Leon Draisaitl vs Nikita Kucherov: Who is the Best European Forward?

[Canovin]

Draisaitl's most common forward linemate this year (5v5) is Connor McDavid. It's not even particularly close, not counting Zach Hyman. If you make the sample larger, McDavid laps the field.

Draisaitl literally plays more wing than center. It's a verifiable fact.

Not to mention he isn't even good defensively. It used to be a talking point that you would take the center for two-way play. Now people take the center because it says "center" on NHL,com. It's a dogma.

That speaks to the versatility of Drai. Can we ask Kuckerov to play center?

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I actually think that if people watch Draisatal they will be extremely impressed on how he can force his will, particularly in goal scoring.

Kucherov plays a more crafty, shifty type of game and is more subtle.


50 games is a large enough sample size.

This makes zero sense as the team loses in 4 game not the individual performance.

Yeah I don't know I have watched a lot of games and rarely he wows me. He is clearly extremely effective offensively, but if I am watching a Edmonton game I pretty regularly don't notice him. I always notice Kucherov.

 

[Machinehead]

That speaks to the versatility of Drai. Can we ask Kuckerov to play center?

Ok, he's versatile. That's certainly an argument in his favor but we shouldn't just say "the center" for a guy who's a part-time center.

 

[ijuka]

Ok, he's versatile. That's certainly an argument in his favor but we shouldn't just say "the center" for a guy who's a part-time center.

I mean, Draisaitl still is a center if he can play as a center, which he can.

Just because a person rides a bicycle doesn't mean he forgets how to drive a car, etc.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Coin flip. Both are top 5 players in the league after McDavid. In the mix with McKinnon for second best player.

 

[Machinehead]

I mean, Draisaitl still is a center if he can play as a center, which he can.

Just because a person rides a bicycle doesn't mean he forgets how to drive a car, etc.

And just because you can drive a car, it doesn't inherently make you better than a world-class cyclist.

 

[Canovin]

Ok, he's versatile. That's certainly an argument in his favor but we shouldn't just say "the center" for a guy who's a part-time center.

Draisaitl playstyle is more suited for center whether he's part time here or part time there. Big, strong, excellent vision and IQ and great anticipation along with excellent passing and playmaking and can control the pace of the game. Oh and he's great at face-offs

Where he needs to be stronger at is his 2 way game but was Crosby any better at the same age?

 

[Machinehead]

Draisaitl playstyle is more suited for center whether he's part time here or part time there. Big, strong, excellent vision and IQ and great anticipation along with excellent passing and playmaking and can control the pace of the game. Oh and he's great at face-offs

Where he needs to be stronger at is his 2 way game but was Crosby any better at the same age?

Yes!

Crosby was meh defensively but he was never even close to single-digit percentile. Also, players getting much better defensively is an exception.

Everything you said describes Kucherov except he's not that big and doesn't take faceoffs.

"I automatically take the center" is oversimplification on a good day. Much more so when the center doesn't play center most of his minutes.

 

[Canovin]

Yes!

Crosby was meh defensively but he was never even close to single-digit percentile. Also, players getting much better defensively is an exception.

Everything you said describes Kucherov except he's not that big and doesn't take faceoffs.

"I automatically take the center" is oversimplification on a good day. Much more so when the center doesn't play center most of his minutes.

So what you're saying is Kucherov is everything like Draisaitl except he doesn't take face offs and isn't as big? Well if everything is equal, wouldn't you go with the bigger guy?

 

[Machinehead]

So what you're saying is Kucherov is everything like Draisaitl except he doesn't take face offs and isn't as big? Well if everything is equal, wouldn't you go with the bigger guy?

Did I say everything was equal? I think Kucherov is a bit better. A case could be made for Draisaitl albeit "he plays center 30% of the time" is a poor one.

I think hockey fans significantly overstate the impact of size between guys who are like 2-3 inches apart. We're not comparing Tage Thompson to Mats Zuccarello here.

Regardless, we're moving the goal posts to who's better, which I didn't even mention until just now. My point was that it's silly to say Draisaitl "because center" when he barely plays center.

 

[BurnabyJoe7]

But is 37 games enough a large enough sample size? What if the other guy has 136 playoff games played?

And, if your team loses in 4 games and you score 5 points, are you really a good playoff performer?

If your team (who won the president's trophy that season) gets swept in the first round and you score 2 points in that series does that make you a good playoff performer? That's Kucherov.

We get it, you value team success over everything. That's not what the poll is asking. It doesn't take a genius to realize one player has more playoff experience than the other. In the games draisaitl has played he has outpaced Kucherov in PPG. Yeah his sample size isn't the same as Kucherov's but you go with what data is available.

I think Marchand has very obviously proven more in the playoffs than Thompson.

Nothing gets past you.

 

[Duke74]

Yeah I don't know I have watched a lot of games and rarely he wows me. He is clearly extremely effective offensively, but if I am watching a Edmonton game I pretty regularly don't notice him. I always notice Kucherov.

You're right that Draisaitl isn't as dynamic or flashy as other top forwards, which may account for the reason that many people underrate him. He's more sneaky and uses his IQ to sneak to spots or finds teammates with saucer passes. He's not particularly fast and doesn't deke very often, but vision and anticipation are two of his greatest assets alongside his shot and passing abilities. What's interesting is that all star hockey players possess unique combinations of different skills.

 

[Duke74]

Did I say everything was equal? I think Kucherov is a bit better. A case could be made for Draisaitl albeit "he plays center 30% of the time" is a poor one.

I think hockey fans significantly overstate the impact of size between guys who are like 2-3 inches apart. We're not comparing Tage Thompson to Mats Zuccarello here.

Regardless, we're moving the goal posts to who's better, which I didn't even mention until just now. My point was that it's silly to say Draisaitl "because center" when he barely plays center.

OT, but I love your dog.

 

[Machinehead]

OT, but I love your dog.

He's the best!

That's actually Trouba's dog and we've adopted him as a mascot.

They sell stuffed versions at MSG.

 

[1specter]

Kucherov easily. Drai is a PP merchant and sucks defensively

 

[CanadienShark]

Kucherov when he's banged up is capable of putting up 30 in the post-season and he doesn't have the benefit of the best player on his line or team. Draisaitl is good but Kucherov is better.

You unable to look up stats on NHL.com?

 

[leafsfan5]

Drai is a better goalscorer and playmaker

How tho?

Kucherov has 252 assists in his last 265 games (4 seasons worth of data). An average of 78 assists per season

Draisaitl has 231 assists in his last 273 games (4 seasons worth of data). An average of 69 assists per season

Kucherov is the 2nd best playmaker in the NHL

 

[Buck Naked]

Kucherov easily. Drai is a PP merchant and sucks defensively

Isn't PP the reason to Kucherov's high point totals in the playoffs? All while Draisaitl is over ppg in ES points in his playoff career.

 

[Buck Naked]

How tho?

Kucherov has 252 assists in his last 265 games (4 seasons worth of data). An average of 78 assists per season

Draisaitl has 231 assists in his last 273 games (4 seasons worth of data). An average of 69 assists per season

Kucherov is the 2nd best playmaker in the NHL

Not saying that one is better than the other, but comparing assists is not the best way to determine who the better playmaker is. By your logic Tyson Barrie is a better playmaker than Rasmus Dahlin over the past three seasons. And we all know that isn't true.

 

[McPoyle]

Drai is a PP merchant

In the last 2 years, both players have gotten a similar % of points on the PP.

Kuch 71/165 (43.0%)

Drai 91/210 (43.3%)

Negligible difference.

 

[leafsfan5]

Not saying that one is better than the other, but comparing assists is not the best way to determine who the better playmaker is. By your logic Tyson Barrie is a better playmaker than Rasmus Dahlin over the past three seasons. And we all know that isn't true.

I mean of course, Dahlin's level of help hasn't been near Barrie's for the past few years

But for Drai/Kucherov they have similar levels of support. Draisaitl has McDavid while Kucherov has a deeper roster to help him, making it easier to compare raw totals

 

[Canovin]

Did I say everything was equal? I think Kucherov is a bit better. A case could be made for Draisaitl albeit "he plays center 30% of the time" is a poor one.

I think hockey fans significantly overstate the impact of size between guys who are like 2-3 inches apart. We're not comparing Tage Thompson to Mats Zuccarello here.

Regardless, we're moving the goal posts to who's better, which I didn't even mention until just now. My point was that it's silly to say Draisaitl "because center" when he barely plays center.

30% more at center than Kucherov lol

6'2 210lbs Draisaitl vs 5'11 180lbs Kucherov. 30lbs is a sizeable difference

 

[PuckG]

Kucherov easily. Drai is a PP merchant and sucks defensively

Except for the statistical fact that they produce similar amounts on the power play relative to their overall production. But don’t let facts get in the way of your anti-Oilers feelings.

 

[Buck Naked]

I mean of course, Dahlin's level of help hasn't been near Barrie's for the past few years

But for Drai/Kucherov they have similar levels of support. Draisaitl has McDavid while Kucherov has a deeper roster to help him, making it easier to compare raw totals

Nah, one player never compares to a stacked roster. Even if that player is McDavid. Especially since Draisaitl spent a lot of time away from McDavid over that span. Kucherov always played on a stacked roster.

 

[Felidae]

You're the one posting their past stats and I followed with some lol.

And Drai is currently higher in the stats too

Aside from Kucherov's 128 points season, Drai has been better than Kucherov since

My post was exclusively about who the better playmaker was because the person I responded to claimed Draisatl was a better goal scorer AND playmaker.

I said the former was true but not the latter. Hence posting only their assist stats to prove my point.