GDT: Let the Free Agency Madness begin

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Chrispy

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Because even when the Canes loaded with d-men for years have never really done it and even with a more loaded defense still kind of puts them at a disadvantage to running 4 forwards like basically every team in the NHL.
Brent Burns is one of the best PP players on the team. If you are picking the best 4 players for EK to pass to, Burns is on the list. He was tied for 6th in PP goals and led in PP assists last year with no other QB to pass to his shot most nights.

It's either Burns-EK with TDA on the second PP, or EK with 4 forwards and Burns-TDA on the second. I think the first is more likely.
 

Canes

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Brent Burns is one of the best PP players on the team. If you are picking the best 4 players for EK to pass to, Burns is on the list. He was tied for 6th in PP goals and led in PP assists last year with no other QB to pass to his shot most nights.

It's either Burns-EK with TDA on the second PP, or EK with 4 forwards and Burns-TDA on the second. I think the first is more likely.
Yet somehow the powerplay will be still be mid at best.
 

bobc222

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Really worry that our pursuit of EK is trying to flex that we have the biggest brain in the room through our cap space by acquiring all these top D. Shuffling the deck chairs without addressing a major need. Instead we could just make the smart move and target a forward by dealing from our position of defensive strength. Sometimes the right move isn't convoluted.
 

Nikishin Go Boom

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Really worry that our pursuit of EK is trying to flex that we have the biggest brain in the room through our cap space by acquiring all these top D. Shuffling the deck chairs without addressing a major need. Instead we could just make the smart move and target a forward by dealing from our position of defensive strength. Sometimes the right move isn't convoluted.
Our need is more scoring. No matter where we get it
 

bobc222

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Our need is more scoring. No matter where we get it
There's only so much power play time. It doesn't matter if you've got the Tampa PP1 and the Avalanche as your PP2 if the lightning players stay out there 1:49 and the second unit gets 11 seconds. We have enough PP capable players. Adding more does nothing if they don't get significant, meaningful minutes. And if they do, it costs other good players their meaningful minutes.
 

Nikishin Go Boom

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There's only so much power play time. It doesn't matter if you've got the Tampa PP1 and the Avalanche as your PP2 if the lightning players stay out there 1:49 and the second unit gets 11 seconds. We have enough PP capable players. Adding more does nothing if they don't get significant, meaningful minutes. And if they do, it costs other good players their meaningful minutes.
74 of his points last season were 5v5
 

Finlandia WOAT

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Really worry that our pursuit of EK is trying to flex that we have the biggest brain in the room through our cap space by acquiring all these top D. Shuffling the deck chairs without addressing a major need. Instead we could just make the smart move and target a forward by dealing from our position of defensive strength. Sometimes the right move isn't convoluted.
Karlsson beat Canes scoring leader Necas by 30 points

Karlsson at ES alone beat Necas

The concern is if they break up their 1b pairing in Skjei/Pesce to make it happen. That'll sting, replacing defensive stalwart Pesce with 4th forward Karlsson, but at this point it looks like Pesce has played his last game in the sightless eye anyway
 

Canes

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Our need is more scoring. No matter where we get it
I will agree with this. Loading up our D with offensive minded d-men is a sneaky way to help score more goals, especially considering d-men skate a lot more than forwards every game. I just hope we find a way to keep a good stay at home type d-man for each pairing.
 

bobc222

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74 of his points last season were 5v5

Karlsson beat Canes scoring leader Necas by 30 points

Karlsson at ES alone beat Necas

The concern is if they break up their 1b pairing in Skjei/Pesce to make it happen. That'll sting, replacing defensive stalwart Pesce with 4th forward Karlsson, but at this point it looks like Pesce has played his last game in the sightless eye anyway
Sure, but as I said, then 4/6 of your other great defenseman are twiddling their thumbs every minute he plays. You're too concentrated in one area. Have great defense, sure, but when it comes at the expense of upgrading the forwards, when you're already stacked on D it's just redundant.

Maybe an example will help:

If I've got Vasy in net and Sorokin on the bench, am I going to go trade forwards and defensemen to acquire Shesterkin as well?
 
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TheReelChuckFletcher

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Really worry that our pursuit of EK is trying to flex that we have the biggest brain in the room through our cap space by acquiring all these top D. Shuffling the deck chairs without addressing a major need. Instead we could just make the smart move and target a forward by dealing from our position of defensive strength. Sometimes the right move isn't convoluted.

To me, it's not as complicated as everyone is trying to make it. Skjei and Pesce are primed to get blockbuster extensions after how well they've played together for several seasons, and everybody knows it. The question is, do you want to be the team that becomes super cap-strapped holding these albeit-great players and forcing ELCs and cheap players into key bottom-6 roles, or are you willing to do a little creative destruction to prevent such an outcome and to allow premium bottom-six guys like Staal/Martinook/Fast to congregate in the lineups instead? I think we all know what the Canes prefer to do.
 

Finlandia WOAT

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Sure, but as I said, then 4/6 of your other great defenseman are twiddling their thumbs every minute he plays. You're too concentrated in one area. Have great defense, sure, but when it comes at the expense of upgrading the forwards, when you're already stacked on D it's just redundant.
I'm just saying if they need scoring- which they do- then the 100 point defenseman that can be had for relatively cheap because of the publicly known trade request and flat cap limiting potential landing spots is a not a bad option.
 

Nikishin Go Boom

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Sure, but as I said, then 4/6 of your other great defenseman are twiddling their thumbs every minute he plays. You're too concentrated in one area. Have great defense, sure, but when it comes at the expense of upgrading the forwards, when you're already stacked on D it's just redundant.
How so?

What are we losing by having Karlsson play more and having Skjei, Chatfield, or pesce play less?
 

bobc222

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To me, it's not as complicated as everyone is trying to make it. Skjei and Pesce are primed to get blockbuster extensions after how well they've played together for several seasons, and everybody knows it. The question is, do you want to be the team that becomes super cap-strapped holding these albeit-great players and forcing ELCs and cheap players into key bottom-6 roles, or are you willing to do a little creative destruction to prevent such an outcome and to allow premium bottom-six guys like Staal/Martinook/Fast to congregate in the lineups instead? I think we all know what the Canes prefer to do.
Yeah but when Orlov walks and Karlsson is old making 11.5 and Burns retries, is Nikishin+Slavin enough to keep the cup window open?

How so?

What are we losing by having Karlsson play more and having Skjei, Chatfield, or pesce play less?
Because instead of paying $10m to have those guys play less, you could instead get a forward that will actually play meaningful minutes like a top line winger.
 

TheReelChuckFletcher

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Yeah but when Orlov walks and Karlsson is old making 11.5 and Burns retries, is Nikishin+Slavin enough to keep the cup window open?


Because instead of paying $10m to have those guys play less, you could instead get a forward that will actually play meaningful minutes like a top line winger.

The Canes IMO would probably sign one more veteran after Burns retires to a short-term, and if Scott Morrow is talented enough to beat him and enter the top-4, the Canes are probably thinking to themselves that they're looking pretty damned good.
 

Nikishin Go Boom

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Yeah but when Orlov walks and Karlsson is old making 11.5 and Burns retries, is Nikishin+Slavin enough to keep the cup window open?


Because instead of paying $10m to have those guys play less, you could instead get a forward that will actually play meaningful minutes like a top line winger.
While im not advocating for Karlsson, he would play more than a top line winger.
 

bobc222

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While im not advocating for Karlsson, he would play more than a top line winger.
Yes, but my point is, I'd rather play a good D and good W than a great D and bad W. With Karlsson you have more dead money on the defense that's doing nothing on the bench. Copy and pasting my goal analogy from above:

If I've got Vasy in net and Sorokin on the bench, am I going to go trade forwards and defensemen to acquire Shesterkin as well?

No, of course not. It's not because Shesterkin is bad, he's great!!! It's because every minute he's in net, I'm wasting cap space paying Vasy and Sorokin to sit on the bench doing nothing to help my team win the game.
 
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Navin R Slavin

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Sure, but as I said, then 4/6 of your other great defenseman are twiddling their thumbs every minute he plays. You're too concentrated in one area. Have great defense, sure, but when it comes at the expense of upgrading the forwards, when you're already stacked on D it's just redundant.

Maybe an example will help:

If I've got Vasy in net and Sorokin on the bench, am I going to go trade forwards and defensemen to acquire Shesterkin as well?
Yeah, this is a terrible example, and I shouldn't have to explain why.
 

Nikishin Go Boom

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Yes, but my point is, I'd rather play a good D and good W than a great D and bad W. With Karlsson you have more dead money on the defense that's doing nothing on the bench. Copy and pasting my goal analogy from above:

If I've got Vasy in net and Sorokin on the bench, am I going to go trade forwards and defensemen to acquire Shesterkin as well?

No, of course not. It's not because Shesterkin is bad, he's great!!! It's because every minute he's in net, I'm wasting cap space paying Vasy and Sorokin to sit on the bench doing nothing to help my team win the game.
What bad wingers are we running?

Goalies play every second of the game so how is this a fair comparison of saying Karlsson and Burns would play 23 minutes a night and Skjei playing 18 minutes a game instead of 21?
 
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CanesUltimate11

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Yes, but my point is, I'd rather play a good D and good W than a great D and bad W. With Karlsson you have more dead money on the defense that's doing nothing on the bench. Copy and pasting my goal analogy from above:

If I've got Vasy in net and Sorokin on the bench, am I going to go trade forwards and defensemen to acquire Shesterkin as well?

No, of course not. It's not because Shesterkin is bad, he's great!!! It's because every minute he's in net, I'm wasting cap space paying Vasy and Sorokin to sit on the bench doing nothing to help my team win the game.
not the best example though as you only have one goaltender at a time to eat up all 60 mins. When you have 120 mins of ice time you can divide that up pretty effectively between them all. PP is where you run the risk of losing an advantage those guys bring.
 

Big Daddy Cane

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There is scant cap information about the 05-06 and 06-07 seasons. CapGeek, via the Internet Archive, has information for 07-08 to the point that CapFriendly's archives start.

The max sum of the 4 highest paid defensemen on a cup winning roster since that point was 39.96%, equivalent to $33.37 mil today; that was Detroit 07-08 with Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart (deadline add) and Kronwall. At $87.5 mil, that's equivalent to $34.97 mil.

That's an extreme outlier in the sample. The next highest is Colorado (Makar, Johnson, Girard, Toews) at 29.57%, equivalent to $24.69 mil today. At $87.5 mil, it's $25.87 mil.

Boston is a close third at 29.05% with Chara, Kaberle (deadline add), Seidenberg and Ference,

Orlov, Slavin and Burns account for 21.95% in 23-24 and if $87.5 mil in 24-25, 20.95%.

To stay level with Colorado, Karlsson would need to be down to 7.62% ($6.36 mil) this year or 8.62% ($7.54 mil) next year, assuming an $87.5 mil cap.

Not a sub reply to anyone. Just an informational post.
 

Canes

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There is scant cap information about the 05-06 and 06-07 seasons. CapGeek, via the Internet Archive, has information for 07-08 to the point that CapFriendly's archives start.

The max sum of the 4 highest paid defensemen on a cup winning roster since that point was 39.96%, equivalent to $33.37 mil today; that was Detroit 07-08 with Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart (deadline add) and Kronwall. At $87.5 mil, that's equivalent to $34.97 mil.

That's an extreme outlier in the sample. The next highest is Colorado (Makar, Johnson, Girard, Toews) at 29.57%, equivalent to $24.69 mil today. At $87.5 mil, it's $25.87 mil.

Boston is a close third at 29.05% with Chara, Kaberle (deadline add), Seidenberg and Ference,

Orlov, Slavin and Burns account for 21.95% in 23-24 and if $87.5 mil in 24-25, 20.95%.

To stay level with Colorado, Karlsson would need to be down to 7.62% ($6.36 mil) this year or 8.62% ($7.54 mil) next year, assuming an $87.5 mil cap.

Not a sub reply to anyone. Just an informational post.
So Karlsson needs to be a deadline add is what I am getting from this lol
 
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