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Player Discussion Leo Carlsson

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ZegrassyKnoll said:
One difference for me between Carlsson and Sennecke is that, despite being a twig, Beckett already seems confident and willing to throw his body around.

The worry I have with Leo is that, even if he fills out, convincing him to be physical might be like convincing Getz to shoot more. I just think it's hard to get a player to think that way when they're already 23/24.

That said I don't think he needs to be a very physical player to be successful, just a little bit might go a long way for him.
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I have a slightly differing take. Pre and post draft I've always been somewhat impressed by Carlsson' s relative strength with possession of the puck given his frame. In the SHL and the WC he was a lot harder to knock off the puck than you'd expect from a guy his age with his frame. That became less of a factor in the NHL as bigger and stronger guys were knocking him off his skates but he still has a fair number of moments where he can keep his balance and possession under physical pressure.

I think there's a difference, in taking about being physical between a guy who will be physically capable to bull his way through physical pressure and a guy who uses his size to throw the body around. Someone like Getzlaf was able to and often did both. But all you'd really want and need from Carlsson is the former, utilizing the mass he still has room to build to create and maintain separation for himself to find space where necessary or bull his way past pressure where the space isn't there. I see no reason why Leo can't eventually get to that point unless he's lazy in the weight room.
 
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HanSolo said:
I have a slightly differing take. Pre and post draft I've always been somewhat impressed by Carlsson' s relative strength with possession of the puck given his frame. In the SHL and the WC he was a lot harder to knock off the puck than you'd expect from a guy his age with his frame. That became less of a factor in the NHL as bigger and stronger guys were knocking him off his skates but he still has a fair number of moments where he can keep his balance and possession under physical pressure.

I think there's a difference, in taking about being physical between a guy who will be physically capable to bull his way through physical pressure and a guy who uses his size to throw the body around. Someone like Getzlaf was able to and often did both. But all you'd really want and need from Carlsson is the former, utilizing the mass he still has room to build to create and maintain separation for himself to find space where necessary or bull his way past pressure where the space isn't there. I see no reason why Leo can't eventually get to that point unless he's lazy in the weight room.
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Yeah agree. His strength on the puck is a huge asset - I just think some people hope he will become a hard hitter/real bull dog and I think those people will be disappointed.
 
ZegrassyKnoll said:
Yeah agree. His strength on the puck is a huge asset - I just think some people hope he will become a hard hitter/real bull dog and I think those people will be disappointed.
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I mean how many first line centers fit that mold to begin with? I agree with you I just think it's a silly thing to expect.
 
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In the highlights of his SHL play I remember him having episodes of physicality as well. He's not prime Getzlaf, but he might have some physicality in crunch time. We'll see more this year with a bit added weight
 
I think that’s the only aspect of his game that could similar to Sundin, Mats would sort of plow his way through defenders because of his size and strength rather than pushing/shoving/hitting. I see Leo being physical in that sense. Definitely different than Getz who would like often initiate contact and finish his hits, even if it would sacrifice forechecking pressure a bit.
 
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Mr Rogers said:
I think that’s the only aspect of his game that could similar to Sundin, Mats would sort of plow his way through defenders because of his size and strength rather than pushing/shoving/hitting. I see Leo being physical in that sense. Definitely different than Getz who would like often initiate contact and finish his hits, even if it would sacrifice forechecking pressure a bit.
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Agreed 100%. Sundin was a power forward in the sense that he went wherever he wanted to go but he wasn’t out there crushing guys, and that’s what I hope to see from Leo.
 
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Mr Rogers said:
I think that’s the only aspect of his game that could similar to Sundin, Mats would sort of plow his way through defenders because of his size and strength rather than pushing/shoving/hitting. I see Leo being physical in that sense. Definitely different than Getz who would like often initiate contact.
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I for the most part hated how physical Getzlaf was. I understand it was part of his game, but I don’t need my superstar hitting, fighting, blocking shots, etc. in game 15 of the regular season.
 
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Sean Garrity said:
I for the most part hated how physical Getzlaf was. I understand it was part of his game, but I don’t need my superstar hitting, fighting, blocking shots, etc. in game 15 of the regular season.
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Oh man, I could not disagree more. There were games (particularly in the playoffs, but also plenty of times in early season games) where Getzlaf absolutely took over physically. It was glorious to watch. Defensemen would just bounce off him. You couldn't move him off the puck and he would demolish anyone who looked at him funny. Then he'd make a no-look backhand pass right onto Perry's tape, and Perry would score as he "accidentally" tripped and took out the goalie in the process.

I certainly don't NEED my superstar to do that (Selanne is my favorite player of all time), but it was a really fun aspect of Getzlaf's game and really enjoyable to see.

All that to say, I don't think Carlsson will be that. Like others, I see more Sundin and Barkov, where he'll use his size to his advantage but he won't necessarily weaponize it or get aggressive with it. And that's fine. There's no sense trying to make Carlsson play a way he's not comfortable with. He'll be elite playing his way.
 
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A new Mats Sundin is born in Leo Carlsson a see some similarities and also Henrik Zetterberg for the hockey iq/ defence play and playmaking abilities.
 
32 points in his first 59 games. 3 in 4 this year.
It's super early but he's putting up the points I expected despite how the team looks.
I think him and Sennecke on a line could eventually be a thing. Big + Fast, super high hockey IQ.
I wonder if Gauthier will end up working better with Zegras.
 
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Carlsson has to get better in F/Os. Sub-40% for a 1C is unacceptable and will diminish his offensive potential when many of his shifts begin with chasing the puck on a lost F/O.

Is it due to lack of experience/strength/effort ? I don't know but he hasn't shown much improvement since last year, and no one on his line (Killorn/Gauthier) can cover for him in the circle.
 
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Emerald Duck said:
Carlsson has to get better in F/Os. Sub-40% for a 1C is unacceptable and will diminish his offensive potential when many of his shifts begin with chasing the puck on a lost F/O.

Is it due to lack of experience/strength/effort ? I don't know but he hasn't shown much improvement since last year, and no one on his line (Killorn/Gauthier) can cover for him in the circle.
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This..
 
Emerald Duck said:
Carlsson has to get better in F/Os. Sub-40% for a 1C is unacceptable and will diminish his offensive potential when many of his shifts begin with chasing the puck on a lost F/O.

Is it due to lack of experience/strength/effort ? I don't know but he hasn't shown much improvement since last year, and no one on his line (Killorn/Gauthier) can cover for him in the circle.
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I've seen somewhere that there's a correlation between age and FO% until about 5 or 6 years in, when things stabilize. It's just not something young players typically do well at.

Of course there's also self sorting involved ... Lousy faceoff guys get fewer opportunities as they get older, so older guys taking most faceoffs tend to be the ones who proved to be good at it. Which leaves younger players to face better competition in the dot. Which drops their percentage even further.

Dunno if Leo will become a good faceoff guy, but even if he does it likely won't be for 3-4 more years. Just how it is. I mean, there's a reason you never see 19-20 year olds taking critical faceoffs in the postseason. If it's late in game 7 and it's a 1 goal game, we all know it's gonna be the wiley vet, not the talented kid taking it.
 
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FiveTacos said:
I've seen somewhere that there's a correlation between age and FO% until about 5 or 6 years in, when things stabilize. It's just not something young players typically do well at.

Of course there's also self sorting involved ... Lousy faceoff guys get fewer opportunities as they get older, so older guys taking most faceoffs tend to be the ones who proved to be good at it. Which leaves younger players to face better competition in the dot. Which drops their percentage even further.

Dunno if Leo will become a good faceoff guy, but even if he does it likely won't be for 3-4 more years. Just how it is. I mean, there's a reason you never see 19-20 year olds taking critical faceoffs in the postseason. If it's late in game 7 and it's a 1 goal game, we all know it's gonna be the wiley vet, not the talented kid taking it.
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I think Hazy mentioned it a few games ago that you'll never see Euros jumping into the league at a young age and be good at faceoffs. It will take time. I'm sure this will be and is being addressed in his development. Though I would love for this team to have a good mentor for him regarding that and there isn't one.
 
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Frosted Tips said:
I think Hazy mentioned it a few games ago that you'll never see Euros jumping into the league at a young age and be good at faceoffs. It will take time. I'm sure this will be and is being addressed in his development. Though I would love for this team to have a good mentor for him regarding that and there isn't one.
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Well another European lead the league in FO% last season, and that is San Jose's Nico Sturm. Not sure if he is available at all, but the ask shouldn't be insurmountable and he would fit in nicely in a third or fourth line role with us. Just saying.
 
Isn't the key to face-offs being good at cheating without getting caught cheating? I feel like most players at the NHL level have the motor skills and reaction speed necessary to win face-offs, but the ones who are good at it have a specific mindset and bag of tricks they use and have no problem cheating to win... which is why Getz and Kesler were so strong in the dot.
 
Emerald Duck said:
Carlsson has to get better in F/Os. Sub-40% for a 1C is unacceptable and will diminish his offensive potential when many of his shifts begin with chasing the puck on a lost F/O.

Is it due to lack of experience/strength/effort ? I don't know but he hasn't shown much improvement since last year, and no one on his line (Killorn/Gauthier) can cover for him in the circle.
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I think it's an experience/repetitions/coaching thing. I've tried to watch closely when he's taking faceoffs. I don't think it's a strength issue. He's a bit listless (at least relatively) on the attempt. Instead of getting the stick down and pulling back with purpose he's kind of just trying to whack it back and a few times I've noticed he's just not snappy enough on the attempt and just gets the timing wrong.

I think this is definitely coachable and improvable. But it definitely needs to improve soon.

I wanted to make the comparison to Malkin who needed 4 years in the NHL before he ever got above 45% but Leo isn't even in that 40% range right now and so far he's worse than last year.
 
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