Leo Carlsson or Adam Fantilli?

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

I really don’t get this concern

They will prioritize winning over development. Arguably Cole Sillinger's development was hindered by getting NHL games too soon cause they needed an offensive center so badly for illustration.

 

[BB88]

They will prioritize winning over development. Arguably Cole Sillinger's development was hindered by getting NHL games too soon cause they needed an offensive center so badly for illustration.

What makes you think the same will happen with Fantilli?

They aren’t in all in window now but want to improve.
Fantilli is a superior prospect vs Sillinger, everyone have basically the entire year thought Fantilli will play in the NHL next season, Columbus can play him with a mix of Gaudreau, Johnson, Laine, Marchenko, Jenner to take pressure off of him. Fantilli doesn’t have to carry a line or try to be the player who drives the line.

He’s entering pretty ideal situation in reality given the linemates and the quality of the team he’s entering into given draft position.

Sillinger has absolutely nothing to do with Fantilli, it’s like comparing night and day, from where the team was, to what level prospects they are to their skill sets.

& you’d rather try developing players how Anaheim developed theirs last year? On a bottom team that was an utter tire fire, that’s how young top tier prospects should be develop instead of giving them quality players and quality veterans to show how things should be done?

 

[Fatass]

I guess who will have the better career depends on what’s valued most. Carlsson will be a 1C, who plays an effective (although subtle) 200 foot games. He will be in the Barkov mode. Not flashy, but very effective. Fantilli will fill perfectly a 2C role. He will look dynamic with the puck and take on physical battles. But there will be stretches in play where he’s not noticed because he stands out so much at other times.
Both guys are going to have really good careers and both are exactly the types of players teams can win with.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

What makes you think the same will happen with Fantilli?

They aren’t in all in window now but want to improve.
Fantilli is a superior prospect vs Sillinger, everyone have basically the entire year thought Fantilli will play in the NHL next season, Columbus can play him with a mix of Gaudreau, Johnson, Laine, Marchenko, Jenner to take pressure off of him. Fantilli doesn’t have to carry a line or try to be the player who drives the line.

He’s entering pretty ideal situation in reality given the linemates and the quality of the team he’s entering into given draft position.

Sillinger has absolutely nothing to do with Fantilli, it’s like comparing night and day, from where the team was, to what level prospects they are to their skill sets.

& you’d rather try developing players how Anaheim developed theirs last year? On a bottom team that was an utter tire fire, that’s how young top tier prospects should be develop instead of giving them quality players and quality veterans to show how things should be done?

The concern is they will do whatever they can to make him work in Columbus ASAP, even if it becomes clear he's not ready for the NHL or not ready for the responsibilities handed to him. Hence, there's a possibility he doesn't excel as expected from day one, his season goes sideways and they don't do what is best for his development long term. Sillinger is an example of exactly that seemingly happening, I'm not saying he's a Fantilli clone.

That's the concern, I can't predict the future and I'm not saying it's going to happen, merely it's a possible outcome given the stakes management is dealing with.

I don't really think it's that hard a premise to consider frankly...

 

[Peasy]

Fantilli reminds me a lot of Hall, so I gotta go with Carlsson. At this level, the player with the better hockey IQ typically wins out and thats Carlsson in this case.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I have seen Mackinnon vs Barkov comparisons. So if it plays out like that its a no brainer for me.

I don't love the Barkov comparison for Carlsson. Carlsson just feels like a more "pure" offensive player, with more dynamism and creativity, but not as good defensively. I see more of a Nick Backstrom / Evgeni Malkin hybrid in Carlsson - a good defense center, but he'll be more known for his offensive game IMO. But I think in terms of overall player caliber, Barkov feels like a fair comparison.

More importantly, while they do share a lot of similarities, I don't think Fantilli has MacKinnon's upside. Fantilli is a great skater, but he just doesn't have the same explosive power MacKinnon had. I think he's more like a Taylor Hall. Obviously a great skater and talented offensive player, but lacks the type of power that makes MacKinnon so uniquely effective.

And I'd take Barkov over Hall 11/10.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

The concern is they will do whatever they can to make him work in Columbus ASAP, even if it becomes clear he's not ready for the NHL or not ready for the responsibilities handed to him. Hence, there's a possibility he doesn't excel as expected from day one, his season goes sideways and they don't do what is best for his development long term. Sillinger is an example of exactly that seemingly happening, I'm not saying he's a Fantilli clone.

That's the concern, I can't predict the future and I'm not saying it's going to happen, merely it's a possible outcome given the stakes management is dealing with.

I don't really think it's that hard a premise to consider frankly...

You can't really compare Fantilli and Sillinger. Fantilli could have played in the NHL last year and fit in fine, because he already has an NHL toolset. Sillinger was much more raw (especially his skating) and there was no reason he needed to be in the NHL at 18.

 

[bert]

I don't love the Barkov comparison for Carlsson. Carlsson just feels like a more "pure" offensive player, with more dynamism and creativity, but not as good defensively. I see more of a Nick Backstrom / Evgeni Malkin hybrid in Carlsson - a good defense center, but he'll be more known for his offensive game IMO. But I think in terms of overall player caliber, Barkov feels like a fair comparison.

More importantly, while they do share a lot of similarities, I don't think Fantilli has MacKinnon's upside. Fantilli is a great skater, but he just doesn't have the same explosive power MacKinnon had. I think he's more like a Taylor Hall. Obviously a great skater and talented offensive player, but lacks the type of power that makes MacKinnon so uniquely effective.

And I'd take Barkov over Hall 11/10.

Fantilli plays center and is much more physical than Hall I see way more of a power game from him personally. He is also bigger, I dont know if Fantilli or Carlson have that type of upside but I know the style of player I prefer. I like a heavy hard game on the forcheck personally. I dont think you can go wrong with either by the sounds of it. Anyone claiming to know who will be better is probably lying to not only themselves but everyone else.

 

[BB88]

The concern is they will do whatever they can to make him work in Columbus ASAP, even if it becomes clear he's not ready for the NHL or not ready for the responsibilities handed to him. Hence, there's a possibility he doesn't excel as expected from day one, his season goes sideways and they don't do what is best for his development long term. Sillinger is an example of exactly that seemingly happening, I'm not saying he's a Fantilli clone.

That's the concern, I can't predict the future and I'm not saying it's going to happen, merely it's a possible outcome given the stakes management is dealing with.

I don't really think it's that hard a premise to consider frankly...

& you know that’s going to happen because of?


You could say that for every prospect and you should be concerned for Carlsson then, he got drafted by a team that reminds you from Buffalo 10 years ago.

 

[squashmaple]

The concern is they will do whatever they can to make him work in Columbus ASAP, even if it becomes clear he's not ready for the NHL or not ready for the responsibilities handed to him. Hence, there's a possibility he doesn't excel as expected from day one, his season goes sideways and they don't do what is best for his development long term. Sillinger is an example of exactly that seemingly happening, I'm not saying he's a Fantilli clone.

That's the concern, I can't predict the future and I'm not saying it's going to happen, merely it's a possible outcome given the stakes management is dealing with.

I don't really think it's that hard a premise to consider frankly...

Enough. Quit concern trolling. You're not even a Ducks fan from what I can tell. What do you possibly care about either of these players? Your team made the playoffs once in the past decade on the sheer will of Taylor Hall, so I guess you know all about worrying if top picks pan out. It certainly took Jack Hughes a while.

& you know that’s going to happen because of?


You could say that for every prospect and you should be concerned for Carlsson then, he got drafted by a team that reminds you from Buffalo 10 years ago.

And you, you stop feeding the Devils fan troll.

 

[ProfessorFink22]

& you know that’s going to happen because of?


You could say that for every prospect and you should be concerned for Carlsson then, he got drafted by a team that reminds you from Buffalo 10 years ago.

Just because we don't know it will happen, doesn't mean we can't be worried it might happen. Honestly, as a fellow CBJ fan, we as well as anyone should remember how easy it is to stunt a blue-chip prospect's development (I was pretty young in the 2000s, but I still remember fan-boying over Zherdev, Brule, Brassard, and Filatov when they got drafted (Voracek, too, even though he hit... What a sad day that trade was).

Fantilli is NOT a Picard or Brule, but there's 100% a chance that he gets put in over his head too soon and it stunts him in some way. Brassard looked really good as a young player, but never turned the corner to being a star. Sillinger looked good at 18, too... I think any CBJ fan would go back in time and not have had him in the league that year.

It's worth considering for any 18 year old, especially when some people are already writing Fantilli in as the saviour for our center ice problems and already as a top 6 center next year (I hope this doesn't happen)

 

[Ducks]

Didn't vote because I think it's too close to call. I wanted the Ducks to draft Fantilli because I thought he'd be the better fit for the roster we're building and I love his motor and the way he plays. The kid is exciting to watch every shift. He'll probably score more goals than Carlsson, but I do think Carlsson could have the longer career and stay healthier based on their playing styles. Carlsson's playmaking game is also extremely high level, so even if he's not putting up the goals he'll be putting up plenty of points and making whoever plays with him better.

 

[BB88]

Just because we don't know it will happen, doesn't mean we can't be worried it might happen. Honestly, as a fellow CBJ fan, we as well as anyone should remember how easy it is to stunt a blue-chip prospect's development (I was pretty young in the 2000s, but I still remember fan-boying over Zherdev, Brule, Brassard, and Filatov when they got drafted (Voracek, too, even though he hit... What a sad day that trade was).

Fantilli is NOT a Picard or Brule, but there's 100% a chance that he gets put in over his head too soon and it stunts him in some way. Brassard looked really good as a young player, but never turned the corner to being a star. Sillinger looked good at 18, too... I think any CBJ fan would go back in time and not have had him in the league that year.

It's worth considering for any 18 year old, especially when some people are already writing Fantilli in as the saviour for our center ice problems and already as a top 6 center next year (I hope this doesn't happen)

I mean that’s a concern for every prospect, so it’s about useless to mention specific with Fantilli

Fantilli is the best drafted prospect in Columbus franchise history with elite physical tools, he could still bust absolutely but so could literally anyone, like Carlsson

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Wow I give up, never thought I'd get such push back from Columbus fans for saying I think Fantilli will have a better career than Carlsson. I'm interested in prospects, not just Devils prospects, which is why I'm posting on HFBoards.com.

If you want a simple of illustration of how my hypothetical concern could play out and are annoyed by my bringing up Sillinger, what if Fantilli really is a winger at the next level (which the Black Book scouts believe) and Columbus keeps playing him at C cause they need him to be a center. That's prioritizing winning/team needs over his development, and maybe it gets hindered as a result.

If you are so sensitive about potential risks in prospect development you can't have a real conversation I'm just going to move on.

 

[stevo61]

Wow I give up, never thought I'd get such push back from Columbus fans for saying I think Fantilli will have a better career than Carlsson. I'm interested in prospects, not just Devils prospects, which is why I'm posting on HFBoards.com.

If you want a simple of illustration of how my hypothetical concern could play out and are annoyed by my bringing up Sillinger, what if Fantilli really is a winger at the next level (which the Black Book scouts believe) and Columbus keeps playing him at C cause they need him to be a center. That's prioritizing winning/team needs over his development, and maybe it gets hindered as a result.

If you are so sensitive about potential risks in prospect development you can't have a real conversation I'm just going to move on.

There are risks all around. Fact is we've seen Babcock have success with kids, Larsen was a rookie coach who probably just went with what Jarmo suggested with minimal pushback. I dont think we are too worried about Babcock being scared to say a player isnt ready. This team has also not put Johnson in a center position yet because they want him to get physically stronger so they havent really rushed much outside of Sillinger.

Columbus isnt a typical bottom dweller just like NJ wasnt when they sucked and grabbed Nemec. Fantilli can play in a 3rd line energy role with Texier or can play top 6 with some combo of guys like Gaudreau, Jenner, Johnson and Laine. Its not a bad place to be for a physically mature kid who can play already and Babcock will have many options to work with.

 

[BB88]

Wow I give up, never thought I'd get such push back from Columbus fans for saying I think Fantilli will have a better career than Carlsson. I'm interested in prospects, not just Devils prospects, which is why I'm posting on HFBoards.com.

If you want a simple of illustration of how my hypothetical concern could play out and are annoyed by my bringing up Sillinger, what if Fantilli really is a winger at the next level (which the Black Book scouts believe) and Columbus keeps playing him at C cause they need him to be a center. That's prioritizing winning/team needs over his development, and maybe it gets hindered as a result.

If you are so sensitive about potential risks in prospect development you can't have a real conversation I'm just going to move on.

Which of Matthews/Nylander/Marners development did Babcock ruin?
How has Columbus ruined their top prospects Johnsons or Jiriceks development?

Fantilli is million times the prospect Sillinger was, his physical tools are about as good as you can hope for from a draft prospect, his skating is superior to Sillingers.

Columbus as a team is in a very different place vs when Sillinger joined the team and Larsen is gone.

No prospect is safe or quaranteed but you are just creating a worst case scenario in your head and see nothing else

 

[majormajor]

There are risks all around. Fact is we've seen Babcock have success with kids, Larsen was a rookie coach who probably just went with what Jarmo suggested with minimal pushback. I dont think we are too worried about Babcock being scared to say a player isnt ready. This team has also not put Johnson in a center position yet because they want him to get physically stronger so they havent really rushed much outside of Sillinger.

Columbus isnt a typical bottom dweller just like NJ wasnt when they sucked and grabbed Nemec. Fantilli can play in a 3rd line energy role with Texier or can play top 6 with some combo of guys like Gaudreau, Jenner, Johnson and Laine. Its not a bad place to be for a physically mature kid who can play already and Babcock will have many options to work with.

Mike Babcock is the single reason why I don't have the same [legit] concerns that @Poppy Whoa Sonnet has. He's not going to play a kid if he's not playing the right way and not learning the right way. Fantilli is a much better physical package than Sillinger but if you had asked folks halfway through Sillinger's rookie season "what are the chances that Sillinger is absolutely useless in year 2 and the coaches/FO decide to play him through it in the NHL all year?" I don't know if we would have thought it much likely. Yet they did it, in my opinion at least, they screwed that kid up big time.

 

[carl jung]

Part of that is because he played in the adult Swedish league last year not the U20.

His game easily translates as an NHL center.

Furthermore , if anything, Fantilli projects more as winger.

 

[wetcoast]

Furthermore , if anything, Fantilli projects more as winger.

?

They both easily project as top line centers in the NHL or elite second line guys think lesser versions of Crosby/Malkin but still in the top 32 of league centers at the zenith of their careers.

 

[tomd]

I'm a Ducks fan and I did want Fantilli although I vacillated between the two almost daily. The one thing I noticed watching the World Championships (and posted on the Ducks board to this effect) was that Fantilli was noticeable on almost every one of his shifts (mostly due to forechecking and skating) but at the end of the game had no points to show for it. Carlsson was not nearly as noticeable shift to shift but ended with 1-2 points on the scoresheet. By the end of the tournament I had developed a ton of respect for Carlsson's game. I do see Carlsson as a more prototypical 1C in the NHL. I think Fantilli might be better suited to being a winger but time will tell.

Either way, both players should have long and successful careers.

 

[stevo61]

Mike Babcock is the single reason why I don't have the same [legit] concerns that @Poppy Whoa Sonnet has. He's not going to play a kid if he's not playing the right way and not learning the right way. Fantilli is a much better physical package than Sillinger but if you had asked folks halfway through Sillinger's rookie season "what are the chances that Sillinger is absolutely useless in year 2 and the coaches/FO decide to play him through it in the NHL all year?" I don't know if we would have thought it much likely. Yet they did it, in my opinion at least, they screwed that kid up big time.

I have some thoughts on the Sillinger situation but for the sake of not derailing what this thread is supposed to be Ill just say Sillinger and Columbus failed each other last year. I think moving forward its going to get better for both sides

 

[stevo61]

I'm a Ducks fan and I did want Fantilli although I vacillated between the two almost daily. The one thing I noticed watching the World Championships (and posted on the Ducks board to this effect) was that Fantilli was noticeable on almost every one of his shifts (mostly due to forechecking and skating) but at the end of the game had no points to show for it. Carlsson was not nearly as noticeable shift to shift but ended with 1-2 points on the scoresheet. By the end of the tournament I had developed a ton of respect for Carlsson's game. I do see Carlsson as a more prototypical 1C in the NHL. I think Fantilli might be better suited to being a winger but time will tell.

Either way, both players should have long and successful careers.

It was out of the norm to give a kid such a big role at a men's tournament but it probably really allowed any potential doubts or questions people had of Carlsson to be eased. He of course wasnt perfect and maybe a bit more passive than he normally is but he belonged and for a guy who went from the wing in the SHL to center at the Worlds thats more than fair. Fantilli had a different role but again its nice when you have a player that can and will adapt to whatever role you give him. He also improved as the tournament went on.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

My hunch is Fantilli.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Both should be great.

I voted Carlsson on a coin flip.

 

[Johnny Tomala]

I voted Fantilli. I hope Carlsson won't be a bust for Ducks.