News Article: Lebreton...UPDATE - Agreement made with NCC.

[Masked]

Think it's bullshit all you want, but it's your and every other drivers responsibility to obey the rules of the road. That includes posted speed limits.

For all the complaining about speed cameras and tickets, all people need to do to avoid a speeding ticket is to not speed.

Found the guy who does 100 in the left most lane on the Queensway because he's obeying the rules of the road.

 

[Micklebot]

Found the guy who does 100 in the left most lane on the Queensway because he's obeying the rules of the road.

I wish I could go 100 in the left lane this morning, backed up from Metcalf to the split going ~20 was not very fun.

 

[Relapsing]

Found the guy who does 100 in the left most lane on the Queensway because he's obeying the rules of the road.

Even I'm not that much of an idiot, staying in the left lane when I don't need to. But yeah, I stick to speed limits because fines are expensive af and I'd rather not waste my money incurring them. And if I did go over the limit and got caught, I'd know it was my dumbasses fault for making that choice in the first place.

I wish I could go 100 in the left lane this morning, backed up from Metcalf to the split going ~20 was not very fun.

Brutal. Maybe Dougie will fix it after he's done wasting a bajillion dollars on a Toronto tunnel

 

[Micklebot]

Even I'm not that much of an idiot, staying in the left lane when I don't need to. But yeah, I stick to speed limits because fines are expensive af and I'd rather not waste my money incurring them. And if I did go over the limit and got caught, I'd know it was my dumbasses fault for making that choice in the first place.


Brutal. Maybe Dougie will fix it after he's done wasting a bajillion dollars on a Toronto tunnel

To be fair, it was the result of several accidents this morning, though by the time I got to where they were, they'd already been cleared

 

[Relapsing]

To be fair, it was the result of several accidents this morning, though by the time I got to where they were, they'd already been cleared

Yikes. Hope it wasn't anything too bad.

Also, I get it's not really the right place, but holy hell that tunnel idea is insane. Even the early cost projections are outrageous. The province could pay for a new rink at lebreton tens of times over. It could pay for dozens of new LRT lines. Hell, we probably build a high speed rail corridor down half the eastern seaboard for less than Doug is going to cost the province for a 50km tunnel.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Yikes. Hope it wasn't anything too bad.

Also, I get it's not really the right place, but holy hell that tunnel idea is insane. Even the early cost projections are outrageous. The province could pay for a new rink at lebreton tens of times over. It could pay for dozens of new LRT lines. Hell, we probably build a high speed rail corridor down half the eastern seaboard for less than Doug is going to cost the province for a 50km tunnel.

This is the natural consequence of ~40% voter turnout which results in the province being run by absolute imbeciles.

 

[GCK]

Even I'm not that much of an idiot, staying in the left lane when I don't need to. But yeah, I stick to speed limits because fines are expensive af and I'd rather not waste my money incurring them. And if I did go over the limit and got caught, I'd know it was my dumbasses fault for making that choice in the first place.


Brutal. Maybe Dougie will fix it after he's done wasting a bajillion dollars on a Toronto tunnel

That Tunnel will be more like 10 billion, and it's necessary.

 

[Daffy]

Driving too slow is a lot more dangerous on highways, then driving "too fast."

 

[Relapsing]

That Tunnel will be more like 10 billion, and it's necessary.

Doubt.

That would end up at around what, $200 million per km of tunnel? This does not at all jive with the current costs of tunneling in Ontario, nor does it line up with recent per km costs of tunnels in other countries, be it motorway or rail/subway.

Hell, the 33km WestConnex tunnel system in Australia is projected to have cost anywhere from 20-45bn AUD (almost a 1:1 exchange btw).

Even the subway extensions in Toronto are now at around $700m per km.

10bn is a pipe dream for this pipe dream of a tunnel.

 

[Golden_Jet]

That Tunnel will be more like 10 billion, and it's necessary.

I’m thinking 25 -30+ billion, how much was Ottawa’s to go 2-3 km, plus construction costs have increased since then.

 

[BankStreetParade]

That Tunnel will be more like 10 billion, and it's necessary.

It's not necessary. They can divert the insane amount of commercial vehicle traffic to the 407, who are all heading to the mega distribution centers in Milton/Halton Hills anyway, and open up the 401 for commuters. This is probably the single most obtuse and costly way to address this problem.

 

[Micklebot]

It's not necessary. They can divert the insane amount of commercial vehicle traffic to the 407, who are all heading to the mega distribution centers in Milton/Halton Hills anyway, and open up the 401 for commuters. This is probably the single most obtuse and costly way to address this problem.

It's been suggested to subsidizing tolls for trucks using the 407 could reduce a lot of traffic, and that seems like a simple solution that if it doesn't work, you can easily reverse course on. Idk why that wouldn't be the first option they try.

 

[BankStreetParade]

It's been suggested to subsidizing tolls for trucks using the 407 could reduce a lot of traffic, and that seems like a simple solution that if it doesn't work, you can easily reverse course on. Idk why that wouldn't be the first option they try.

Because it doesn't line the pockets of DoFo's construction buddies with premium provincial cash?

 

[Relapsing]

Because it doesn't line the pockets of DoFo's construction buddies with premium provincial cash?

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why the feasibility study isn't about whether or not this project is viable: It's about how long the stupid thing should be.

Ford has already signaled it's a fait accompli: "The reason we're having a feasibility study is it's going to determine the length. If they're telling me, 30 kilometres is x, 40 kilometres is y, and 70 kilometres or 60 kilometres is another cost, let's take a look at it... But we're going to get the job done, mark my words."

 

[Stylizer1]

Think it's bullshit all you want, but it's your and every other drivers responsibility to obey the rules of the road. That includes posted speed limits.

For all the complaining about speed cameras and tickets, all people need to do to avoid a speeding ticket is to not speed.

You asked for examples and I gave you 3. It's pretty obvious this is a money grab whether you want to admit it or not.

 

[Stylizer1]

Think it's bullshit all you want, but it's your and every other drivers responsibility to obey the rules of the road. That includes posted speed limits.

For all the complaining about speed cameras and tickets, all people need to do to avoid a speeding ticket is to not speed.

Also, if they truly wanted to eliminate speeding they would make every speeding ticket $5000. They don't though, they determine a price that's just high enough that it doesn't disincentivize people not to speed. Same goes for most by law infractions and crimes. It's how the government makes money out side of taxes.

 

[Relapsing]

Also, if they truly wanted to eliminate speeding they would make every speeding ticket $5000. They don't though, they determine a price that's just high enough that it doesn't disincentivize people not to speed. Same goes for most by law infractions and crimes. It's how the government makes money out side of taxes.

Or you can just go the speed limit.

 

[Stylizer1]

Or you can just go the speed limit.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Also, if they truly wanted to eliminate speeding they would make every speeding ticket $5000. They don't though, they determine a price that's just high enough that it doesn't disincentivize people not to speed. Same goes for most by law infractions and crimes. It's how the government makes money out side of taxes.

That’s not how fines are determined.

They have to survive legal pressure tests; a punishment matches the crime sort of deal.

$5000 fines for 10-20 km over the limit would get dumped in court.

I know it’s du jour to think everything is the government out to get us, but common sense should still apply.

 

[milkbag]

Why stop at more speed cameras? Let's install even more types of cameras so we can have automated ticketing of jaywalking, littering, or precision-measurement calibrated cameras to see if your lawn is above the accepted bylaw length

 

[Stylizer1]

That’s not how fines are determined.

They have to survive legal pressure tests; a punishment matches the crime sort of deal.

$5000 fines for 10-20 km over the limit would get dumped in court.

I know it’s du jour to think everything is the government out to get us, but common sense should still apply.

If the goal was truly to stop speeding the courts would be in favor of it. Common sense only applies to the extent the government doesn't enact laws. If everyone speeded 50 km over every speed limit it would either tell the government the limits are too low or they have to increase the fines. Ford has already increased the speed limits on Provincial highways because everyone goes over them.

Why stop at more speed cameras? Let's install even more types of cameras so we can have automated ticketing of jaywalking, littering, or precision-measurement calibrated cameras to see if your lawn is above the accepted bylaw length

AI will accomplish that sooner or later.

 

[Relapsing]

Ford has already increased the speed limits on Provincial highways because everyone goes over them.

Thats at least not the stated reason the minister of transportation provided in the provinces new release about increasing speed limits on stretches of provincial highways:

“Most of Ontario’s highways were originally designed to safely accommodate speed limits of 110 km/h and the data from our changes in 2022 shows they do just that,” said Prabmeet Sarkaria, Minister of Transportation. “These evidence-based increases are a common-sense change to make life more convenient for Ontario drivers while bringing our highway speed limits in line with other Canadian provinces.”

Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca

 

[Stylizer1]

Thats at least not the stated reason the minister of transportation provided in the provinces new release about increasing speed limits on stretches of provincial highways:

“Most of Ontario’s highways were originally designed to safely accommodate speed limits of 110 km/h and the data from our changes in 2022 shows they do just that,” said Prabmeet Sarkaria, Minister of Transportation. “These evidence-based increases are a common-sense change to make life more convenient for Ontario drivers while bringing our highway speed limits in line with other Canadian provinces.”

Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca

You are basically proving my point. They were originally designed for higher speeds. People were using them at higher speeds. The government recognized this and raised the speed limit. They didn't come out and blatantly say it but thats what the data proves.

 

[Micklebot]

Also, if they truly wanted to eliminate speeding they would make every speeding ticket $5000. They don't though, they determine a price that's just high enough that it doesn't disincentivize people not to speed. Same goes for most by law infractions and crimes. It's how the government makes money out side of taxes.

The good news is we actually have people who research things like this, and the evidence shows that increasing the penalty is far less effective means of deterring a behaviour than increasing the certainty of being caught. So, if they really want to disincentivize people from speeding, they'd stay away from reading your posts on the subject and stick to the evidence.

 

[Relapsing]

You are basically proving my point. They were originally designed for higher speeds. People were using them at higher speeds. The government recognized this and raised the speed limit. They didn't come out and blatantly say it but thats what the data proves.

A false equivalency is just what I needed for my bingo card, cheers!