Confirmed with Link: Lias Andersson asks for trade. No longer with NYR.

[Hunter Gathers]

Okay, who would you have picked?

Mittelstadt? In the AHL
Vilardi? In the AHL
Tolvanen? Struggling in the AHL
Tippett? In the AHL
Rasmussen? In the AHL

Honestly, the best player drafted after Lias is Chytil but considering how upset Ranger fans were with that "reach" on draft day, I can only imagine the pitchforks being sharpened had we picked him at 7

I don't recall this board being upset with Chytil. In fact, I just re-read the draft thread and it was a typical draft thread. Some (like me) were happy, some didn't know much about him, and a handful wanted someone else.

So this is revisionist history or something you saw elsewhere.

This board wasn't thrilled with the Andersson pick. I was always of the belief that the 2017 draft lacked top-end talent. But I figured that Andersson was a safe bet to become a solid player. Looking back on that thread is also interesting.

 

[duhmetreE]

Okay, who would you have picked?

Mittelstadt? In the AHL
Vilardi? In the AHL
Tolvanen? Struggling in the AHL
Tippett? In the AHL
Rasmussen? In the AHL

Honestly, the best player drafted after Lias is Chytil but considering how upset Ranger fans were with that "reach" on draft day, I can only imagine the pitchforks being sharpened had we picked him at 7

Suzuki? Necas? Valimaki? Brannstrom?

Being in the AHL is not the problem. Being a black hole has become the problem.

 

[Levitate]

AHL means riding the bus across america and less salary than SHL.

Yeah, the problem here though is you get guys who push so hard to come over and assume they're going to make the NHL at a young age and then don't want to play in the AHL because they think they're too good for it/don't get paid enough/think it should be NHL or back home.

But in Andersson's case for instance...he never dominated the AHL, he never played there and looked like a guy who was too good and needed to be called up. It probably would have been better to have left him in Sweden for a couple of years but apparently he wanted to come over more quickly? Same thing with Kravtsov to soem extent...he wanetd to come over quickly and assumed he'd make the NHL and when he didn't it was a big issue.

Basically...the AHL may not be the most comfortable place but if your goal is to make the NHL it's going to get you there faster than going back home in a lot of cases. It'll prepare you for the NHL style of play and it will let your coaches/team watch your progress and call you up more quickly.

I dont think it's always the best development path or that guys HAVE to play there, but if you come over right after being drafted and are close to the NHL but not quite ready, then the AHL is your best bet I think. IF you spent several years in your home league getting good and then come over and don't make it, well I understand a bit more if you want to go back.

Eh, I dunno, basically I just think that even if the AHL isn't the most comfortable place if your goal is to play in the NHL then you need to be willing to put in some work in the AHL if you're not quite ready

 

[Kovalev27]

I had no clue on chytil. That was a hell of a pick. If we’re going to trash the org for Lias you have to praise them for the Homerun on the youngest kid in the draft (or one of the youngest turning into a stud)

I wanted mittelstadt I still do. If I could trade them one for one right now I would. I rather fail on major upside than draft a guy that tops out as Oscar lindberg (ps Lindberg could skate circles around Lias so not sure where that came from)

 

[Star Ocean]

Yeah, the problem here though is you get guys who push so hard to come over and assume they're going to make the NHL at a young age and then don't want to play in the AHL because they think they're too good for it/don't get paid enough/think it should be NHL or back home.

But in Andersson's case for instance...he never dominated the AHL, he never played there and looked like a guy who was too good and needed to be called up. It probably would have been better to have left him in Sweden for a couple of years but apparently he wanted to come over more quickly? Same thing with Kravtsov to soem extent...he wanetd to come over quickly and assumed he'd make the NHL and when he didn't it was a big issue.

Basically...the AHL may not be the most comfortable place but if your goal is to make the NHL it's going to get you there faster than going back home in a lot of cases. It'll prepare you for the NHL style of play and it will let your coaches/team watch your progress and call you up more quickly.

I dont think it's always the best development path or that guys HAVE to play there, but if you come over right after being drafted and are close to the NHL but not quite ready, then the AHL is your best bet I think. IF you spent several years in your home league getting good and then come over and don't make it, well I understand a bit more if you want to go back.

Eh, I dunno, basically I just think that even if the AHL isn't the most comfortable place if your goal is to play in the NHL then you need to be willing to put in some work in the AHL if you're not quite ready

The best swedes always developed in SHL over AHL. Hank was no exception.

Very few swedes has developed in AHL. I can only think of one succes story and that is Victor Olofsson.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I had no clue on chytil. That was a hell of a pick. If we’re going to trash the org for Lias you have to praise them for the Homerun on the youngest kid in the draft (or one of the youngest turning into a stud)

I wanted mittelstadt I still do. If I could trade them one for one right now I would. I rather fail on major upside than draft a guy that tops out as Oscar lindberg (ps Lindberg could skate circles around Lias so not sure where that came from)

Lias is basically the equivalent of Kyle Chipchura. Similar values as a player. But you then see the 14-years in draft gaps so you figure that the scouts have improved their ability to scout the "glue" guys. So the idea of an Andersson makes sense. Pure leader (allegedly), pure hard worker (allegedly), true "glue" guy (allegedly). You don't think that he's going to be a complete black hole of talent as that just doesn't happen with 1st round picks these days. You also don't expect them to miss so hard on the intangibles that they value so much.

So not only did they miss on talent, here, they also missed on character. That must be so challenging to do that I actually give them credit for accomplishing it.

 

[nyr2k2]

Even so, is a fourth line center an ideal haul for a 7OA? No one had LA below 12 if I recall.

The scouting staff must be to blame a little also. It was obviously a move to take advantage of the Swedish culture here in NY. It was an overreach - it was a mistake.

The 4C thing, I just meant with a proper attitude he would be that now. He's 21, so room for improvement. But no, if he topped out as a 4C that would not be acceptable.

 

[JimmyG89]

It's strange cause there is talent there. He had two strong showing recently against LeHigh and Albany.

Whoever gets him probably moves him to wing. They aren't committed to him being a center and know changes need to be made.

Make it simpler for him and then see if he can move back to center

 

[Harbour Dog]

I am very interested to see what sort of value Lias has league-wide right now. I'm thinking a mid-second rounder at best.

e - assuming we get a pick in return, of course. I just don't see Tolvanen or Puljujarvi being options.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I am very interested to see what sort of value Lias has league-wide right now. I'm thinking a mid-second rounder at best.

e - assuming we get a pick in return, of course. I just don't see Tolvanen or Puljujarvi being options.

If I am another team, I do not offer a 2nd round pick for him at all.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Just a train wreck situation all around.

Quinn obviously had no use for the kid, and used him that way. But you'd think Gorton would eventually insert himself and force Quinn to give him a bigger role, at least temporarily, before sending the kid down to Hartford. To me, it's just baffling that you wouldn't give a young, high draft pick a shot with real line mates.

Also, I think Smith is a huge problem. If you're a young player looking for your shot, watching the waste of space that is converted D Brendan Smith absorbing NHL F minutes like a black hole has to be soul-crushing. Kravstov alluded to it when he exercised his EAC and ran back to the KHL.

And finally, Lias just kind of sucks. If you're going to be a weak skater, you need to be smart and relentless. Outside of a game or two in the preseason, I never saw that from the kid, and you can't blame Quinn for that.

Sulking in Hartford, leaving the team, and publicly requesting a trade does nothing to help the situation. If he really wanted out, he should have been trying harder than ever. Either you get called back up to the big club and maybe get a Top-9 chance (ala Chytil), or you raise your capital enough to facilitate a move. His actions just reek of petulance and selfishness.

Also, can we please get the AHL team out of Hartford. Sorry to anyone who lives there, but it's a depressed, high-crime city without a whole lot of culture. Why would a kid coming over from Europe want to spend any amount of time there? Look at what Montreal has done. Their team is in Laval, right across the river from Montreal. Allows them to keep a closer eye on their prospects and is in a major metropolitan area that offers things to be excited about. Ditto for Toronto. Their farm team is right in the city.

 

[Harbour Dog]

If I am another team, I do not offer a 2nd round pick for him at all.

Same.

But there are 30 other teams. I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that we get a pick as high as 45th for him.

That said, I will not be disappointed if we end up making a small add to get another out of favour prospect, or even manage a 1-for-1 swap for another guy.

 

[romba]

I am very interested to see what sort of value Lias has league-wide right now. I'm thinking a mid-second rounder at best.

e - assuming we get a pick in return, of course. I just don't see Tolvanen or Puljujarvi being options.

Lower the expectations here, mid third rounder at best right now.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I am very interested to see what sort of value Lias has league-wide right now. I'm thinking a mid-second rounder at best.

e - assuming we get a pick in return, of course. I just don't see Tolvanen or Puljujarvi being options.

He's been underwhelming, everyone now knows he's got a questionable attitude, and he just publicly demanded a trade.

His value has been torpedoed.

 

[Levitate]

The Smith thing is a red herring. He’s getting 4th line minutes and PKs. He’s not blocking guys. The idea shouldn’t be “this fourth liner who gets 10 minutes is blocking me”. Smith didn’t block Kravtsov realistically. The rangers didn’t want Kravtsov getting fourth line minutes.
It’s garbage to think that a fourth line vet is a problem. It’s an excuse and nothing more.

 

[Synergy27]

Also, can we please get the AHL team out of Hartford. Sorry to anyone who lives there, but it's a depressed, high-crime city without a whole lot of culture. Why would a kid coming over from Europe want to spend any amount of time there? Look at what Montreal has done. Their team is in Laval, right across the river from Montreal. Allows them to keep a closer eye on their prospects and is in a major metropolitan area that offers things to be excited about. Ditto for Toronto. Their farm team is right in the city.

This is a good idea. I can only imagine the political hurdles standing in the way of it though.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

The Rangers wont trade him just to be rid of him and take whatever in return.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

The Smith thing is a red herring. He’s getting 4th line minutes and PKs. He’s not blocking guys. The idea shouldn’t be “this fourth liner who gets 10 minutes is blocking me”. Smith didn’t block Kravtsov realistically. The rangers didn’t want Kravtsov getting fourth line minutes.
It’s garbage to think that a fourth line vet is a problem. It’s an excuse and nothing more.

The fact that he's getting any fourth line minutes is a joke.

Not to mention, this team could be running a 1/2/3A/3B style lineup if not for pylons like Smith and Haley getting regular ice time. Those are trash wingers that no young C is going to succeed with.

So yes. Smith and Haley absolutely are blocking our prospects. It's garbage to pretend otherwise.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Also, can we please get the AHL team out of Hartford. Sorry to anyone who lives there, but it's a depressed, high-crime city without a whole lot of culture. Why would a kid coming over from Europe want to spend any amount of time there? Look at what Montreal has done. Their team is in Laval, right across the river from Montreal. Allows them to keep a closer eye on their prospects and is in a major metropolitan area that offers things to be excited about. Ditto for Toronto. Their farm team is right in the city.

They already moved them once.....not sure why they moved them back.

 

[Harbour Dog]

If a mid-third rounder is the absolute best case, then I think I would only move him for another prospect.

Can he play in the SHL after walking out on our contract? I assume that we would hold his rights indefinitely if that were the case?

 

[East Coast Bias]

Also, can we please get the AHL team out of Hartford. Sorry to anyone who lives there, but it's a depressed, high-crime city without a whole lot of culture. Why would a kid coming over from Europe want to spend any amount of time there? Look at what Montreal has done. Their team is in Laval, right across the river from Montreal. Allows them to keep a closer eye on their prospects and is in a major metropolitan area that offers things to be excited about. Ditto for Toronto. Their farm team is right in the city.

That's fine but where are you putting the team?

We've been down this road before. This area isn't flush with locations to build an arena (cheaply) or existing arenas to play in.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

If a mid-third rounder is the absolute best case, then I think I would only move him for another prospect.

Can he play in the SHL after walking out on our contract? I assume that we would hold his rights indefinitely if that were the case?

If there's not a good deal on the table, I loan Lias to the SHL, and tell the kid to play well enough for some team to want to trade for you. The only difference between Andersson and Puljujarvi value-wise is that Puljujarvi has played well in Liiga and recovered some value. If Andersson does the same, it's a no-brainer one-for-one swap.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Necas looks good but there’s no way the team would have double dipped with Czech centers in the same 1st round.

lol as I type Necas having a career game against Toronto. Svechnikov already elite at 19, Aho elite C from a 2nd round pick. Must be nice...

 

[Beer League Sniper]

That's fine but where are you putting the team?

We've been down this road before. This area isn't flush with locations to build an arena (cheaply) or existing arenas to play in.

Westchester County Center? I'd have to do some research. It's not working in Hartford, that's for sure. The team is perennially bottom-5 in attendance, and has been for years.

 

[Absolut]

I am not absolving Lias of responsibility, but our inability to deal with young European players is disturbing. Kravtsov bolts to Russia (albeit temporarily). Kakko looks miserable and lost. Something is not right.