holl conversation

 

[DoMakc]

I honestly don’t understand how a Red Wings fan can seriously advocate for more hitting. I guess bring aggressive and chasing others is what won all that Cups in 90ies and 00s, right? That‘s why they had arena named after boxer and were called Pizza Delivery Bullies? Igor Larionov was a famous Russian tough guy i guess. Some posters were hit too much during ball hockey games so their brains turned into marshmallow, that the only explanation for the ridiculously weak trolling attempts

 

[Henkka]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843738892761215120

Nice sense in there.

This will leave Motte-Copp, Veleno-Fischer on PK.

 

[Pavels Dog]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843738892761215120

Good. Gives Berggren a legit opportunity there with Seider and Debrincat.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

How has Albert Johansson looked so far???

 

[Henkka]

This was interesting find from pre-season games.

Out 3 best defensive pairs at xGF%.

That could be a Starting6, if we bench Petry.

Chiarot - Seider
Määttä - Edvinsson
Gustafsson - Johansson

 

[DoMakc]

Pre-season with a sample of 3-4 games for each mostly against AHL-level opponents? Sounds like legit stats

 

[lhsgolf19]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1844051300532756808

 

[Frk It]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1844051300532756808

I don't get this... He should either be the 1B or 2A for us. Hope they don't intend to trot him out as the 1A guy.

He has a .895 SV% in 75 games for us... Dude is just not good.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Good to see we're still obsessed with dressing a guy with ECHL level defense solely to bump Seider off #1PP.

I was hoping that was just to nerf his production for his contract year but no... Still doing it.

 

[Winger98]

I honestly don’t understand how a Red Wings fan can seriously advocate for more hitting. I guess bring aggressive and chasing others is what won all that Cups in 90ies and 00s, right? That‘s why they had arena named after boxer and were called Pizza Delivery Bullies? Igor Larionov was a famous Russian tough guy i guess. Some posters were hit too much during ball hockey games so their brains turned into marshmallow, that the only explanation for the ridiculously weak trolling attempts

those teams from the 90s that actually won cups were very physical. And, honestly, so was the Datsyuk/Zetterberg cup team.

 

[SoupNazi]

The copp comment was directed to someone else but I'd like to say I hated the copp signing from day 1 and found it laughable ppl thought a 40 pt guy would be our 2 c

Pics or it didn't happen.

 

[saska sault]

Can we get a game 1 thread going?

 

[Pavels Dog]

I don't get this... He should either be the 1B or 2A for us. Hope they don't intend to trot him out as the 1A guy.

He has a .895 SV% in 75 games for us... Dude is just not good.

He was the best goalie in the preseason. Doubtful we'll ride him like an 1A if he puts up a .895. Play him and see if he 1- stays healthy, 2- regains his form.

 

[jaster]

How has Albert Johansson looked so far???

Ok, but also some hiccups. I still have relatively high hopes for the kid, but there's going to be an adjustment period for him at the NHL level. The speed of the game caught him a little off-guard a few times in the preseason I think. Whether he gets through that adjustment period, and what he looks like if he does, is anyone's guess. My opinion is that he has tools that give him a high floor, which increases the likelihood that he successfully adjusts.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Game #1 overreaction adjustment for saturday:

Debrincat-Larkin-Kasper
Raymond-Compher-Kane
Rasmussen-Copp-Tarasenko
Fischer-Veleno-Motte
Berggren

Edvinsson-Seider
Määttä-Johansson
Gustafsson-Chiarot

Lyon
Talbot

 

[Ulysses31]

Game #1 overreaction adjustment for saturday:

Debrincat-Larkin-Kasper
Raymond-Compher-Kane
Rasmussen-Copp-Tarasenko
Fischer-Veleno-Motte
Berggren

Edvinsson-Seider
Määttä-Johansson
Gustafsson-Chiarot

Lyon
Talbot

like spliting up the 2nd line. sure kane is a great player, for passing shooting thinkin etc but lacks two way game n forecheck. add tank, who is a lot like a tank, stumpy, can bang in the corners with a hotzitzer but below average skating and that not only hinders a line but can hinder an entire team. sure i think overall kane n tank can b net positives for a team but others have to pick up the slack for what they lack in speed n 2 way game. both on the same line i thought from day 1 wouldnt work unless comp started on PEDS or something. add to that he couldnt win a faceoff in game 1.

 

[Henkka]

Top6 lines were abysmal.

Also the defence sucked outside of Chiarot-Seider.

Man, we could have deep holes in this team. I didn't like this at all.