Player Discussion Lias Andersson

[ManUtdTobbe]

Using +/- to make a point automatically invalidates the point, better luck next time JHS

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Right I get it. I’d argue those 10 minutes are about 5 more minutes than he actually has earned to play. He’s being handed an opportunity that many 20 year olds would dream of getting and he’s done nothing with it! He invisible during those 10 minutes and furthermore, he’s a minus 9 in the limited ice time he’s getting!!! He’s done literally nothing to earn more ice time and I’m sure Quinn would reward him with more time if he showed anyrhing( See Mica as evidence of that.). Anyone suggesting Lias should just be handed more time with better players seems to not understand hockey culture very well. Players earn opportunities and are not just given them. Lias needs to show something( if he’s capable of it) or else he will linger in the bottom 6.

Wayne Gretzky between 1988 and 1999 (After leaving Edmonton) had 1188 points in 791 games and was -33.

Must be an awful player

 

[UnSandvich]

Right I get it. I’d argue those 10 minutes are about 5 more minutes than he actually has earned to play. He’s being handed an opportunity that many 20 year olds would dream of getting and he’s done nothing with it! He invisible during those 10 minutes and furthermore, he’s a minus 9 in the limited ice time he’s getting!!! He’s done literally nothing to earn more ice time and I’m sure Quinn would reward him with more time if he showed anyrhing( See Mica as evidence of that.). Anyone suggesting Lias should just be handed more time with better players seems to not understand hockey culture very well. Players earn opportunities and are not just given them. Lias needs to show something( if he’s capable of it) or else he will linger in the bottom 6.

-9? Fun Fact, Ovi was a -35 in 2013. He was also 1st in goals and 8th in points (in the entire league)

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

He was drafted 56th overall. Not in the top 10 like Lias. You can’t strike out on top 10 picks( not saying the Rangers definitely have but it’s looking possible.) At this point, if Lias has anywhere near the career Anisimov has had, I’ll be surprised.

It seems the problem is that you’re expecting a top 10 pick to be a superstar, when that should really only be the expectation for the top 1 (maybe 2 depending on the draft year) picks

 

[nyr2k2]

Are we really doing the +/- thing? To me, +/- is only worth looking at if there's an extreme outlier.

 

[Miamipuck]

Can someone tell me if 9 goals and 9 assists in 52 games from a 20 year old rookie means he's going to suck ? I mean no chance to be better right?

Yeah I am using an extreme example.

As usual we get a specious argument from someone with no patience and clue about player development.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

To be fair, they're not being compared to Zuccarello, Stepan, and McDonagh. They're being compared to other kids around the league. Chytil is 15th among 18-20 year olds in scoring. Howden 21st and Andersson is off the board.

If your point is patience -- I agree. Plenty of time for these guys to get better. But it's also fair to say they're not blowing their cohort out of the water.

Couple things, comparing Chytil who just turned 19 to high 19 and 20 year olds isnt fair. Second, Howden has spent a lot of time injured this year, he was playing well and kind of hit a wall or was hurt or something. The other thing is that players all mature at different rates. Schiefle was being declared somewhat of an bad pick at first too and he looks unreal now.

 

[haveandare]

He was drafted 56th overall. Not in the top 10 like Lias. You can’t strike out on top 10 picks( not saying the Rangers definitely have but it’s looking possible.) At this point, if Lias has anywhere near the career Anisimov has had, I’ll be surprised.

He also played two entire season in the AHL before playing in the NHL.

You'll be surprised if Lias turns out to be a 40 point player based on his play in his first 30 or so NHL games?

 

[True Blue]

Can someone tell me if 9 goals and 9 assists in 52 games from a 20 year old rookie means he's going to suck ? I mean no chance to be better right?

No chance that a 20 year old, living his first full year in US gets better.

 

[JimmyG89]

I hope everyone here was an absolute beast at their job day 1 after being promoted. It usually doesn't work that way.

Lias is going to get better. How much better? We'll see but he's in the NHL at 20. Not many players do that, alone are successful. For every Elias Pettersson, there are tons of guys in the top 10 that need multiple seasons to get on track.

Imagine if we had the #2 pick and took Nolan Patrick. We'd be roasting this kid every day because we passed on Pettersson. I'm happy Lias is in the NHL and hasn't looked out of place. He's 34 games into his career. Let's better evaluate after he plays 100 games and see where he is then.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I hope everyone here was an absolute beast at their job day 1 after being promoted. It usually doesn't work that way.

Lias is going to get better. How much better? We'll see but he's in the NHL at 20. Not many players do that, alone are successful. For every Elias Pettersson, there are tons of guys in the top 10 that need multiple seasons to get on track.

Imagine if we had the #2 pick and took Nolan Patrick. We'd be roasting this kid every day because we passed on Pettersson. I'm happy Lias is in the NHL and hasn't looked out of place. He's 34 games into his career. Let's better evaluate after he plays 100 games and see where he is then.

But... But... Tolvanen is a future star! Kostin is a future star! Lias has no top-6 potential

 

[JHS]

Wayne Gretzky between 1988 and 1999 (After leaving Edmonton) had 1188 points in 791 games and was -33.

Must be an awful player

You love Lias— I get that. You make it painfully clear. Way to reach all the way to #99 for your source of why plus minus is irrelevant.

Now let’s talk real. For a player to be on the ice for 10 minutes a game, and to be on the ice for 9 more goals than that players team scores is fairly telling to me and others who think about things. So if the player is only on the ice for such limited time, one would naturally expect said player to be playing to minimize mistakes and play a responsible game out there. That’s certainly what the coach wants. You know, dump the puck in, chase it down, forecheck- basic stuff like that. What this -9 indicates to me is Lias’ lines are not doing that. Likely because he’s playing with horrible line mates but also, he’s just very slow and does not maintain puck possession well. The other team has the puck more often when he’s out there this why his plus minus is an indicator of his performance relative to others on the ice at the same time he is. Furthermore, Quinn is not increasing his responsibility( probably should not with a 20 year old) but to me this shows Lias can’t play those increased minutes yet. Sure plus minus is flawed but not a completely discredited stat when looking at someone with such putrid ice time.

In addition, can anyone name anything Lias has improved on this year? Like actually done better? Has he become more noticeable on the ice? Quicker to lose pucks? Scored more? Assisted more? Developed better responsibility? Increased his work ethic? Anything?

Everyone banking on this guy to just some how have his “ahhhh haaaa” moment is really throwing a lot of hope behind the belief that “well its just inevitable these type of picks just work out.” None of the reports from Hartford were good, his time in the NHL has been invisible— I just don’t see it.

 

[JHS]

It seems the problem is that you’re expecting a top 10 pick to be a superstar, when that should really only be the expectation for the top 1 (maybe 2 depending on the draft year) picks

This is not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying this pick was a flawed pick and his deficiencies show up a great deal in the NHL. Simply put, to be a top 2 line forward in the NHL the player needs speed. Lias is SLOW! Maybe he will improve his skating, if so, I do see a path forward for the guy. He’s close to the puck a lot and is in the right place a lot. He’s just a step or so too slow right now.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

This is not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying this pick was a flawed pick and his deficiencies show up a great deal in the NHL. Simply put, to be a top 2 line forward in the NHL the player needs speed. Lias is SLOW! Maybe he will improve his skating, if so, I do see a path forward for the guy. He’s close to the puck a lot and is in the right place a lot. He’s just a step or so too slow right now.

Have you ever watched Joe Pavelski play?

 

[Overcast]

This is not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying this pick was a flawed pick and his deficiencies show up a great deal in the NHL.

Such is the case with just about every 1st year rookie, even more so on a struggling, stripped down team that is in the first ~70 games of a rebuild. It's almost as if they have things to learn at the highest level of competitive hockey, and aren't finished products as 19/20 year olds..

Simply put, to be a top 2 line forward in the NHL the player needs speed. Lias is SLOW! Maybe he will improve his skating, if so, I do see a path forward for the guy. He’s close to the puck a lot and is in the right place a lot. He’s just a step or so too slow right now.

If Brian Boyle can improve his skating across a summer of working with a skating coach, I'm pretty sure just about anyone can do the same.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Are we really doing the +/- thing? To me, +/- is only worth looking at if there's an extreme outlier.

I find it more relevant in where a player ranks on their team. A plus player on a minus team, etc.

 

[Rongomania]

You love Lias— I get that. You make it painfully clear. Way to reach all the way to #99 for your source of why plus minus is irrelevant.

Now let’s talk real. For a player to be on the ice for 10 minutes a game, and to be on the ice for 9 more goals than that players team scores is fairly telling to me and others who think about things. So if the player is only on the ice for such limited time, one would naturally expect said player to be playing to minimize mistakes and play a responsible game out there. That’s certainly what the coach wants. You know, dump the puck in, chase it down, forecheck- basic stuff like that. What this -9 indicates to me is Lias’ lines are not doing that. Likely because he’s playing with horrible line mates but also, he’s just very slow and does not maintain puck possession well. The other team has the puck more often when he’s out there this why his plus minus is an indicator of his performance relative to others on the ice at the same time he is. Furthermore, Quinn is not increasing his responsibility( probably should not with a 20 year old) but to me this shows Lias can’t play those increased minutes yet. Sure plus minus is flawed but not a completely discredited stat when looking at someone with such putrid ice time.

In addition, can anyone name anything Lias has improved on this year? Like actually done better? Has he become more noticeable on the ice? Quicker to lose pucks? Scored more? Assisted more? Developed better responsibility? Increased his work ethic? Anything?

Everyone banking on this guy to just some how have his “ahhhh haaaa” moment is really throwing a lot of hope behind the belief that “well its just inevitable these type of picks just work out.” None of the reports from Hartford were good, his time in the NHL has been invisible— I just don’t see it.

Other folks have mentioned that tiny factor which plays into all of this - HE IS TWENTY. 20.

Save this haterade gulping post for four years from now if he hasn’t gone anywhere and sucks.

I, however, will be placing my bets elsewhere.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

You love Lias— I get that. You make it painfully clear. Way to reach all the way to #99 for your source of why plus minus is irrelevant.

Now let’s talk real. For a player to be on the ice for 10 minutes a game, and to be on the ice for 9 more goals than that players team scores is fairly telling to me and others who think about things. So if the player is only on the ice for such limited time, one would naturally expect said player to be playing to minimize mistakes and play a responsible game out there. That’s certainly what the coach wants. You know, dump the puck in, chase it down, forecheck- basic stuff like that. What this -9 indicates to me is Lias’ lines are not doing that. Likely because he’s playing with horrible line mates but also, he’s just very slow and does not maintain puck possession well. The other team has the puck more often when he’s out there this why his plus minus is an indicator of his performance relative to others on the ice at the same time he is. Furthermore, Quinn is not increasing his responsibility( probably should not with a 20 year old) but to me this shows Lias can’t play those increased minutes yet. Sure plus minus is flawed but not a completely discredited stat when looking at someone with such putrid ice time.

In addition, can anyone name anything Lias has improved on this year? Like actually done better? Has he become more noticeable on the ice? Quicker to lose pucks? Scored more? Assisted more? Developed better responsibility? Increased his work ethic? Anything?

Everyone banking on this guy to just some how have his “ahhhh haaaa” moment is really throwing a lot of hope behind the belief that “well its just inevitable these type of picks just work out.” None of the reports from Hartford were good, his time in the NHL has been invisible— I just don’t see it.

Me being a fan does not change the points I am trying to make. Using plus-minus to judge a player is not the best way to go. I keep hearing how great Tolvanen and Kostin are because their offensive skills are "elite" and they have a much higher ceiling etc.



Well, they can't even outscore a "bottom-6 prospect" like Lias. People keep bringing up how slow he is. You know who is also slow? Derek Stepan. Yet he was a very good 50-point 2-way center which is what Lias is projected to be if he reaches his potential.

And lastly, he is only 20. If you compare 20-year old Lias Andersson to 20-year olds who were drafted in the same range, we see some great players who played fewer NHL games at the same age.



I am not saying Lias is guaranteed to be better than ALL these players, but this is just another example of why it's too early to judge Lias Andersson.

He was drafted 56th overall. Not in the top 10 like Lias. You can’t strike out on top 10 picks( not saying the Rangers definitely have but it’s looking possible.) At this point, if Lias has anywhere near the career Anisimov has had, I’ll be surprised.

Mittelstadt is a -10. Doesn't that mean he's a bust as well?

 

[Sens]

He was drafted 56th overall. Not in the top 10 like Lias. You can’t strike out on top 10 picks( not saying the Rangers definitely have but it’s looking possible.) At this point, if Lias has anywhere near the career Anisimov has had, I’ll be surprised.

Mittekstadt has 26Pts in 68GP... other then that nobody selected after Andersson has done anything noteworthy

2017 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

If Andersson was a bad pick... then that entire 3017 draft was garbage

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Just another example of why it's too early to judge @Sens

 

[aufheben]

The reports from Hartford are never good on here.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Mittekstadt has 26Pts in 68GP... other then that nobody selected after Andersson has done anything noteworthy

2017 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

If Andersson was a bad pick... then that entire 3017 draft was garbage

Casey has 21 points actually, the same as Chytil.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Casey has 21 points actually, the same as Chytil.

And is -10 so he's a bust according to @JHS

 

[JHS]

Me being a fan does not change the points I am trying to make. Using plus-minus to judge a player is not the best way to go. I keep hearing how great Tolvanen and Kostin are because their offensive skills are "elite" and they have a much higher ceiling etc.



Well, they can't even outscore a "bottom-6 prospect" like Lias. People keep bringing up how slow he is. You know who is also slow? Derek Stepan. Yet he was a very good 50-point 2-way center which is what Lias is projected to be if he reaches his potential.

And lastly, he is only 20. If you compare 20-year old Lias Andersson to 20-year olds who were drafted in the same range, we see some great players who played fewer NHL games at the same age.



I am not saying Lias is guaranteed to be better than ALL these players, but this is just another example of why it's too early to judge Lias Andersson.



Mittelstadt is a -10. Doesn't that mean he's a bust as well?

So as often is the case, it seems like we are talking about two different things. I’m not saying Lias is a bust. That would be absurd. I’m pointing out things that I think make him a poor top 10 pick. I think we can agree that this season, he’s does nothing to really set himself apart and is hardly noticeable most nights. The article in the Post that was just written hints to a lot of concerning things, poor defensive play, lack of conditioning at the start of the season, poor use of the off season. This is all about someone who was billed as NHL ready when drafted. These issues are what’s leading to him being benched. Worse yet, all are totally within his control. These are not good signs for a player in his early 20’s!

Now the article also points out that it seems Quinn has driven his point through to Lias that he needs to work a lot harder and improve on many attributes of his game. Maybe that will sink in. If it does, GREAT!! I want this team to be successful. My main issue is, the Rangers are in a rebuild in which drafting is key! To me, it looks like they took a highly flawed player who may not have the fortitude to make it in this league and we were all told by management that this was a safe pick and he was NHL ready. Well that’s been proven not true and that makes me very concerned about managements skill set. That’s really my only argument here.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Nobody affiliated with the Rangers said Lias was the most NHL ready pick at 7. Pierre McGuire said that.