Player Discussion Leo Carlsson

[Hockey Duckie]

He really never got hype from day one. A lot of Ducks fans here wanted Fantilli over him. Leo has played better than Fantilli and better overall than Bedard (don’t care how many points he has, he has no defense)

The production is not where I’d hoped, but it’s close, but it’s not all on him, he had points taken away from the league(most on the team), and they took PP time away from him to favor the vet unit which I can I understand from a a coaching staff perspective, since that unit has been producing.

A couple of multi point games and he will be back on pace for a very good rookie season.

Carlsson got hype, but just like the McTavish draft, that hype was often drowned out. I was one of the few that wanted Carlsson over Fantilli.

I'm also one of the few that wanted Carlsson outside of the NHL for a year, either at the SHL or AHL level. I still feel that Carlsson's development would have been best served with a year at the SHL or AHL level, as a top-6C, before going to the NHL.

 

[AngelDuck]

Carlsson got hype, but just like the McTavish draft, that hype was often drowned out. I was one of the few that wanted Carlsson over Fantilli.

I'm also one of the few that wanted Carlsson outside of the NHL for a year, either at the SHL or AHL level. I still feel that Carlsson's development would have been best served with a year at the SHL or AHL level, as a top-6C, before going to the NHL.

That’s interesting. I completely disagree. But will never be proven either way. The “struggles” he’s having are pretty standard stuff for a high end prospect in his D+1. I can think of countless direct comparables who faced the same thing

Players like Eichel, Barkov, MacKinnon, Draisaitl all had serious ups and downs early in their careers and all became elite players by 22-23 at the latest.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

That’s interesting. I completely disagree. But will never be proven either way. The “struggles” he’s having are pretty standard stuff for a high end prospect in his D+1. I can think of countless direct comparables who faced the same thing

Players like Eichel, Barkov, MacKinnon, Draisaitl all had serious ups and downs early in their careers and all became elite players by 22-23 at the latest.

You missed my point. I was one of the few that wanted Carlsson over Fantilli, but I'm also one of the few (or maybe the only one) who didn't want Carlsson in the NHL this year. I do go overhyping Carlsson.

Since you said nothing can be proven, then you can't say if Carlsson would have developed faster than becoming elite at age 22-23.

Remember, Verbeek brought Carlsson aboard under a special program in the first half of the season so that Carlsson can be rarin' to go in the second half of the season, including back to backs.

Carlsson 2023-24
Game Set	GP	G	A	Pts	.	+/-	PPG
Total	40	9	14	23		-8	0.58
First 23 games	23	8	7	15		-5	0.65
Last 17 games	17	1	7	8		-3	0.47

First 23 games, from Oct 19 to Dec 21st. That was when Carlsson got injured. On Dec 21st, the Ducks have played a total of 32 games.

When Carlsson returned from injury, we noticed he played in back to back games on away games on Jan 15th and 16th. He has played in all 17 games in that game set with the Ducks until he got injured again.

Carlsson finally scored a goal again on Feb 29th. He did not score in his previous 22 games, which was on Dec 5th.

I guess the gamble that Carlsson will take off in the 2nd half and playing a full load isn't working out the way Verbeek was expecting.

 

[AngelDuck]

You missed my point. I was one of the few that wanted Carlsson over Fantilli, but I'm also one of the few (or maybe the only one) who didn't want Carlsson in the NHL this year. I do go overhyping Carlsson.

Since you said nothing can be proven, then you can't say if Carlsson would have developed faster than becoming elite at age 22-23.

Remember, Verbeek brought Carlsson aboard under a special program in the first half of the season so that Carlsson can be rarin' to go in the second half of the season, including back to backs.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]Carlsson 2023-24[/TH]
[TH][/TH]

[TH][/TH]

[TH][/TH]

[TH][/TH]

[TH][/TH]

[TH][/TH]

[TH][/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Game Set[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]Pts[/TD]
[TD].[/TD]
[TD]+/-[/TD]
[TD]PPG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]
[TD]40[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]-8[/TD]
[TD]0.58[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]First 23 games[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]-5[/TD]
[TD]0.65[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Last 17 games[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]-3[/TD]
[TD]0.47[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

First 23 games, from Oct 19 to Dec 21st. That was when Carlsson got injured. On Dec 21st, the Ducks have played a total of 32 games.

When Carlsson returned from injury, we noticed he played in back to back games on away games on Jan 15th and 16th. He has played in all 17 games in that game set with the Ducks until he got injured again.

Carlsson finally scored a goal again on Feb 29th. He did not score in his previous 22 games, which was on Dec 5th.

I guess the gamble that Carlsson will take off in the 2nd half and playing a full load isn't working out the way Verbeek was expecting.

None of this has anything to do with my post. Wow

 

[Hockey Duckie]

None of this has anything to do with my post. Wow

You brought up standard struggles, then say can't prove which one is better in staying out of the NHL for a year or start right away, and, afterwards, proceed to say he'll be elite at age 22-23. Yet, you can't comprehend when someone responds to each point? Do you just like reading your own stuff?

I gave you a split chart to show Verbeek's specialized program didn't work. Carlsson was better off coddled than being an everyday NHL'er. And this rookie struggle for Carlsson hit him at only game 17, which is far earlier than most high-end prospects, especially considering that Carlsson has been sat out/game mgmt throughout his early season. It's an actual breakdown of Carlsson's game with game mgmt and without. Yet, you can't see that despite someone else doing all the leg work for you? huh. A 22-game goal less streak is also a normal struggle for a high-end scoring forward? huh.

Without the game mgmt, Carlsson is under a 0.50 ppg rate and got injured... again. Remember, Verbeek's program for Carlsson was to be coddled at the beginning of the season so he can be a workhorse in the 2nd half of the season. It hasn't worked. That points to Carlsson probably should not have been in the NHL this season.

 

[Dessloch]

Whats the injury status and physical status/conditioning of Leo now?

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Whats the injury status and physical status/conditioning of Leo now?

He's the second half of a horse now, per the plan.

 

[Terry Yake]

wouldn't be surprised if he's shutdown for the season at this point

 

[Dessloch]

wouldn't be surprised if he's shutdown for the season at this point

But what happened after he came back from the knee injury? I am from Sweden and just followed the Ducks more casually since the games starts 04.00 AM here. Has he re-injured that knee or has anything else happened? Or is it just more the let him skip games like it was planned early season? My apologies for my ignorance on the subject!

 

[Ducks DVM]

But what happened after he came back from the knee injury? I am from Sweden and just followed the Ducks more casually since the games starts 04.00 AM here. Has he re-injured that knee or has anything else happened? Or is it just more the let him skip games like it was planned early season? My apologies for my ignorance on the subject!

At a season ticket holder event today, Verbeek says Carlsson has a concussion, is on track to return Thursday at Minnesota.

 

[Kalv]

At a season ticket holder event today, Verbeek says Carlsson has a concussion, is on track to return Thursday at Minnesota.

It's easier to say it now, but Leo should had stayed in Sweden. So much for "not rushing prospects". Feels like LaCombe should have spent some time in SD as well, albeit perhaps there're some agreements with NCAA guys

 

[Ducks DVM]

It's easier to say it now, but Leo should had stayed in Sweden. So much for "not rushing prospects". Feels like LaCombe should have spent some time in SD as well, albeit perhaps there're some agreements with NCAA guys

His deeds rarely match his words, unless you’re willing to jump through some huge rationalization hoops.

 

[Terry Yake]

It's easier to say it now, but Leo should had stayed in Sweden. So much for "not rushing prospects". Feels like LaCombe should have spent some time in SD as well, albeit perhaps there're some agreements with NCAA guys

agree that lacombe should've spent more time in SD, but i don't see how another year in sweden would've been beneficial for carlsson in any way. he's shown he's more than capable of playing at the NHL level

 

[Kalv]

agree that lacombe should've spent more time in SD, but i don't see how another year in sweden would've been beneficial for carlsson in any way. he's shown he's more than capable of playing at the NHL level

I think (speculate) he'd not have this much of bad injuries there and would be actually able to build up his body better for the NHL.

Surely he can hang, albeit his play has fallen in the 2nd part imo.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

It's easier to say it now, but Leo should had stayed in Sweden. So much for "not rushing prospects". Feels like LaCombe should have spent some time in SD as well, albeit perhaps there're some agreements with NCAA guys

Carlsson was set to be Orebro's 1C and they added Lekkerimaki in the off-season. Carlsson was playing wing in the SHL and this season would have been great for Carlsson to finally play 1C in the SHL. Orebro has taken great care of Carlsson's development to become the #2 pick in last year's draft. Instead of letting Orebro continue his development, this time at 1C, Verbeek thrusts Carlsson into a shit show just so he can try to shorten the rebuild.

I think Verbeek's run Carlsson down with the specialized mgmt program. There wasn't enough time for workout recovery with the odd schedule. I pointed out how there should be at least 4-5 days between games, but that's not how it went.

LaCombe gets a terrible rap. He's being judged upon as a top-pairing D as a rookie. That wasn't the original plan. He was supposed to play 2nd pairing with Gudas. After Drysdale fell to injury, the Ducks tried out Luneau and Vaak. LaCombe turned out to be the better alternative. After a while, he gets juggled around between 1RD, 1LD, 2LD, 3RD, and 3LD. Since then, Vaaks had finally developed in non-top pairing role, Minty was sheltered until the TDL, Lindstrom got picked up on waivers, and Zell got called up.

And when finally gets to be PP1QB, he get 2 assists. Then Zell gets called back up, Minty returns from injury. I think LaCombe is okay at the NHL level as a rookie.

 

[ZEBROA]

Ducks should put Carlsson with the best players and just play this season through. He should learn the most playing with the best. But dont rush him back.

 

[Boxscore]

Leo Carlsson is the last kid Ducks fans need to worry about. He's a beast... you already see the flashes.

 

[Hamilton Bulldogs]

Perry is who this team needs.

He'd be ashamed to see what the ducks have become. He played well for the Blackhawks (who are in the same stage as us) and would do the same here.

 

[F86puck]

Leo Carlsson is the last kid Ducks fans need to worry about. He's a beast... you already see the flashes.

I would tend to agree. OK he's not Bedard but he or Fantilli would be #1 in most draft years. As I've said, I would be torn between picking Leo or Adam. Regardless, I hope to see Leo in 82 games next season with maybe 70+ points. And a hat or two. The "flashes" you speak of become more consistent as the experience rises.

 

[Leonardo87]

Looked like a potential 1C to me last night. Deserved more than just one assist. Keep playing like that and the points shall come.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Leo is having a McTavish-esque rookie season but with worse face-off numbers. He shows better on the ice than Mac did, like he looks like much more of a creative, smart player, hinting at a much deeper well to be developed.

It's so weird that it was ever a thing that his skating was thought of as a hindrance, his skating and puck protection is one of his best weapons. I really dislike how often he passes rather than shoots, and he has an unfortunate habit of not executing on dekes or passes at the blue lines. These things seem coachable. Hopefully they're being coached.

Anyway, really exciting to have a player like this. Maybe he'll be the leader we need, once he's old enough to shave.

 

[lwvs84]

Leo is having a McTavish-esque rookie season but with worse face-off numbers. He shows better on the ice than Mac did, like he looks like much more of a creative, smart player, hinting at a much deeper well to be developed.

It's so weird that it was ever a thing that his skating was thought of as a hindrance, his skating and puck protection is one of his best weapons. I really dislike how often he passes rather than shoots, and he has an unfortunate habit of not executing on dekes or passes at the blue lines. These things seem coachable. Hopefully they're being coached.

Anyway, really exciting to have a player like this. Maybe he'll be the leader we need, once he's old enough to shave.

Didn't he play wing last season in Sweden? I wonder how much of his faceoff issues are that he's never really taken that many against bigger, stronger, faster men. Hopefully it's one of the things he works on during camp next season and if he's doing on ice training over the summer.

On a side note, how easy is it to improve at faceoffs? It seems like it's one of the "easier" (or less difficult) skills to improve, especially for a guy with good hands and size. Hopefully improved technique and growing more into his body will help next year.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Didn't he play wing last season in Sweden? I wonder how much of his faceoff issues are that he's never really taken that many against bigger, stronger, faster men. Hopefully it's one of the things he works on during camp next season and if he's doing on ice training over the summer.

On a side note, how easy is it to improve at faceoffs? It seems like it's one of the "easier" (or less difficult) skills to improve, especially for a guy with good hands and size. Hopefully improved technique and growing more into his body will help next year.

Dunno. Mac improved quite a bit year over year. He's supposedly a rink rat, so maybe that's part of it.

 

[GermanRocket7]

Didn't he play wing last season in Sweden? I wonder how much of his faceoff issues are that he's never really taken that many against bigger, stronger, faster men. Hopefully it's one of the things he works on during camp next season and if he's doing on ice training over the summer.

On a side note, how easy is it to improve at faceoffs? It seems like it's one of the "easier" (or less difficult) skills to improve, especially for a guy with good hands and size. Hopefully improved technique and growing more into his body will help next year.

I'd wager that you should be able to learn taking faceoffs much faster and easier, when you are as tall and quick-thinking as Leo is. The latter being a difference maker, because we all know you wouldn't be able to teach Nick Ritchie faceoffs. Well, maybe face-off ripping.

In all honesty, Leo has quick decision making skills and good hands along with the size. He should be really fine once he puts in some more muscle (read: 10 kilograms at least) and focuses on FOs in his daily routine. I actually expect him to become our best FO option some time down the road.

 

[Trojans86]

Didn't he play wing last season in Sweden? I wonder how much of his faceoff issues are that he's never really taken that many against bigger, stronger, faster men. Hopefully it's one of the things he works on during camp next season and if he's doing on ice training over the summer.

On a side note, how easy is it to improve at faceoffs? It seems like it's one of the "easier" (or less difficult) skills to improve, especially for a guy with good hands and size. Hopefully improved technique and growing more into his body will help next year.

Best faceoff guys are usually the older centers in the league indicating that is certainly a skill that keeps developing over the years with practice.