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Player Discussion Leo Carlsson

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Ducks said:
Isn't the key to face-offs being good at cheating without getting caught cheating? I feel like most players at the NHL level have the motor skills and reaction speed necessary to win face-offs, but the ones who are good at it have a specific mindset and bag of tricks they use and have no problem cheating to win... which is why Getz and Kesler were so strong in the dot.
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There's definitely a bag of tricks involved that you have to learn.

Found someone who looked at faceoffs by age. You can definitely see a trend early as guys go through an apprenticeship period, reach tradesmen status in their mid 20s, and can become a Musashi of faceoffs if they are still doing it at age 35+. Anything you get better at at 35+ had to be mostly a learned/experience thing.

Our guys have work to do no doubt, but let's also temper expectations. They're not gonna be faceoff aces without a few years of experience, any more than we can magically have the PP unit suddenly conjure up the kind of chemistry it usually takes hundreds of games together to develop.

FO_s_3.jpg

www.coppernblue.com

Faceoffs By Age

A look at how NHL players improve their faceoff percentage over time.
www.coppernblue.com www.coppernblue.com
 
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FiveTacos said:
There's definitely a bag of tricks involved that you have to learn.

Found someone who looked at faceoffs by age. You can definitely see a trend early as guys go through an apprenticeship period, reach tradesmen status in their mid 20s, and can become a Musashi of faceoffs if they are still doing it at age 35+. Anything you get better at at 35+ had to be mostly a learned/experience thing.

Our guys have work to do no doubt, but let's also temper expectations. They're not gonna be faceoff aces without a few years of experience, any more than we can magically have the PP unit suddenly conjure up the kind of chemistry it usually takes hundreds of games together to develop.

FO_s_3.jpg

www.coppernblue.com

Faceoffs By Age

A look at how NHL players improve their faceoff percentage over time.
www.coppernblue.com www.coppernblue.com
Click to expand...
Leo isn’t just young, he’s objectively bad at it. 38.4% last year, 28.9% this year. Historically bad. He’s 3rd worst in the last 20 years for seasons with 300+ faceoffs, behind Dach and McCann. Jack Hughes is 4th, 5th, and 7th on the list, so it doesn’t mean he will be horrible as a player, but he’s not just the average young player at it.
 
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Ducks DVM said:
Leo isn’t just young, he’s objectively bad at it. 38.4% last year, 28.9% this year. Historically bad. He’s 3rd worst in the last 20 years for seasons with 300+ faceoffs, behind Dach and McCann. Jack Hughes is 4th, 5th, and 7th on the list, so it doesn’t mean he will be horrible as a player, but he’s not just the average young player at it.
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Yup it’s really his only true “flaw.” Hopefully as he continues to get reps in he’ll progress. I’m not sure about those other guys you mentioned, but he wasn’t even playing center leading up to his draft, so that could be a part of it.
 
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Thankfully face-offs are something that he can essentially work on on his own.

Although I would love for all of our centers to be improving.
 
Leo's a strong guy, and has pretty good size. As someone mentioned before, he just sort of stands there and flicks his stick at the puck. It makes it seem like no one has taught him proper technique, or he hasn't bothered to practice it. All he has to do is get down lower and lean on his stick a little, and while he won't be great at it right away, simply doing that will make it so it's not almost an automatic loss every time.
 
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Pretty sure Leo played wing in the SHL his D-1 & DY, and wasn't taking faceoffs presumably, so that might factor into his early struggles?
 
What a stud. He looks like a young Sundin or Geno flying through the zones with his big frame.
 
Ducks DVM said:
Leo isn’t just young, he’s objectively bad at it. 38.4% last year, 28.9% this year. Historically bad. He’s 3rd worst in the last 20 years for seasons with 300+ faceoffs, behind Dach and McCann. Jack Hughes is 4th, 5th, and 7th on the list, so it doesn’t mean he will be horrible as a player, but he’s not just the average young player at it.
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Well either he gets to at least 45% or so, or he'll ultimately be playing wing.

But again, it's a learned skill, there's no objective reason why he shouldn't be able to improve it over the next few years. That said, it WILL take years of work to get good at it.

Figures in a way ... growing up you see kids practicing stickhandling, passing, shooting, fancy dekes, etc.. They imagine themselves taking a shootout attempt for the game winner, or picking a corner on a one timer, etc.. But a kid would have to be a weirdo to practice faceoffs for an hour a day with the same fervor, imagining themselves winning the last draw to protect a 1 goal lead.
 
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FiveTacos said:
Well either he gets to at least 45% or so, or he'll ultimately be playing wing.

But again, it's a learned skill, there's no objective reason why he shouldn't be able to improve it over the next few years. That said, it WILL take years of work to get good at it.

Figures in a way ... growing up you see kids practicing stickhandling, passing, shooting, fancy dekes, etc.. They imagine themselves taking a shootout attempt for the game winner, or picking a corner on a one timer, etc.. But a kid would have to be a weirdo to practice faceoffs for an hour a day with the same fervor, imagining themselves winning the last draw to protect a 1 goal lead.
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It's also something that's really hard to practice on your own, even if you're motivated to do it. And there's only so good you're going to get at it by practicing against other kids or other players who aren't great at it. You get better by learning those tricks that the more advanced faceoff guys know. That will only come by practicing and playing against experienced NHL centers.
 
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Tied for 2nd in the league with 4 GW goals. The lack of assists are more on his team-mates not finishing. The plays and sets up have been there.
 
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Him and Zegras are lethal together. When you put two extremely high iq and high skilled players together they can really make magic. Give them time to figure it out and they’ll be producing like crazy in a few months. One of the many ways you can see how smart they are is in how they play their positions interchangeably. When one goes up the other can cover for him and play more of that center role. They are very in sync.
 
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I wonder how long they’ll stay together. it looks like Cronin is a fan of that pairing. It’s just a lot of resources to use on one line with both of them but it sure paid off last night.
 
Mr Rogers said:
I wonder how long they’ll stay together. it looks like Cronin is a fan of that pairing. It’s just a lot of resources to use on one line with both of them but it sure paid off last night.
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If Terry can get back to producing it would by the first line time to work this out.

edit - hopefully Leo playing with a playmaker will encourage him to shoot more. His shot/game is down from last year, and I don’t think he’s going to keep scoring at a 20% clip.
 
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Mr Rogers said:
I wonder how long they’ll stay together. it looks like Cronin is a fan of that pairing. It’s just a lot of resources to use on one line with both of them but it sure paid off last night.
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They just need Killorn to play well. If they crash the net good things will happen. Leo saw the play happening and immediately went to the net.

The pass from Z on the Killorn goal was also a great play as well. They need to know where each other will be and it will work.

Terry is stuck with two Vets who are struggling to score goals. But he has also been turning over the puck more. Leo seems to be dumping and chasing but if he can win those board battles with his size , so be it. Maybe have Z carry over the puck?
 
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Leonardo87 said:
They just need Killorn to play well. If they crash the net good things will happen. Leo saw the play happening and immediately went to the net.

The pass from Z on the Killorn goal was also a great play as well. They need to know where each other will be and it will work.

Terry is stuck with two Vets who are struggling to score goals. But he has also been turning over the puck more. Leo seems to be dumping and chasing but if he can win those board battles with his size , so be it. Maybe have Z carry over the puck?
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It looks like Cronin might’ve found some lines that work.
Zegras Leo Killorn
Vatrano Strome Terry
Cutter Lundy Leason

Then the island of misfits line

McGinn Mctavish Fabbri

Vatrano leads the team in shots and won’t stay under 3% shooting percentage. With all this said, Cronin will probably throw the likes into the blender on the first sign of struggles.
 
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DaGeneral said:
It looks like Cronin might’ve found some lines that work.
Zegras Leo Killorn
Vatrano Strome Terry
Cutter Lundy Leason

Then the island of misfits line

McGinn Mctavish Fabbri

Vatrano leads the team in shots and won’t stay under 3% shooting percentage. With all this said, Cronin will probably throw the likes into the blender on the first sign of struggles.
Click to expand...

That 3rd line has been very good.
 
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If Leo had better linemates all season his numbers would be better.

How much better? Who knows. But while he has made some mistakes, he has absolutely been dragged down by terrible wings.

I honestly really liked Colangelo’s game last night and think he would be a good fit, but I feel like after he tried to force Cutter on the top line for so long, the pendulum has swung the other way and he won’t play anybody but a “seasoned” vet with Leo.
 
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ZegrassyKnoll said:
If Leo had better linemates all season his numbers would be better.

How much better? Who knows. But while he has made some mistakes, he has absolutely been dragged down by terrible wings.

I honestly really liked Colangelo’s game last night and think he would be a good fit, but I feel like after he tried to force Cutter on the top line for so long, the pendulum has swung the other way and he won’t play anybody but a “seasoned” vet with Leo.
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It’s very very clear that Leo has to hit the gym full psycho mode this off season and gain a lot of muscle.
 
Leonardo87 said:
Great story here...



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We need to get z out of here, he will be a bad influence with his attitude problems. :sarcasm:

Edit: but that's awesome of him, I remember one time I was interviewing Adam Devine (the guy from pitch perfect) and Jerrod Nieman back to back and the same thing happened. It was a life saver they said yes. I would have been dead with my chief lol
 
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