LeBrun: Lightning talking to Tyler Johnson about waiving his NTC

DistantThunderRep

Registered User
Mar 8, 2018
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this is completely untrue. And has been refuted by. Multiple agents. GMs and players in multiple news articles. Interviews and other media.

the RCA is an rrsp for rich people. That’s all it is.
You mean confirmed by Allan Walsh, you know A TOP NHL AGENT. Dear god, stop drinking the koolaid. The RCA is so overblown that the NBA banned Toronto from using it. Also if the player is American, then not only can they benefit from the RCA, they also benefit from the tax treaty between Canada and the US. But again...kool-aid.



Its like, just maybe, that taxes aren't as cut and dry as the general ass hat on TSN or Sportsnet in Toronto tries to make it.
 

DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
47,189
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NB
You mean confirmed by Allan Walsh, you know A TOP NHL AGENT. Dear god, stop drinking the koolaid. The RCA is so overblown that the NBA banned Toronto from using it. Also if the player is American, then not only can they benefit from the RCA, they also benefit from the tax treaty between Canada and the US. But again...kool-aid.



Its like, just maybe, that taxes aren't as cut and dry as the general ass hat on TSN or Sportsnet in Toronto tries to make it.


Can't just be bad contracts and bad drafting. Gotta be the taxes.
 

Legion34

Registered User
Jan 24, 2006
18,288
8,343
You mean confirmed by Allan Walsh, you know A TOP NHL AGENT. Dear god, stop drinking the koolaid. The RCA is so overblown that the NBA banned Toronto from using it. Also if the player is American, then not only can they benefit from the RCA, they also benefit from the tax treaty between Canada and the US. But again...kool-aid.



Its like, just maybe, that taxes aren't as cut and dry as the general ass hat on TSN or Sportsnet in Toronto tries to make it.


Yep. You do realize that


1.) there are multiple agents GMs and actual accountants who have said the exact opposite. About 20 different articles explaining. It have been posted. Google is your friend


2.) even IF you are correct. You aren’t but let’s just suspend reality for a minute.

ultimately it wouldn’t matter. IF one agent knows the truth and has a super secret tax expert. The NHL and league as a whole completely disagrees.

If both parties are under this mistaken assumption. It is reality. If a player would accept 8.5 million in Dallas because he has been led to believe that its worth more than 10 in montreal.

then he Will still sign for 8.5.


I would post the 20 articles that I have done before. You have ignored them. So there is no point

edit. Allan Walsh has 7 nhl clients. 4 are in tax free markets.

He has 1 client (huberdeau) in a Canadian market.

sekera left Canada to sign a cheap deal in Dallas.


Soooo super agent Walsh is costing his players money by advising them to go to tax free markets.and they are giving up money to play in the states?


Suuurrre
 
Last edited:

DistantThunderRep

Registered User
Mar 8, 2018
19,901
16,760
Yep. You do realize that


1.) there are multiple agents GMs and actual accountants who have said the exact opposite. About 20 different articles explaining. It have been posted. Google is your friend


2.) even IF you are correct. You aren’t but let’s just suspend reality for a minute.

ultimately it wouldn’t matter. IF one agent knows the truth and has a super secret tax expert. The NHL and league as a whole completely disagrees.

If both parties are under this mistaken assumption. It is reality. If a player would accept 8.5 million in Dallas because he has been led to believe that its worth more than 10 in montreal.

then he Will still sign for 8.5.


I would post the 20 articles that I have done before. You have ignored them. So there is no point

edit. Allan Walsh has 7 nhl clients. 4 are in tax free markets.

He has 1 client (huberdeau) in a Canadian market.

sekera left Canada to sign a cheap deal in Dallas.


Soooo super agent Walsh is costing his players money by advising them to go to tax free markets.and they are giving up money to play in the states?


Suuurrre
Allan Walsh has been an agent in the NHL for 20+ years. But sure, what ever helps you sleep at night. Its not like a whole league banned a team from using RCA's because of the massive advantage it posed. But if it helps you sleep at night, by all means go ahead. Its not like an Agent would have to be able to know how to maximize their clients income in locations. Its not like its their job. May you enjoy your kool-aid, and believe that your taxes are done in very simply and no one nowhere manipulates taxes to increase their benefits to maximum.

Retirement Compensation (RCA) - GBL


Key benefits of an RCA

  • Flexible
  • Creditor-proof
  • Exempt from payroll taxes
  • Ability to reduce amount of taxes paid by lowering participant’s tax rate
  • Taxation only occurs at the time of withdrawal
  • Taxation depends on place of residency at time of withdrawal
But yeah, that doesn't help an NHL player at all.
 

Legion34

Registered User
Jan 24, 2006
18,288
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Allan Walsh has been an agent in the NHL for 20+ years. But sure, what ever helps you sleep at night. Its not like a whole league banned a team from using RCA's because of the massive advantage it posed. But if it helps you sleep at night, by all means go ahead. Its not like an Agent would have to be able to know how to maximize their clients income in locations. Its not like its their job. May you enjoy your kool-aid, and believe that your taxes are done in very simply and no one nowhere manipulates taxes to increase their benefits to maximum.

Retirement Compensation (RCA) - GBL


Key benefits of an RCA

  • Flexible
  • Creditor-proof
  • Exempt from payroll taxes
  • Ability to reduce amount of taxes paid by lowering participant’s tax rate
  • Taxation only occurs at the time of withdrawal
  • Taxation depends on place of residency at time of withdrawal
But yeah, that doesn't help an NHL player at all.


Again. Google tax adavantage NHL. Post the first 10 relevant articles You won’t. There are tons of articles proving the opposite.

post them here. You won’t though right?

1.) rca is literally an rrsp. It completely stops front loading. And determines where you retire and live.

You also forgot that agent fees and mortgage are tax deductible in the states. Not Canada. But sure. Let’s go with it.

just to be clear. You actually believe that stamkos
Would actually be making MORE money in Toronto on the exact same contract?

You think that 20 year vet Allan Walsh (the same guy who drew his player getting impaled) is actually costing his players money by advising them to sign in tax free markets?
 

DistantThunderRep

Registered User
Mar 8, 2018
19,901
16,760
Again. Google tax adavantage NHL. Post the first 10 relevant articles You won’t. There are tons of articles proving the opposite.

post them here. You won’t though right?

1.) rca is literally an rrsp. It completely stops front loading. And determines where you retire and live.

You also forgot that agent fees and mortgage are tax deductible in the states. Not Canada. But sure. Let’s go with it.

just to be clear. You actually believe that stamkos
Would actually be making MORE money in Toronto on the exact same contract?

You think that 20 year vet Allan Walsh (the same guy who drew his player getting impaled) is actually costing his players money by advising them to sign in tax free markets?
Are you just being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse? I am saying there is an distinct advantage if you play in Canada if you choose to use it? Am I wrong? I guarantee almost every American player in the NHL who plays for a Canadian team uses an RCA. You keep saying its basically an RRSP, but refuse the key point. It is there purposefully to lower your tax bracket, and when you withdraw, it is taxed in the place of your residence. IF YOU ARE A RESIDENT OF LET'S SAY FLORIDA...EVEN THOUGH YOU PLAYED IN CANADA, INCOME PLUS PROFIT GENERATED IS TAXED AT THE AMERICAN RATE.

The RCA not only gives the player are way to get away with the same tax rate as a no income tax state, it also generates money that isn't accounted towards the cap. Please...explain why that isn't an advantage? I have consistently said, if you are an American player, playing in Canada, you could easily be better off than everyone else. Matthews is going to be making mad bank basically paying nothing on 50% of his contract until he bails and moves back to Arizona. It seems like you don't understand how the RCA works....like at all...and you're so drunk on the kool-aid, that you don't understand how it works.
 

Legion34

Registered User
Jan 24, 2006
18,288
8,343
Are you just being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse? I am saying there is an distinct advantage if you play in Canada if you choose to use it? Am I wrong? I guarantee almost every American player in the NHL who plays for a Canadian team uses an RCA. You keep saying its basically an RRSP, but refuse the key point. It is there purposefully to lower your tax bracket, and when you withdraw, it is taxed in the place of your residence. IF YOU ARE A RESIDENT OF LET'S SAY FLORIDA...EVEN THOUGH YOU PLAYED IN CANADA, INCOME PLUS PROFIT GENERATED IS TAXED AT THE AMERICAN RATE.

The RCA not only gives the player are way to get away with the same tax rate as a no income tax state, it also generates money that isn't accounted towards the cap. Please...explain why that isn't an advantage? I have consistently said, if you are an American player, playing in Canada, you could easily be better off than everyone else. Matthews is going to be making mad bank basically paying nothing on 50% of his contract until he bails and moves back to Arizona. It seems like you don't understand how the RCA works....like at all...and you're so drunk on the kool-aid, that you don't understand how it works.

Ok.

option a:

Any nationality. Play In Tampa/Dallas/nash etc.

make 10 million. Take home 8.

-that 8 million is in your pocket. You can invest it. Buy properties. Make money. Travel the world.
Start a podcast. Be a scout. Own a restaurant.

Money now is better than money later.

option b:

make 10 million. Take home 6. To try to make the money even (which is not likely but ok....)

- lock up 2 million dollars that you cant invest. Cant buy properties etc. This TEMPORARILY lowers your taxes.
-lock that money up until you retire. Now you can’t invest. You lost all that potential earning for decades.

Now when you “retire”. When you are what? 35? Now you are going to dip into your savings?

now you have to move to Florida to get taxed lower. When your kids are in school?

now you have an investment ? Or a restaurant? Or a podcast/endorsements?

if you make like 200 k a year in Canada. Then guess what. You get taxed like 50% again on any withdrawals you make.

you can’t choose where you want to live. If you get divorced and need to be near a kid. Or you can’t have an investment or own properties etc.

it’s not what you think it is. If you have
A job and contribute to an rrsp. That works because people who are 65-75 are planning on having no income. They don’t have the money to save or invest.

do you think millionaires use rrsp? Marner is maxing out his rrsp every year now?

the last point literally is “tax rate depends on where you retire to”. You are picking your life circumstances 20 years in advance for no reason.

that’s literally the point. Where you make your money dramatically changes how much you are taxed.

whether it is income or the RCA.
 

DistantThunderRep

Registered User
Mar 8, 2018
19,901
16,760
Ok.

option a:

Any nationality. Play In Tampa/Dallas/nash etc.

make 10 million. Take home 8.

-that 8 million is in your pocket. You can invest it. Buy properties. Make money. Travel the world.
Start a podcast. Be a scout. Own a restaurant.

Money now is better than money later.

option b:

make 10 million. Take home 6. To try to make the money even (which is not likely but ok....)

- lock up 2 million dollars that you cant invest. Cant buy properties etc. This TEMPORARILY lowers your taxes.
-lock that money up until you retire. Now you can’t invest. You lost all that potential earning for decades.

Now when you “retire”. When you are what? 35? Now you are going to dip into your savings?

now you have to move to Florida to get taxed lower. When your kids are in school?

now you have an investment ? Or a restaurant? Or a podcast/endorsements?

if you make like 200 k a year in Canada. Then guess what. You get taxed like 50% again on any withdrawals you make.

you can’t choose where you want to live. If you get divorced and need to be near a kid. Or you can’t have an investment or own properties etc.

it’s not what you think it is. If you have
A job and contribute to an rrsp. That works because people who are 65-75 are planning on having no income. They don’t have the money to save or invest.

do you think millionaires use rrsp? Marner is maxing out his rrsp every year now?

the last point literally is “tax rate depends on where you retire to”. You are picking your life circumstances 20 years in advance for no reason.

that’s literally the point. Where you make your money dramatically changes how much you are taxed.

whether it is income or the RCA.
What is wrong you, I don't understand how much clearer I can make it. I've simply stated it and you just go off on a novel where most of it wrong.

This is how it works, because f***ing hell you refuse to look into yourself. This is honestly good information going forward so pay attention.

Player makes 10M a year. A player can dump up 50% of their salary tax free into the RCA. Which continues to grow at a small percentage every year. Imagine it's 0.1% on 5 Million, every year until the player retires. That 5M every year gets zero tax and gets capital gains until the player retires. Player never becomes a Canadian resident, owns property in florida, or arizona, or Washington state, and only rents in Canada. Because of travel in general, the american player doesn't become a Canadian resident because they qualify for living in Canada for over half a calendar year. Their bonuses is are taxed in where their home state is, and salary is subject to jock tax and taxes in the city they play.

An american player with zero f***ing effort can lower their effect tax rate by 10-13% just by not buying a property in Canada. They can further have gains because the RCA generates interest on however much money that's in there. They further have benefits from the American-Canadian tax treaty.

There is zero complication here. If you're Canadian and playing on a Canadian team, you put your money in an RCA and hope your interest gains more than your tax. But I'm not talking about a Canadian player. I specifically am speaking about an American player, in a thread about an American player. So how is this hard for you to understand?
 
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Legion34

Registered User
Jan 24, 2006
18,288
8,343
What is wrong you, I don't understand how much clearer I can make it. I've simply stated it and you just go off on a novel where most of it wrong.

This is how it works, because f***ing hell you refuse to look into yourself. This is honestly good information going forward so pay attention.

Player makes 10M a year. A player can dump up 50% of their salary tax free into the RCA. Which continues to grow at a small percentage every year. Imagine it's 0.1% on 5 Million, every year until the player retires. That 5M every year gets zero tax and gets capital gains until the player retires. Player never becomes a Canadian resident, owns property in florida, or arizona, or Washington state, and only rents in Canada. Because of travel in general, the american player doesn't become a Canadian resident because they qualify for living in Canada for over half a calendar year. Their bonuses is are taxed in where their home state is, and salary is subject to jock tax and taxes in the city they play.

An american player with zero f***ing effort can lower their effect tax rate by 10-13% just by not buying a property in Canada. They can further have gains because the RCA generates interest on however much money that's in there. They further have benefits from the American-Canadian tax treaty.

There is zero complication here. If you're Canadian and playing on a Canadian team, you put your money in an RCA and hope your interest gains more than your tax. But I'm not talking about a Canadian player. I specifically am speaking about an American player, in a thread about an American player. So how is this hard for you to understand?


Sure. Fair in the American player. For some reason I thought this was in the “stamkos” thread. I was looking in both.

You quoted Allan Walsh. Who was not speaking specifically about American players. His statement was incorrect. He never once says I can do this for an American player. I’m pretty sure he has 0 American clients. So it’s an odd quote to use about an American player

That being said. It’s still not Nearly as clear as
You think it is. This was discussed at length as Matthews. An American. Is making big money in Canada.


1.) you can’t just “claim residency”. You get taxed
On your income “where your economic ties are the greatest”. That covers

-where you spend most of your time
-if you own a property
-if you own a car
-if you have children. If they go to private school/funding etc.

every year for that year you have to claim residency. If you play on a Canadian team with training camps and Canadian games..... that counts. If you make the playoffs
That counts.

to make “residency work” you can’t own a house, have to rent a different condo every year. Cant have kids.

Most accountants say residency works the first year. (Like Tavares) but an accountant who had like 20 nhl players specifically said that his clients tend not to be able to do maintain residency over their careers.

In theory. Things work. But meet a Canadian girl or have a kid who lives in Canada or want to
Buy a house it doesn’t work.

Basically you still have to jump through a whole ton of hoops to try to even the playing field
And their are no guarantees.

you also have to commit to retirement in a certain area.

finally. There is No such thing as tax free here.

you get a temporary tax rebate. Then when you go to withdraw your money
You get taxed “hopefully” at a lower rate but there are no guarantees.

it’s much more complicated than you think it is. The idea that the government isn’t chasing their money is insane.

the idea that a player making millions of taxable income in Canada while living in Canada abs working in Canada can just not pay it because they don’t buy a house is silly.

The NBA is different. Because there
Is 1 team. They literally
Play 50/50 and spend more
Time in the states.

Players on Canadian teams spend more time and play more Games in Canada. Their economic ties are greater to Canada. They play 75% of their games In Canada
 
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itwasaforwardpass

I'll be the hyena
Mar 4, 2017
5,331
5,146
I wonder if he will waive for any of the center needing teams, though. Minnesota, Buffalo, Winnipeg. Not the most attractive destinations.
 

Guttersniped

I like goalies who stop the puck
Sponsor
Dec 20, 2018
21,941
47,584
Holy crap, isn’t there any way this tax debate can migrate to the business of hockey section? It just does not ever stop. If I wanted to hear this shit I would call my accountant. I know, I know, I don’t have to read it but I just like to point out that fans outside of certain teams in the Atlantic division aren’t as weirdly fixated by income taxes disparities and don’t blame them for all their teams woes...
 

These Are The Days

Oh no! We suck again!!
May 17, 2014
34,502
20,325
Tampa Bay
Wow this thread got derailed


Gonna probably lose the 2 guys probably most responsible for our previous playoff success in Killorn and Johnson by this Friday



HF

tenor.gif
 

Skinnyjimmy08

WorldTraveler
Mar 30, 2012
22,536
12,027
Peoples obsession with the tax situation for some teams on HF is so annoying... derails so many threads
 

seventyz78

Registered User
Sep 25, 2013
69
13
Yep. You do realize that

As a player wouldn’t it make sense to sign for 10 million in a tax friendly state? Instead of 8.5 million, That way the player takes advantage of the tax break and makes more money?

Why take less money because of taxes? The player is then not taking advantages of the tax break.
1.) there are multiple agents GMs and actual accountants who have said the exact opposite. About 20 different articles explaining. It have been posted. Google is your friend


2.) even IF you are correct. You aren’t but let’s just suspend reality for a minute.

ultimately it wouldn’t matter. IF one agent knows the truth and has a super secret tax expert. The NHL and league as a whole completely disagrees.

If both parties are under this mistaken assumption. It is reality. If a player would accept 8.5 million in Dallas because he has been led to believe that its worth more than 10 in montreal.

then he Will still sign for 8.5.


I would post the 20 articles that I have done before. You have ignored them. So there is no point

edit. Allan Walsh has 7 nhl clients. 4 are in tax free markets.

He has 1 client (huberdeau) in a Canadian market.

sekera left Canada to sign a cheap deal in Dallas.


Soooo super agent Walsh is costing his players money by advising them to go to tax free markets.and they are giving up money to play in the states?


Suuurrre
 

seventyz78

Registered User
Sep 25, 2013
69
13
[/

As a player wouldn’t it make sense to sign for 10 million in a tax friendly state? Instead of 8.5 million, That way the player takes advantage of the tax break and makes more money?
Why take less money because of taxes? The player is then not taking advantages of the tax break.
1.) there are multiple agents GMs and actual accountants who have said the exact opposite. About 20 different articles explaining. It have been posted. Google is your friend
 

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