Line Combos: Lines you expect to see vs what you want to see

[Gniwder]

Did I also watch Pittsburgh win the cup in '22-'23 with their league leading hit count? Over the last 10 seasons the Cup winner has finished top 10 in hits 4 times. You're as likely to miss the playoffs as you are to do well if you look at hit count. As a measure of how a team plays or how successful a team is, hitting is completely irrelevant.

Checking is an element of the sport. Obviously a bunch of enforcers aren't going to win a Cup. There's something called balance, which is hard for you to understand.

You're also completely ignoring the fact that playoff hockey is played differently than regular season hockey, otherwise the President Trophy winner would have way more Cups. Playoff games are way more physical, Vegas made it to the finals the first time with physical play and not much else. Wings probably had the least physical Cup teams, but even then you can't deny that having McCarty or Brad Stuart didn't make a difference.

Also, the past few years enforcers are making a come back, probably due to the physical play in the playoffs. Zadorov just got a 6 year $30M contract THIS SUMMER, and we both can agree it's not because of his defensive skills.

 

[Gniwder]

He at least has good hand eye for tipping picks and a big frame to screen

He screens well. His ability to tip the puck is average at best. He does jam home loose pucks when given the chance.

I have yet to see him convert a back door play like the skill forwards on the team. It's frustrating to see him with the puck near the crease.

I'm hoping for the best and preparing for the worst, lol. It's been a while since he's been a regular on PP, so maybe he's improved.... we'll see.

 

[norrisnick]

Checking is an element of the sport. Obviously a bunch of enforcers aren't going to win a Cup. There's something called balance, which is hard for you to understand.

You're also completely ignoring the fact that playoff hockey is played differently than regular season hockey, otherwise the President Trophy winner would have way more Cups. Playoff games are way more physical, Vegas made it to the finals the first time with physical play and not much else. Wings probably had the least physical Cup teams, but even then you can't deny that having McCarty or Brad Stuart didn't make a difference.

Also, the past few years enforcers are making a come back, probably due to the physical play in the playoffs. Zadorov just got a 6 year $30M contract THIS SUMMER, and we both can agree it's not because of his defensive skills.

Florida was the only team in last playoffs top-10 of hits/60 to make it out of the 2nd round. And they were 5th. Edmonton was 13th of 16 teams. There is no "balance" with regards to hitting that needs to be met. Being able to take a hit and continue is far more important to winning than dishing one out.

A plug in the bottom of the lineup running around and racking up hits has far less impact to winning than the top half of your lineup doing what they're supposed to be doing.

Zadorov is more overpaid than Copp and Chiarot combined.

 

[Gniwder]

Florida was the only team in last playoffs top-10 of hits/60 to make it out of the 2nd round. And they were 5th. Edmonton was 13th of 16 teams. There is no "balance" with regards to hitting that needs to be met. Being able to take a hit and continue is far more important to winning than dishing one out.

A plug in the bottom of the lineup running around and racking up hits has far less impact to winning than the top half of your lineup doing what they're supposed to be doing.

Zadorov is more overpaid than Copp and Chiarot combined.

Playoff hockey isn't the same, look at the stats. Tkachuk average 2 per game during the season 3 per game in postseason. Even Tank averaged close to 2 hits per game. The goal is to wear down the other team physically.

And as usual, you're trying to change the argument. Nobody is arguing for a bunch of enforcers. We'd all like to see a balanced lineup like Florida where almost everyone hits and can hold their own in a fight. When you have a roster full of softies like the Wings, that's when you wind up needing an enforcer.

Going back to Copp, 12 hits in 20 playoff games with the Rangers. 17 hits in 8 playoff games in the finals in his last season in Win. I didn't say he was always soft, he just doesn't hit since his injury. If I thought he'd be able to go back to throwing checks in the playoffs, I wouldn't complain as much. I don't think he fully recovered, especially since he's also noticeably slower now.

 

[norrisnick]

Playoff hockey isn't the same, look at the stats. Tkachuk average 2 per game during the season 3 per game in postseason. Even Tank averaged close to 2 hits per game. The goal is to wear down the other team physically.

And as usual, you're trying to change the argument. Nobody is arguing for a bunch of enforcers. We'd all like to see a balanced lineup like Florida where almost everyone hits and can hold their own in a fight. When you have a roster full of softies like the Wings, that's when you wind up needing an enforcer.

Going back to Copp, 12 hits in 20 playoff games with the Rangers. 17 hits in 8 playoff games in the finals in his last season in Win. I didn't say he was always soft, he just doesn't hit since his injury. If I thought he'd be able to go back to throwing checks in the playoffs, I wouldn't complain as much. I don't think he fully recovered, especially since he's also noticeably slower now.

Florida was 5th in hits per game in the playoffs last season. The only team in the top 10 (in the playoffs) in hits per 60 to make it out of the 2nd round.

I'm not changing the argument. My argument is chasing hits is a completely pointless endeavor with regards to winning hockey. Hits don't decide playoff games. Goals do.

You want to see more hits. That's fine. But don't paint it as some sort of "we have to be aggressively tougher to win" stance, because that's horseshit. The only thing that matters with regards to hitting is not letting it affect your play if you get hit.

 

[Frk It]

Florida was 5th in hits per game in the playoffs last season. The only team in the top 10 (in the playoffs) in hits per 60 to make it out of the 2nd round.

I'm not changing the argument. My argument is chasing hits is a completely pointless endeavor with regards to winning hockey. Hits don't decide playoff games. Goals do.

You want to see more hits. That's fine. But don't paint it as some sort of "we have to be aggressively tougher to win" stance, because that's horseshit. The only thing that matters with regards to hitting is not letting it affect your play if you get hit.

We’ve moved pretty far from the original argument at this point, but the original argument was silly.

There have been plenty of guys who didn’t put up a lot of hits but were anything but soft.

Like Zetterberg.

 

[Gniwder]

We’ve moved pretty far from the original argument at this point, but the original argument was silly.

There have been plenty of guys who didn’t put up a lot of hits but were anything but soft.

Like Zetterberg.

He wasn't considered tough either. You know the world isn't black or white.

Not to mention Z was elite in his ability to leverage and protect the puck. Please don't mention elite players like Zetterberg when we're talking about a chump like Copp. Z was better in his rookie season than Copp ever was.

 

[Ulysses31]

12 forwards, 7 D, 3 goailes i hear as of now, thats a holl conversation