Lidstrom tried to convince Sundin to come to Detroit during the 07/08 season. Sundin turned him down saying: "I only want to win in Toronto"

[sr edler]

Sundin in a Red Wings jersey would have looked weird.

 

[Hot Water Bottle]

Sundin - very good player of course, but there was always something "off" about his demeanor... he had a gloomy, almost depressed vibe on the ice, and it was hard to imagine him ever pulling off Conn Smythe-worthy heroics to drag his team to the finals.

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

I remember rumors in the summer of 08 all the way up until his signing in Vancouver of him also wanting to go to the Rangers. His only request was that he wanted a top winger to play with at first the idea was to keep Jagr but he left basically to show Cherepanov the roots in Russia rip. The next idea was to sign Hossa then Sundin, also which also didn't work. The final idea was floated in November/December the plan was to trade Gomez for Kovalchuk and then immediately sign Sundin , also 0. That's always why that 08 09 team looked weak.

Alas in Detroit I would assume he would slot into Fillpulas spot with Franzen and Samuelson as his wings. Probably center pp 2 as well. Definitely would have won his cup like Bourque did. I just wonder who Detroit would have given up for him.

 

[Gorskyontario]

If there was a few people mad at him, they are lower than scum, Mats deserved a cup, the team failed hard at getting him the help he needed. Tbh I wish he kept going until he got one, I was cheering him and the Canucks on, he gave everything to Toronto and then some.

To put it in perspective how good he was, in his first 53 playoff games he had 25 goals with guys like Berezin, Hoglund, Roberts. Meanwhile Matthews has all the talent in the world and in his first 55 playoff games he has 23 goals.

Mats is a God in Toronto (as one of our current players can attest to).

Steve Thomas and Gary Roberts were good wingers.


Leafs fans and their revisionism lol.

 

[norrisnick]

Sundin - very good player of course, but there was always something "off" about his demeanor... he had a gloomy, almost depressed vibe on the ice, and it was hard to imagine him ever pulling off Conn Smythe-worthy heroics to drag his team to the finals.

That's what playing in Toronto does to you. Where is that Phaneuf headshot timeline when you need it?

 

[The Panther]

Vancouver fans always go on about Sundin in Van like he was the Second Coming or something, but... er, was he? If you project his stats to a full season (he played exactly 50% of a season there), it's 56 points and -10. So, this doesn't really suggest anything special. I mean, 56 points is solid for age 37 of course, but...? He basically matched Messier's stats in Van at the same age. Actually, a bit worse considering age and scoring environments.

I love Sundin, though. In Toronto, he was like the most consistent scoring forward, ever. And he really had to stir that drink, in a fishbowl, for many years. A tough job, and he did it well.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

considering how much he would have been paid and the salary cap of that year, wouldn't the team with him from the beginning versus the small cap hit of the half season at a much lower pay (half the cap hit I suppose) need to be different ?

yeah that’s a good point. maybe if sundin signs that $20m contract, there’s no demitra signing.

although i’m not sure of the timeline. demitra signed a week and a half into free agency. i don’t think the initial sundin offer became public until he signed midseason. so is there a chance they had a plan to fit in both? that was the same summer as the david backes offer sheet so maybe they just had a buttload of cap room?

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Vancouver fans always go on about Sundin in Van like he was the Second Coming or something, but... er, was he? If you project his stats to a full season (he played exactly 50% of a season there), it's 56 points and -10. So, this doesn't really suggest anything special

When did they ever quote stats when talking about his impact in Vancouver? My sense was always that they allude to his leadership, a culture change, him having a positive impact towards unlocking the potential of Kesler and the Sedins and whatnot. It’s one of those cases where I would tend to trust the fans who were there, but there are also quotes from the players in question expressing as much.

I also think he had a slow start in terms of his on-ice performance? Not having played all fall might do that. In the Blackhawks series, he led the team with 7 points in 6 games.

 

[sr edler]

Sundin in Vancouver was kind of the antithesis of Messier in Vancouver.

Both came in at their twilight years at diminished capacity, but while one acted like a "me me me" douchebag eating up shit-tons of minutes, effectively passive aggressively stealing the captaincy from a beloved homegrown player, while lazily floating around scoring empty fluff points, the other one had a more humble approach where he mentored the younger up-and-coming star players (Sedins, Kesler) on the team, while still turning it on in the playoffs (PPG).

Sundin did the same thing in Torino in 2006, where Zetterberg was really the key forward. Messier on the other hand was scratched from the 1998 Olympic team because Bobby Clarke was afraid his status (read: ego) would clash too much with Lindros.

 

[Snuggs]

I'll be honest, Red Wings would of won more cups. Believe they did at least win 1 anyways, Sundin missed out, but he also deserved to lose. He made his bed.

The one cup could have put him in a different 'spot' in people's brains and made a better longer lasting legacy in hockey.

 

[MadLuke]

Messier and Sundin were a bit different place going in a bit different situation too.

Messier just scored 183 points, +41 in the 145 games before joining the Canucks, he had a second place Hart finish in 1996 and people were surprised for him not to be named on team Canada, planing to play a lot of hockey.

He had made the playoff the 2 previous year, won 3 series, with a possible cup in their mind.

He join a team that missed the playoff the year before, Sundin arrive middle of the year of a team 5th in the west with Bieksa-Mitchell-Edler-Ohlund-Salo-Luongo, never made the playoff since 2004 and semi-retired doing part-time work at Home Hardware, easier to be zen.

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

I'll be honest, Red Wings would of won more cups. Believe they did at least win 1 anyways, Sundin missed out, but he also deserved to lose. He made his bed.

The one cup could have put him in a different 'spot' in people's brains and made a better longer lasting legacy in hockey.

They won the season Sundin would've joined.

 

[Gorskyontario]

Sundin should have known one thing,


Toronto plays for respect in the handshake line, not the cup.

 

[Crosby2010]

One thing we forget in 2008 is just how badly the team was managed under John Ferguson Jr. My nostrils still flare up when his name is brought up because he inherited a team in 2003 that was a Cup contender and then ran them to the ground. There were 5 players on the Leafs with a no-trade clause. Sundin, Tucker, McCabe, Kubina and Kaberle. Outside of Sundin, no one deserved a no-trade clause. This is like Marner having a no-trade clause - which he does - but giving one to a 3rd liner for the heck of it. It made no sense. And why Sundin got all of that flack is beyond me. He didn't deserve to be forced out of town like that, or guilted into doing it. How about the other 4 guys who didn't deserve the no-trade? Go after them, not Sundin.

I do remember the situation they were in back in 2008 and they went on a bit of a tear late in the season when the games didn't matter anymore and they were out of a playoff spot. It was really annoying, because all it did was push us further and further down from a high draft spot. We ended up choosing 5th, and it was Luke Schenn. He's fine and all, but ahead him was Stamkos, Doughty, and then Pietrangelo 4th. All won the Cup at least once, two were captains (Doughty may as well have been) and probably all three end up in the HHOF although Pietrangelo will be the "maybe" one I guess. With a trade or two maybe we move up higher, maybe we pick one of the other guys and they lead the Leafs to the Cup. None of this is Sundin's fault of course, but with that tear they went on at the end of the year I can remember hating every time he or any of the Leafs scored big game winners.

That being said, it was a rare time the fanbase didn't like Sundin. There was always the whole "We'll never win with him as captain" talk. But even those guys still knew Sundin was good and his supporting cast was traditionally bad. I don't blame him for staying where he was comfortable, however, he'd have a Cup if he was in Detroit. And since Ray Bourque is still loved in Boston despite winning a Cup in Colorado I think Sundin would still be a Leaf even with a Wings Cup. I'd have been happy for him to be honest.

 

[The Panther]

Sundin in Vancouver was kind of the antithesis of Messier in Vancouver.

Both came in at their twilight years at diminished capacity, but while one acted like a "me me me" douchebag eating up shit-tons of minutes,

Ah yes, the eternal "ice time" issue with Messier. What I'd like to know, though, is exactly which Canucks' center deserved ice-time more than Messier in 1997-98 and 1998-99? Dave Scatchard?

effectively passive aggressively stealing the captaincy from a beloved homegrown player, while lazily floating around scoring empty fluff points, the other one had a more humble approach where he mentored the younger up-and-coming star players (Sedins, Kesler) on the team, while still turning it on in the playoffs (PPG).

Well, Sundin joined a Canucks' team that was already winning games and in a playoff position when he joined. Messier joined an already non-playoff team that was just reaching the bottom of the barrel when he arrived.

By the way, the Canucks were 21-15-5 when Sundin was acquired, so they were already fine and on the rise... and then went 1-5-3 in his first nine games. (They did get hot after that, however, to lock down a playoff spot.) The team got better the year after Sundin left, too. In short, they were already competitive before he got there, and were fine after he left. It was hardly a comparable situation to the trainwreck, divided, incompetently-managed team Messier walked in on.

Sundin did the same thing in Torino in 2006, where Zetterberg was really the key forward. Messier on the other hand was scratched from the 1998 Olympic team because Bobby Clarke was afraid his status (read: ego) would clash too much with Lindros.

Yeah, that worked out really well for the '98 Canadian team...