Speculation: Lindholm seeking 8 years, north of 6M per

[Group Chat Legend*]

He's not worth 6+ mil with what he's shown. Pay for actual production, not potential imo.

Dont know who you've been watching but Lindholm has shown he is worth 6m and possibly more considering UFA years.

 

[Sojourn]

Do you not think Lindholm is worth 6M over 8 years? Because earlier you were arguing that the was more valuable than Gaudreau, who is objectively worth like 7.5+ on the same deal.

Part of Lindholm's value is as a potential #1 defenseman, which is a rich find in the NHL today.

Trade value and contract value are very different things.

 

[Ducksgo*]

I 100% thought I would see Anaheim players saying "open the cheque book" when talking about Lindholm.

Any time he was brought up in the trade forum, he was called:
A beast!
A true #1D!
Borderline Elite!

Now that it's time to pay him, $6.5+ is crazy talk!!!!

I think the dude is a beast and, if we traded for him, would not blink an eye if he was close to (or above) the 7 mark.

Not every duck fan thinks like that regarding the contract. This duck fan thinks that's a extremely fair asking price with how #1 defenseman are going these days.

 

[Sojourn]

Not every duck fan thinks like that regarding the contract. This duck fan thinks that's a extremely fair asking price with how #1 defenseman are going these days.

And if we were signing a #1, I'd be okay with paying that. Lindholm isn't a #1 defenseman at this point.

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

And if we were signing a #1, I'd be okay with paying that. Lindholm isn't a #1 defenseman at this point.

If you think contracts are based strictly on current standing, you'd be very wrong.

Folks around here try to make contract values seem black and white when they aren't even close to that; perhaps that is why players are recommended to have agents?

 

[Arthuros]

If the Ducks were comfortable with Lindholm being the firm #1, Fowler would have been long gone. Let that sink in.

Lindholm tired out in his first two seasons, and started slow in his most recent one. When he's on his game, he's worthy of being called 1D, but he doesn't have the stamina/consistency to keep it up the entire season + playoffs. That's why I don't want to pay him 7M+ like Ekblad.

Lindholm is still benefitting from Fowler taking at least some of the defensive burden. The Ducks defensive system since Niedermayer and Pronger left has been very reliant on several non-elite but very good defencemen.

Even if we are paying for "potential", he would need to reach a level we haven't seen from him yet. He essentially needs to be good enough to carry the entire back end, something no Ducks player has done in the past few years.

 

[Sojourn]

If you think contracts are based strictly on current standing, you'd be very wrong.

Folks around here try to make contract values seem black and white when they aren't even close to that; perhaps that is why players are recommended to have agents?

I didn't say that, but they are certainly heavily influenced by current standing. A player can have all the potential in the world, but they still get paid, primarily, for how they actually play. More than that, they are paid for how they have been playing. As in, over a period of time. Lindholm has shown flashes of some pretty awesome stuff, but over the course of a season, and multiple seasons, there are still a lot of ups and downs. The bad games count just as much as the good ones. So do the ones where he was just good vs. great.

I'm not comfortable paying Lindholm 6+ because his current level of play doesn't justify it, and I haven't seen enough consistency from him to think he's just one small step from deserving it.

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

I didn't say that, but they are certainly heavily influenced by current standing. A player can have all the potential in the world, but they still get paid, primarily, for how they actually play.

I'm not comfortable paying Lindholm 6+ because his current level of play doesn't justify it, and I haven't seen enough consistency from him to think he's just one small step from deserving it.

So then what do you think hes worth? Then from there, you need to take into account that he likey improves since he is so young (ypu never assume a player regresses in contract talks unless it involves actual payout per year, not cap hit).

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

If the Ducks were comfortable with Lindholm being the firm #1, Fowler would have been long gone. Let that sink in.

Lindholm tired out in his first two seasons, and started slow in his most recent one. When he's on his game, he's worthy of being called 1D, but he doesn't have the stamina/consistency to keep it up the entire season + playoffs. That's why we don't want to pay him 7M like Ekblad.

Lindholm is still benefitting from Fowler taking at least some of the defensive burden.

Stamina can be improved unless it is an attitude problem.

Silly reason to not pay a kid who looks to be a stud. Seems almost cheap in thought.

 

[Ducksgo*]

If you think contracts are based strictly on current standing, you'd be very wrong.

Folks around here try to make contract values seem black and white when they aren't even close to that; perhaps that is why players are recommended to have agents?

Agreed. I have no issues giving him this contract. As stated by other fans in this forum, other teams would sign him 7 million for 8 with the drop of a pen. Why the f isn't this deal done already??? Cmon man

 

[BB88]

And if we were signing a #1, I'd be okay with paying that. Lindholm isn't a #1 defenseman at this point.

I don't think you can sign a #1D these days at 6.5M.

 

[Sojourn]

So then what do you think hes worth? Then from there, you need to take into account that he likey improves since he is so young (ypu never assume a player regresses in contract talks unless it involves actual payout per year, not cap hit).

You don't need to assume they regress. What if you just assume that their development might slow down, and this could end up being the player they are? Are you comfortable paying that amount for 8 years, if this is all he is?

The answer is: No.

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

You don't need to assume they regress. What if you just assume that their development might slow down, and this could end up being the player they are? Are you comfortable paying that amount for 8 years, if this is all he is?

The answer is: No.

Welcome to the world of contractual business.

I assure you with his young age his contract will reflect an upward trend, or Anaheim wont be signing him. It is as simple as that.

And you still neer answered what you think he is worth. And on top of that, are you okay saving the difference in what you think hes worth to 6m and losing him? Again, seems like a very cheap mindset. Something that shouldnt be in profrssional sports but sadly internal budgets exist.

 

[Seanaconda]

Lindholm is still benefitting from Fowler taking at least some of the defensive burden. The Ducks defensive system since Niedermayer and Pronger left has been very reliant on several non-elite but very good defencemen.

Well those were two hall of fame dmen not just elite. You're gonna have to pay for less.

 

[Sojourn]

Welcome to the world of contractual business.

I assure you with his young age his contract will reflect an upward trend, or Anaheim wont be signing him. It is as simple as that.

And you still neer answered what you think he is worth. And on top of that, are you okay saving the difference in what you think hes worth to 6m and losing him? Again, seems like a very cheap mindset. Something that shouldnt be in profrssional sports but sadly internal budgets exist.

You aren't telling me any new information. The difference is that I'm simply saying the upward trend is a more shallow slope at this point. You think it should be steeper. He hasn't put up the kind of offensive numbers, or the consistency for that. The higher above 6 he wants to go, the less he's proven it. 6 over 8 years is as high as I'd go, and I'd consider that dangerous.

He'd be between 5-6 for me. If the contract is shorter, that number drops. And part of business is being dispassionate and doing what is right for your organization. If that means battling a bit over $500,000, I hope Murray does do that. I wouldn't be in the habit of giving a player exactly what he wants, because it makes my job easier in the short-term.

 

[Vipers31]

Welcome to the world of contractual business.

I assure you with his young age his contract will reflect an upward trend, or Anaheim wont be signing him. It is as simple as that.

And you still neer answered what you think he is worth. And on top of that, are you okay saving the difference in what you think hes worth to 6m and losing him? Again, seems like a very cheap mindset. Something that shouldnt be in profrssional sports but sadly internal budgets exist.

Welcome to the world of contractual business, indeed, where it isn't all about what someone is worth, but what someone can get from his given leverage. Lindholm's agent or any poster here can point to a bunch of benchmarks from the RFA market to narrow in on what his market value is - but as an RFA, he isn't part of an open market. The very point for the Ducks is that there is no substantial risk of losing him over any difference. The only way he could force his price up is signing an offer sheet, which there are no signs of, would probably have to be the latest offer sheet ever, and even then the Ducks could decide to match. Other than the limited risk of an offer sheet, there's nothing there.

 

[Ducks in a row]

That Ekblad contract really changed things and not for the better.

Ekblad is a 1st overall pick who started playing in the NHL straight out of the draft and has been doing well he shouldn't be used as a basis.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Part of Lindholm's value is as a potential #1 defenseman, which is a rich find in the NHL today.

Trade value and contract value are very different things.

You wouldn't pay 6M for a top pairing defensmen with #1 potential?

When players are roughly the same age, trade value and contract value should be pretty close.

 

[crowi]

Seems like an entitled ----- to me.

 

[Stuzchuk]

would ANA be ok with this?

SALARY - BONUS
4.000 - 3.000
4.000 - 3.000
5.000 - 3.000
6.000 - 4.000
7.000 - 4.000
8.000 - 4.000
9.000 - 6.000
9.000 - 6.000
-------------------------
52.000

 

[David Bondra]

If this is true and the Ducks are not giving him that money, then Murray should be fired. He's worth that money now and worth way more in the future. I seriously have no idea why Murray should be allowed to stay as Anaheim's GM if he is not jumping on that as they lock up their cornerstone d-man for eight seasons at beyond a reasonable price range. Lindholm's wanting very little compared to what he will be worth in the future so why the Ducks didn't jump on this is shocking.

 

[serp]

Ekblad is a 1st overall pick who started playing in the NHL straight out of the draft and has been doing well he shouldn't be used as a basis.

Tell that to that agents and the players .

Ekblad hasn't actually earned the kind of payday yet that Panthers gave him already and now every good young RFA wants that too even if they might deserve it even less.

 

[CaptainSexyPants]

I'd be a helluva lot more comfortable giving Lindholm 6.5 long term than I would Trouba 5.5

 

[chatty4756]

Didnt realize how bad of shape ducks really are cap wise. So their internal cap is 65 million, but they are already over that. They have 5.5 million in cap space left and both rfa's want roughly $10 million a year combined. Even if the ducks traded fowler, its still not enough to give lindholm what he wants and have cap space for just in case. How did murray let it get this far

 

[dracom]

Didnt realize how bad of shape ducks really are cap wise. So their internal cap is 65 million, but they are already over that. They have 5.5 million in cap space left and both rfa's want roughly $10 million a year combined. Even if the ducks traded fowler, its still not enough to give lindholm what he wants and have cap space for just in case. How did murray let it get this far

Where are you getting that 5.5 million in cap space left?