News Article: Less padding = more production

[Hank4Hart]

Agreed.

Demanding they 'shrink' the equipment .0132 % isnt going to do a damn thing.

How about for a start get rid of those ridiculous cheating football shoulder pads and 'shrink' the catching glove down to simply a glove like it was intended. The blocker to protect the front of the hand and wrist, like it was intended.

Goalie pads to wrap around the legs, to protect the legs, like it was intended. Not puff out to protect the goal.

The Goalie was never intended to look different than any other player. So that is the point. The end game. Get the goalie equipment to be safe AND still be the same size as the other players.

If you look at the beginning of the game , the goalie starts out looking like the other players . The pads then stop wrapping around like cricket pads and start to flare out . The blockers get bigger, . Then the mask came in and thats fine but then the blockers and pads get even bigger. Then finally the glove starts to resemble a fishing net.

Its so funny that every time they 'limit' something, they just make something else bigger. Now since they just go down and 'fan out' into the butterfly, make the torso as HUGE as possible. Make ridiculous shoulder pads to pile on the inches of net it takes up.

Anyone who claims the the current goalie equipment is mainly to protect the goalie is willfully lying. Its just disingenuous . If we want every goalie to have a GAA of .098 and save percentage of .970 then the future looks bright for you.

Hey, weren't you the guy that told me my NHL spec glove was not the same size as NHL goalies? Thanks for the laugh by the way.

Scurr, if you are reading this, even though we disagree on everything on this thread. You have my respect for sticking to your guns and not spewing made up crap to help your argument.

 

[Chubros]

I'd like to see what the equipment manufacturers could come up with if their mandate was to design something with minimal size with maximum protection. With modern materials, I'm sure that goalies could get all the protection in a much smaller package.

Generally, I believe that reducing the size of goalie equipment is a good thing for the game. You'd see more scoring, but also more acrobatic saves. Netminders might have to adapt their playing style, but the game is always changing.

The problem with threads like this is you're always going to get a bunch of guys who play net that argue their hearts out against anything that has the potential to change whatever they're used to. Basically asking a goalie his opinion on making equipment smaller is like asking a convicted criminal to determine how long he should have to spend in jail.

 

[Scurr]

Regarding Miller, if you have to put a standard 1.5 inch (just an arbitrary number) of padding wrapping around each goalies arm and body. Proportionally, its obviously going to look like a bigger increase when you wrap that padding around a thinner goalie than a thick bodied goalie. Its like a less extreme comparison of trying wrap that 1.5 inch of padding around a pencil as opposed to a water bottle, well DUH its going to look like the pencil increased in size by 10x and the bottle is only going to look bigger marginally. Its simple mathematics, really.

Miller is the pencil... Brodeur is the water bottle... why does Miller look bigger?

I'd like to ask you about another point. It has come to my attention that goalies are propping their chest protectors up on their pants so that it stays up when their shoulders sag in the butterfly. Is this something you've done/seen? Is it an unfair competitive advantage? Wouldn't overlapping the gear provide more protection?

Thanks for that Chubros.

I wish I hadn't made the comments about bruises but I don't like being told that I don't know what it's like to get hit with a puck. I've been hit, I have the bruises/scars to prove it.

 

[Canucker]

I'd like to see what the equipment manufacturers could come up with if their mandate was to design something with minimal size with maximum protection. With modern materials, I'm sure that goalies could get all the protection in a much smaller package.

Generally, I believe that reducing the size of goalie equipment is a good thing for the game. You'd see more scoring, but also more acrobatic saves. Netminders might have to adapt their playing style, but the game is always changing.

The problem with threads like this is you're always going to get a bunch of guys who play net that argue their hearts out against anything that has the potential to change whatever they're used to. Basically asking a goalie his opinion on making equipment smaller is like asking a convicted criminal to determine how long he should have to spend in jail.

Yes, and who better to tell a goalie what is acceptable and what isn't, than people who have never played the position at any competitive level.

 

[DustyMartellaughs]

I'm a goalie, and notice that players today, from the waist up, look like goalies from the 1990's . You can't talk about equipment change without making it an across the board proposal. Players don't need massive shoulder pads, massive elbow pads, or shin pads eight inches wide.

If you want to address where reasonable change can be made to goalie gear, start with the pants. Most guys wear pants far bigger than they need. Cut the cheater off the catching glove. That's about it, though. Guys just shoot harder, with a quicker release, than ever, and no way am I scaling down my chest protector until you can show me a smaller one where I'm not getting hurt in it.

 

[Dado]

Yes, and who better to tell a goalie what is acceptable and what isn't, than people who have never played the position at any competitive level.

Self-regulation never works, in any business/job.

 

[Fat Tony]

Self-regulation never works, in any business/job.

It wouldn't/shouldn't be self-regulation any more than having Shanahan in charge of NHL player discipline is self-regulation.

 

[Hank4Hart]

Miller is the pencil... Brodeur is the water bottle... why does Miller look bigger?

I don't know what to say to that, it seems like Brodeur covers more space with his chest protector. We won't know who has the bigger protector until someone actually takes a tape and measures so its really a moot point.

I'd like to ask you about another point. It has come to my attention that goalies are propping their chest protectors up on their pants so that it stays up when their shoulders sag in the butterfly. Is this something you've done/seen? Is it an unfair competitive advantage? Wouldn't overlapping the gear provide more protection?

It used to be that way, but the league already changed the regulations so that it doesn't happen anymore. http://www.milehighhockey.com/2012/3/9/2852455/ask-the-staff-goalie-equipment-edition

The chest/arm protectors were required to be contoured to the shoulders even in a crouched position (so guys like our own Giguere couldn't crouch low and have the chest/arm unit ride up around their ears taking away shooting area). Several other regulations relating to elbow and shoulder pad size were implemented as well in an effort to keep padding for "protection" from getting so big that it disproportionately increased the netminder's profile in net.

For the 2008-2009 season the league instituted a handful of more "subtle" rules on the knee and leg area to prevent goalies from using those features of the leg pad to close the five hole quicker. In addition they tightened up wording on some of the areas of the chest/arm protector to drive the units toward an even more fitted, contoured construction without extraneous padding creating a larger profile in net. They also began the move toward giving the league full discretion on whether the chest/arm unit rode up or "floated" when in a crouched position.

Pretty sure 90% of the goalies today in the NHL wear suspenders over their chest protector to keep the shoulder padding from propping up in the butterfly. Some goalies tuck in their chest protector and some like to have it stick out of the pants, its all preference, but as long as the suspenders are there from my experience the chest protector won't pop up.

I don't know if any goalies are cheating the rule in the NHL, there might be a few that are getting away with it. But that's more on the rule not being enforced rather than the rule not being there at all.

I wish I hadn't made the comments about bruises but I don't like being told that I don't know what it's like to get hit with a puck. I've been hit, I have the bruises/scars to prove it.

Ya I was probably a bit over the board as well. I guess my point is that getting hit by a puck once or twice in a game is quite different from getting 30-40 shots nightly.


Anyway, I agree with kevinsane, I was watching a game from the mid 80s and I realized how small all the players on the ice looked across the board, there was so much room for skaters to move and shoot the puck, so its not just goalies that have increased in size.

In the last twenty years, players have gotten much bigger and stronger and thicker in terms of body muscle, gear has gotten bigger as well because of the increase danger with all the players being bigger and stronger. Yet, the net and the rink stayed the same size. The rink is just a lot more clogged up as a whole now than it used to be and I think that's the biggest reason why the scoring chances have gone down.

 

[Hank4Hart]

Self-regulation never works, in any business/job.

Its a double sided sword, really. Kay Whitmore is in charge of making sure all gear fits the bill, and you'd be surprised to find out how many pieces of goalie gear he has actually had to reject NHL goalies from using, lol. In fact, Jonathan Bernier's new gear actually got rejected just a couple days ago because the blocker flap was taking up unnecessary space.

NHL goalies are getting paid to stop the puck, its natural that they try to find ways to make their stats better, its like baseball and steroids. But I think as a whole Whitmore has done a decent job in trying to keep everything in check.

 

[Hank4Hart]

Guys just shoot harder, with a quicker release, than ever, and no way am I scaling down my chest protector until you can show me a smaller one where I'm not getting hurt in it.

Bingo, its the release that has gotten so much faster than it used to be.

I'd like to see what the equipment manufacturers could come up with if their mandate was to design something with minimal size with maximum protection. With modern materials, I'm sure that goalies could get all the protection in a much smaller package.

I agree, if different materials could be used to achieve the same protection and mobility I think its a great idea to be able to have more scoring. In the past, its been brought up that kevlar could be used as an alternative material for chest protector, the problem though, is that the new material would probably take away any form of mobility for the goalies.

 

[Royal Canuck]

Come on people, you think NHL goalies are going overkill on padding?

That's overkill. And they still let in 10+ goals a game.

Leave the goalies as they are now.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Come on people, you think NHL goalies are going overkill on padding?

That's overkill. And they still let in 10+ goals a game.

Leave the goalies as they are now.

This picture just weirds me out.

 

[adamzilla]

The biggest problem with the NHL is incompetent, inconsistent and/or biased officiating. Penalties in the regular should be penalties in the postseason. A team should not be rewarded in later rounds for instances that they would normally be penalized. It sets it up for other teams to be confused on what is a penalty and what is not a penalty. Players can't play a consistent game because they don't know what will get them into trouble and what won't. Officiating is a huge concern in this league, but it always seems to be ignored. If you want goal production, these idiots need to make calls consistently no matter what the situation. So sick of this clutch and grab garbage that seemed to be allowed halfway through last season. The reason it pisses me off is that it takes a lot of planning to create a team. By the refs being able to change how they call games out of nowhere, a strongly put together team may now be at a disadvantage. It takes away all of the long-term hardwork that a GM is doing when they decide to switch the rules halfway through last season.

Agreed. Fix the officiating and the offense will come.

 

[Hank4Hart]

Besides, even if Miller in particular was wearing an over sized chest protector, its clearly not doing him anything good this season

 

[mossey3535]

I'd like to see what the equipment manufacturers could come up with if their mandate was to design something with minimal size with maximum protection. With modern materials, I'm sure that goalies could get all the protection in a much smaller package.

Generally, I believe that reducing the size of goalie equipment is a good thing for the game. You'd see more scoring, but also more acrobatic saves. Netminders might have to adapt their playing style, but the game is always changing.

The problem with threads like this is you're always going to get a bunch of guys who play net that argue their hearts out against anything that has the potential to change whatever they're used to. Basically asking a goalie his opinion on making equipment smaller is like asking a convicted criminal to determine how long he should have to spend in jail.

No. I have arguably the most mobile, protective unit that exists, and it's still pretty bulky. I picked it because I thought it was the most streamlined unit that would still protect me. The average C/A unit sold at retail is bigger.

I've worn gear from back in the day that was essentially like form-fitting sleeves with a separate catcher-style chest protector and let me tell you, even with modern materials a streamlined unit is going to have issues with pressure points and inability to spread impact over larger area. The basic one-piece C/A design hasn't changed since the first Vaughn 1000 unit in the 80's, and there's a reason for that.

Another problem is that the easiest way to increase protection is to increase the number of layers 'on top'. But even though there isn't more lateral net coverage, you're going to get people looking at the unit and going - oh, their C/A is too big. A lot of this is just perception.

Besides, my only post in this thread involved daring them to shrink equipment again. Go ahead. Unless you find a way to make smaller, less-athletic guys play goal some part of the technique will adapt to overcome equipment deficiencies. And yes, there are plenty of equipment deficiencies right now.

The real key is to give shooters time and space. A guy with time and space will pick corners at will. Scurr, haven't you played on teams then where your most skilled guy will ventilate the goalie in practice but he just has too much attention on him during the game to use those skills? To me that is the essential conflict in hockey - skill versus physicality. Honestly, the goalie has little to do with that battle.