Player Discussion Lias Andersson

[UnSandvich]

Nobody affiliated with the Rangers said Lias was the most NHL ready pick at 7. Pierre McGuire said that.

Now now AK, let's not let facts get in the way of JHS' narrative

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Now now AK, let's not let facts get in the way of JHS' narrative

Oh. I'm sorry. You're right. My bad.

Gordie Clark bad! Rangers suck at scouting! #McIlrathalloveragain

 

[Edge]

You know, for all the gnashing of teeth a portion of this board has done with Andersson, the NHL isn't exactly being lit on fire by the two of the three picks immediately before him, and a whole lot of picks after him.

Which, interestingly enough, happens to coincide with those names not popping up in conversation as much these days.

 

[JHS]

Nobody affiliated with the Rangers said Lias was the most NHL ready pick at 7. Pierre McGuire said that.

On October 1st Gorton said he expected the next time the Rangers call Lias up he would stick in the NHL. That speaks of NHL readiness to me.

This article states how scouts believed Lias was the most NHL ready player in the draft.

Thoughts on New York Rangers Town Hall

It's time to really discuss Lias Andersson and his demotion to Hartford - FOREVER BLUESHIRTS

I think it's safe to say lots of other people beside Pierre thoughts this!

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

On October 1st Gorton said he expected the next time the Rangers call Lias up he would stick in the NHL. That speaks of NHL readiness to me.

Thoughts on New York Rangers Town Hall

They usually call up players when they think they're NHL ready. That's such an empty statement to build your whole narrative around.

"The next time the Rangers call Lindgren up, they expect him to stick in the NHL"

 

[JHS]

They usually call up players when they think they're NHL ready. That's such an empty statement to build your whole narrative around.

"The next time the Rangers call Lindgren up, they expect him to stick in the NHL"

Really? So the idea that a team selects a player based on NHL readiness and said player is not actually ready, and the same organization says we hope he's going to stick this time and he does not stick somehow paints a picture of an organization that has a clear picture of what this player is. Come on-- you can't really believe that.

They picked a 19 year old they felt was ready to play, wanted him to play, gave him a chance to prove himself and he ended up in the AHL multiple times this season. This tells me they overestimated what they were getting. It's really that simple. Lias may be great, I hope he is, but the blind defense of the Rangers organization on this pick is very confusing to me.

 

[Edge]

I just really can't help but feel if Andersson were born 10 weeks later, and was playing in the OHL right now, we really aren't having so many of these debates.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

They did not pick Lias because they thought he was close to NHL ready. They picked him because on their list he was the best option. But as @Edge alluded, it's not as if he's a bad pick when comparing him to others picked after him. Lias Andersson is 20 and already playing in the NHL. He's not in Juniors like Scheifele or Couture at the same age.

And for a player with "limited offense" (as I've seen people state), he's still contributing more on the score sheet than those offensive super talents Kostin and Tolvanen in the AHL.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I just really can't help but feel if Andersson were born 10 weeks later, and was playing in the OHL right now, we really aren't having so many of these debates.

That's the thing. Put Lias in junior hockey and he would tear it up. Because he already did at the age of 16.

 

[Rangers in 7]

truth is no matter who we drafted people were going to complain unless he puts up 100 points a season, im not worried about lias at all

 

[Edge]

truth is no matter who we drafted people were going to complain unless he puts up 100 points a season, im not worried about lias at all

I find myself more concerned with expectations than odds.

There are so many expectations with Andersson that any deviation will be a debate. Everything from scoring 48 instead of 55 points, or playing LW instead of Center, or whether a guy no one is talking about from the second or third round someday emerges as a star.

All of developments are the type of things that have a high probability of being brought up against Andersson.

And it's sad, because Andersson has a good shot to be a very important player for us. I just don't know if he'll ever be the obscure fantasy pick that some want, but can't necessarily point to from that 2017 draft.

 

[CommaSynapse]

They did not pick Lias because they thought he was close to NHL ready. They picked him because on their list he was the best option. But as @Edge alluded, it's not as if he's a bad pick when comparing him to others picked after him. Lias Andersson is 20 and already playing in the NHL. He's not in Juniors like Scheifele or Couture at the same age.

And for a player with "limited offense" (as I've seen people state), he's still contributing more on the score sheet than those offensive super talents Kostin and Tolvanen in the AHL.

And far more than that, the only guys to really succeed so far from the 2018 draft class, in my opinion, are Hischier, Pettersson, and Heiskanen. Patrick has struggled, but has been a regular. The rest of that first round hasn't really broken out yet as successful, top-shelf NHLers. Rasmussen and Middelstadt have played, as has Robert Thomas and Jokiharju, but they haven't broken out. I'd say Lias is still within an expected developmental curve. Given the game he plays, he can play different roles depending upon how his game translates. It's far too early to worry.

 

[haveandare]

Really? So the idea that a team selects a player based on NHL readiness and said player is not actually ready, and the same organization says we hope he's going to stick this time and he does not stick somehow paints a picture of an organization that has a clear picture of what this player is. Come on-- you can't really believe that.

They picked a 19 year old they felt was ready to play, wanted him to play, gave him a chance to prove himself and he ended up in the AHL multiple times this season. This tells me they overestimated what they were getting. It's really that simple. Lias may be great, I hope he is, but the blind defense of the Rangers organization on this pick is very confusing to me.

It's not blind at all. For his age and compared to everyone picked around him, he's doing fine. You're comparing him to this mental image you have of what anyone picked in the top 10 any year should be. It's unrealistic and just not in line with how the draft works.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

It's not blind at all. For his age and compared to everyone picked around him, he's doing fine. You're comparing him to this mental image you have of what anyone picked in the top 10 any year should be. It's unrealistic and just not in line with how the draft works.

He's comparing 27 year old Scheifele, Couture and Granlund to 20 year old Lias. Subconsciously.

By saying he has not been performing as expected he's just proving he is not looking at the comparison that matters. That of what players did in their D+2 season.

 

[Rangers in 7]

I find myself more concerned with expectations than odds.

There are so many expectations with Andersson that any deviation will be a debate. Everything from scoring 48 instead of 55 points, or playing LW instead of Center, or whether a guy no one is talking about from the second or third round someday emerges as a star.

All of developments are the type of things that have a high probability of being brought up against Andersson.

And it's sad, because Andersson has a good shot to be a very important player for us. I just don't know if he'll ever be the obscure fantasy pick that some want, but can't necessarily point to from that 2017 draft.

thats one of the biggest issues i have here....the draft is a crapshoot and there is obviously going to be some kid picked in the 5th round that turns into a stud....immediately everyone looks at lias like wtf why did we pick this guy....he still screams a more talented stepan, that might be a lazy comparison because step was a ranger too but he has the same qualities to me

leadership
defensive awareness
will chip in 55-60 points a year

im sure looking back if the rangers had drafted step in the first round we would call it a win but right now everyone wants production when these kids are 19, 20 years old and that just isnt realistic

 

[Edge]

thats one of the biggest issues i have here....the draft is a crapshoot and there is obviously going to be some kid picked in the 5th round that turns into a stud....immediately everyone looks at lias like wtf why did we pick this guy....he still screams a more talented stepan, that might be a lazy comparison because step was a ranger too but he has the same qualities to me

leadership
defensive awareness
will chip in 55-60 points a year

im sure looking back if the rangers had drafted step in the first round we would call it a win but right now everyone wants production when these kids are 19, 20 years old and that just isnt realistic

We all want stars, and we're going to need them to be successful.

But I hope we don't let the quest for the perfect, or the ideal, get in the way of the good.

The pressure is going to be substantial as this team looks to develop a winning team. But it can be very easy to pile on during that process as well.

It's natural defense mechanism. If we never believed in Santa in the first place, we won't be disappointed if the concept lets us down.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

That, and the common misconception that you should expect to draft a top line player 7th overall.

 

[Rangers in 7]

We all want stars, and we're going to need them to be successful.

But I hope we don't let the quest for the perfect, or the ideal, get in the way of the good.

The pressure is going to be substantial as this team looks to develop a winning team. But it can be very easy to pile on during that process as well.

It's natural defense mechanism. If we never believed in Santa in the first place, we won't be disappointed if the concept lets us down.

you hit the nail on the head, good teams and even great teams have more then just stars....lias can be the 5th or 6th best player on a team that wins a cup and thats ok

obviously we all want to hit that homerun but especially in this draft in particular no one is that right now....hes exactly the type of player we want on this team in 2-3 years as he continues to grow, to me he is potentially the future captain of this team but again its still way to early to project where him or anyone in that class will end up

 

[BklynTerp]

Since he was drafted people have conflated "NHL ready" with "likelihood of being a good NHL player"

I could be wrong, but I've always been under the impression that he was seen as someone who was an extremely safe bet to turn into a productive longterm NHL player. Given the prospect pool at the time, it was important that we hit on someone who would could be a big piece of the puzzle moving forward. To me it was never thought that his development was so far ahead of his peers that he would step into the NHL right away, or that when he did come to the NHL that he would produce at a high level right away.

 

[Edge]

That, and the common misconception that you should expect to draft a top line player 7th overall.

Some years you can, some years it's just not going to happen.

Some guys don't look like stars at 18, but are considered elite by their 24th birthday.

Some guys look like stars at 18, and end up being support players. Some bust.

We've come a long way, and there's more information than ever, but this still isn't an exact science.

Even the teams we reference as examples have some notable busts. And in almost every case, they also have a hell of a head start wither either a multitude of high picks over an extended period of time, and/or multiple top 2 or 3 picks.

You can have the best scouts, from every organization in the NHL, have all the data and information you heart desires, and without the right picks, in the right years, and the right amount of stars aligning, still not quite match your draft-day fantasies.

 

[Edge]

Since he was drafted people have conflated "NHL ready" with "likelihood of being a good NHL player"

I could be wrong, but I've always been under the impression that he was seen as someone who was an extremely safe bet to turn into a productive longterm NHL player. Given the prospect pool at the time, it was important that we hit on someone who would could be a big piece of the puzzle moving forward. To me it was never thought that his development was so far ahead of his peers that he would step into the NHL right away, or that when he did come to the NHL that he would produce at a high level right away.

For me, Andersson's most realistic upside was always a 55-60 point, second line NHL center.

Not a star. Not an offensive dynamo. But a player you win with.

He was generally seen as a guy with higher probability to play in the NHL, but not a guy you expected to be among the top offensive contributors from his draft class. He was seen as having a higher floor, but a lower ceiling.

But almost every single one of those statements has, at one time or another, been misconstrued or utilized to make a wide range of arguments, assertions and projects.

If we're doing an honest assessment, YES people should be at least a little disappointed that Andersson hasn't quite found his footing in the NHL yet.

But we shouldn't spend too much time trying to assemble tea leaves, or resigning ourselves to doom and gloom either.

And whether we're really high on a prospect, or not so much, these things take time and have a lot of ebb and flow to them.

 

[Inferno]

My issue with lias is, right now I don't see anything he does at a very high level. Like nothing. Speed, no. Passing? No. Board play? Hell no. Defensive ability? Not really. Shooting? Yet to beat a goalie clean on a hard shot that I can remember. Hockey iq? Meh, id say not really.. .. and frankly his balance is atrocious.

I can usually see a path for a kid to succeed...as of now lias had shown me basically nothing other than being a pest and willingness to engage in the dirty areas. Those are good aspects.....they're also aspects you'll find on a dime a dozen ahl player.

Lias will need to work on a bunch of things this off-season to be a solid nhler imho...his balance and edge work, foot speed, and board play all need to be huge priorities. If he can work on those things it'll buy him time to work on others....of he doesn't I'd wager he's traded sooner rather than later

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

My issue with lias is, right now I don't see anything he does at a very high level. Like nothing. Speed, no. Passing? No. Board play? Hell no. Defensive ability? Not really. Shooting? Yet to beat a goalie clean on a hard shot that I can remember. Hockey iq? Meh, id say not really.. .. and frankly his balance is atrocious.

I can usually see a path for a kid to succeed...as of now lias had shown me basically nothing other than being a pest and willingness to engage in the dirty areas. Those are good aspects.....they're also aspects you'll find on a dime a dozen ahl player.

Lias will need to work on a bunch of things this off-season to be a solid nhler imho...his balance and edge work, foot speed, and board play all need to be huge priorities. If he can work on those things it'll buy him time to work on others....of he doesn't I'd wager he's traded sooner rather than later

Thats sort of Lias' thing.. Hes not a star at one thing. Hes good at everything. Obiviously hes still young and will continue to develop... Give him time

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

Should’ve picked Mittelstadt, just as we suspected on draft day

 

[mulli25]

I always assumed they picked Lias under the idea of him having a high floor so to speak.

They had a lot of reason, and still do, to assume he will have a long respectable NHL career. Yeah, he may never light the world on fire but he will most likely stick in the league and bring a lot to the table. That's far from a guarantee, no matter where you draft someone.