News Article: Lebreton...UPDATE - Agreement made with NCC.

[IpsoPostFacto]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1837499078638219390

add to that the NCC requirement that the land would be leased and it looks like Andlauer pressed his advantage right out of the gates.

To flog a dead horse, I note there was no public ranting, threats, or pouting.

 

[Masked]

Don’t know why some people really think there’ll be parking for all 18,000 people. I’ve not once gone to a game in Toronto/Montreal, or any other major city and thought to myself: you know what, I’d love to park right beside the stadium. Because by the way that parking usually goes for $50 a car

I've gone to a game in Montreal where I parked even closer than right beside the arena and I didn't pay $50.

 

[Cosmix]

They need to give easy access to Uber and taxi.
That’s a massive “miss” at CTC (I say miss but I’m sure it’s intentional to steer revenue)

How easy would it be to have someone drop you off near CTC and then Uber/taxi home? And lots of other permutations.

If it was easier to get out of CTC, I would have went to many more games over the years, particularly weeknights where I don’t tend to go at all if I’m working the next day

The team cannot stop someone from driving by and dropping someone off.

After all, the Freedom Canada folks not only drove by and stopped; they stayed there for weeks and our police force was completely "dumbfounded" by it all.

 

[Stylizer1]

It’s done. You’re beating a dead horse.

better late than never i guess.

 

[Cosmix]

Its unreal on game days, for concerts events and the farmers market. I dont want the box stores though, trying to make it a shopping district wasnt smart but the restaurants and bars are fun.


Keep the team in Kanata then. Train yards is essentially the suburbs just slightly closer to the core. brutal location.

It was always going to be Lebreton or Bayview. They want to be close to Gatineau the downtown core and thats where the two trains meet.

Happy they are buying the land. Frankly they should just be giving it to them.

"Free Land? Wow! I want some to hold hockey games there too.

I've gone to a game in Montreal where I parked even closer than right beside the arena and I didn't pay $50.

Did you get a tow?

 

[Golden_Jet]

They need to give easy access to Uber and taxi.
That’s a massive “miss” at CTC (I say miss but I’m sure it’s intentional to steer revenue)

There is a taxi lane right in front of the building, between parking lot and interlocking brick.

How easy would it be to have someone drop you off near CTC and then Uber/taxi home? And lots of other permutations.

I’ve been dropped of lots on the side of building along Palladium drives there’s a spot for 5-6 cars to stop and drop off.

 

[Stylizer1]

Its unreal on game days, for concerts events and the farmers market. I dont want the box stores though, trying to make it a shopping district wasnt smart but the restaurants and bars are fun.


Keep the team in Kanata then. Train yards is essentially the suburbs just slightly closer to the core. brutal location.

It was always going to be Lebreton or Bayview. They want to be close to Gatineau the downtown core and thats where the two trains meet.

Happy they are buying the land. Frankly they should just be giving it to them.

Sure game days in the summer. but what game days are going to be unreal at Lebreton mid summer? Concerts sure but every night? Landsdowne non game days are pretty drab.

 

[Cosmix]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1837499078638219390

add to that the NCC requirement that the land would be leased and it looks like Andlauer pressed his advantage right out of the gates.

To flog a dead horse, I note there was no public ranting, threats, or pouting.

Give the ranters and pouters time to get their shit together. There is still a lot of time for that to occur.

I understand where the NCC was coming from. As a semi-political governmental entity, they had to demonstrate that they were taking into account environmental issues, Algonquin issues, political issues, etc. Then the negotiations could occur.

Glad they have generally resolved the issues and agreed to sell the land at "fair market value", whatever that turns out to be.

 

[Cosmix]

Don’t know why some people really think there’ll be parking for all 18,000 people. I’ve not once gone to a game in Toronto/Montreal, or any other major city and thought to myself: you know what, I’d love to park right beside the stadium. Because by the way that parking usually goes for $50 a car

I don't see anyone suggesting that parking would be required for all 18,000 fans at an arena event. I was using some stats provided by planners when building new event venues. The 1 parking space per 3.5 attendees was their rule-of-thumb. It does not mean that all fans need parking. I suppose that about half of attendees (9,000) would walk or take mass transit to the events. The other half (about 9,000) would go via vehicle that would require parking.

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

The team cannot stop someone from driving by and dropping someone off.

After all, the Freedom Canada folks not only drove by and stopped; they stayed there for weeks and our police force was completely "dumbfounded" by it all.

There is a taxi lane right in front of the building, between parking lot and interlocking brick.


I’ve been dropped of lots on the side of building along Palladium drives there’s a spot for 5-6 cars to stop and drop off.

Yes, getting dropped off is easy. But not useful unless you have a way to get home. Getting picked up is the limiting factor.

I have never noticed a taxi lane after the game. Not disputing, just not something I’ve noticed.

Where they need is something like the airport. If there was a place to live up and be within a taxi in minutes. People would use it, and taxis would be happy for the business. Ubers (and pick-ups) can be incorporated too if there was a way for vehicles to quickly flow in and out like the airport

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yes, getting dropped off is easy. But not useful unless you have a way to get home. Getting picked up is the limiting factor.

I have never noticed a taxi lane after the game. Not disputing, just not something I’ve noticed.

Where they need is something like the airport. If there was a place to live up and be within a taxi in minutes. People would use it, and taxis would be happy for the business. Ubers (and pick-ups) can be incorporated too if there was a way for vehicles to quickly flow in and out like the airport

From the web page

Taxi pick-up service is available at Gate 1 of the Canadian Tire Centre. Phones linking you directly to the taxi company are located beside the exit doors at Gate 1.

Some are out front already when exit game.
However if you want to go to Stittville or Kanata, some don’t seem happy as they want a fare that’s going further.

 

[Masked]

Landsdowne non game days are pretty drab.

Just the way Glebites like it!

 

[PlayersLtd]

Give the ranters and pouters time to get their shit together. There is still a lot of time for that to occur.

I understand where the NCC was coming from. As a semi-political governmental entity, they had to demonstrate that they were taking into account environmental issues, Algonquin issues, political issues, etc. Then the negotiations could occur.

Glad they have generally resolved the issues and agreed to sell the land at "fair market value", whatever that turns out to be.

I suspect 'fair market value' is a bit misleading since the value of the land is going to be intrinsically linked to the cost of decontamination which as I understand it is still an unknown both in terms of scope and who's taking it on. I'd throw acquisition cost out the window, Andlauer could end up getting it for a song at the end of the day.

Here is how the optimist in me sees this the more I think about it. The Sens have just 'purchased' a parcel of land that the federal government has a massive stake in. We know the NCC isn't going to go halfway with Lebreton and through leases and land sales etc... they essentially have an unlimited budget to develop it into a model of sustainability that makes it a global icon. We're talking a gold standard master plan that goes up against anything out there in the world's most forward thinking cities.

For an example think of what the Highline did for the City of New York... That project singlehandedly put New York back on the map and will pay dividends for the next century. It gets written up in all kinds of publications and New York and the various authorities involved did an excellent job to leverage the good press and maximize the return on the project in general.

So, if the NCC is going global with Lebreton what's a little help in making sure the arena is the hallmark of the whole thing? Especially when the help could be conveniently baked into the decontamination or land transfer. It can also be concealed under the guise of the partnership, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I could think of 100 ways the NCC could pitch in in a way that manages the optics- they cover the cost of all public space around the arena for example, or all the infrastructure...

With such a massive opportunity and all sorts of global recognition at stake the City of Ottawa isn't going to sit idly by, they will do everything to hitch their trailer to it. It would be bad business to not get involved. Maybe the Province too.

So, the Sens have the opportunity to position themselves and the arena as a relatively affordable part of something absolutely massive with a lineup of drooling stakeholders looking to have their name stamped somewhere amongst it. It's a scenario where you could see the burden of the $1B price tag for the arena portion of the project creatively slashed to make sure it becomes a worthy centrepiece to everything else that will happen at Lebreton.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I suspect 'fair market value' is a bit misleading since the value of the land is going to be intrinsically linked to the cost of decontamination which as I understand it is still an unknown both in terms of scope and who's taking it on. I'd throw acquisition cost out the window, Andlauer could end up getting it for a song at the end of the day.

Here is how the optimist in me sees this the more I think about it. The Sens have just 'purchased' a parcel of land that the federal government has a massive stake in. We know the NCC isn't going to go halfway with Lebreton and through leases and land sales etc... they essentially have an unlimited budget to develop it into a model of sustainability that makes it a global icon. We're talking a gold standard master plan that goes up against anything out there in the world's most forward thinking cities.

For an example think of what the Highline did for the City of New York... That project singlehandedly put New York back on the map and will pay dividends for the next century. It gets written up in all kinds of publications and New York and the various authorities involved did an excellent job to leverage the good press and maximize the return on the project in general.

So, if the NCC is going global with Lebreton what's a little help in making sure the arena is the hallmark of the whole thing? Especially when the help could be conveniently baked into the decontamination or land transfer. It can also be concealed under the guise of the partnership, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I could think of 100 ways the NCC could pitch in in a way that manages the optics- they cover the cost of all public space around the arena for example, or all the infrastructure...

With such a massive opportunity and all sorts of global recognition at stake the City of Ottawa isn't going to sit idly by, they will do everything to hitch their trailer to it. It would be bad business to not get involved. Maybe the Province too.

So, the Sens have the opportunity to position themselves and the arena as a relatively affordable part of something absolutely massive with a lineup of drooling stakeholders looking to have their name stamped somewhere amongst it. It's a scenario where you could see the burden of the $1B price tag for the arena portion of the project creatively slashed to make sure it becomes a worthy centrepiece to everything else that will happen at Lebreton.

Leader and NCC in presser said if Sens do the cleanup, price will reflect that. If NCC does the cleanup, then price will be fair market value for that land.

They haven’t determined it yet.

 

[Cosmix]

Yes, getting dropped off is easy. But not useful unless you have a way to get home. Getting picked up is the limiting factor.

I have never noticed a taxi lane after the game. Not disputing, just not something I’ve noticed.

Where they need is something like the airport. If there was a place to live up and be within a taxi in minutes. People would use it, and taxis would be happy for the business. Ubers (and pick-ups) can be incorporated too if there was a way for vehicles to quickly flow in and out like the airport

Yes, pickup is not very good at the arena. It would be worse than the airport where there was a monopoly by the taxi company in collusion with the airport. I think an Uber could pick you up if you called it though.

Leader and NCC in presser said if Sens do the cleanup, price will reflect that. If NCC does the cleanup, then price will be fair market value for that land.

They haven’t determined it yet.

Did they say what the expected cleanup cost is estimated to be?

 

[PlayersLtd]

Leader and NCC in presser said if Sens do the cleanup, price will reflect that. If NCC does the cleanup, then price will be fair market value for that land.

They haven’t determined it yet.

For sure, fair market value minus the hole in the ground the Sens end up with to begin their project.

 

[Cosmix]

For sure, fair market value minus the hole in the ground the Sens end up with to begin their project.

Can the Senators, NCC, City, Province, Nation or Algonquin nation charge the entities that caused the contamination of the site (E.B. Eddy?) for the cleanup?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Did they say what the expected cleanup cost is estimated to be?

They didn’t.

If I had to guess, I’m thinking an opening for the 31/32 season, 7 years.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Can the Senators, NCC, City, Province, Nation or Algonquin nation charge the entities that caused the contamination of the site (E.B. Eddy?) for the cleanup?

Not EB EDDY/Domtar… there were various industrial situated on Lebreton Flats, and they are long gone and mostly forgotten…. The taxpayer will end up footing the bill for soil mitigation.

The ‘Ugly’ History of LeBreton Flats - Ottawa Life Magazine

Chaudiere falls in the early 1800s, with an empty Lebreton flats in the background. - Toronto Refere...

www.ottawalife.com

 

[Flamingo]

I hope that the space constraints influence the arena design and we end up with a lower bowl with a steeper pitch like the Bell Centre in Montreal.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I hope that the space constraints influence the arena design and we end up with a lower bowl with a steeper pitch like the Bell Centre in Montreal.

Hope not Montreal has a bigger first bowl, more rows of seats. which makes the upper bowls further from the ice, when I was there.
I’ve sat in upper and lower on Montreal, prefer Ottawa’s
They have mentioned they want seats even closer though on the new arena.

 

[IpsoPostFacto]

Give the ranters and pouters time to get their shit together. There is still a lot of time for that to occur.

I understand where the NCC was coming from. As a semi-political governmental entity, they had to demonstrate that they were taking into account environmental issues, Algonquin issues, political issues, etc. Then the negotiations could occur.

Glad they have generally resolved the issues and agreed to sell the land at "fair market value", whatever that turns out to be.

the ranters and pouters I was referring to was previous ownership. I thought the current group was very professional throughout - all sides.

Yes, NCC had some political hurdles etc., but the way everything was handled allowed a deal to happen. If the team, for instance, comes out swinging about the issues, it's makes it much more difficult for the NCC.

 

[JD1]

Hope not Montreal has a bigger first bowl, more rows of seats. which makes the upper bowls further from the ice, when I was there.
I’ve sat in upper and lower on Montreal, prefer Ottawa’s
They have mentioned they want seats even closer though on the new arena.

Ya I've been to the bell centre several times. Much prefer our existing building

 

[Masked]

I hope that the space constraints influence the arena design and we end up with a lower bowl with a steeper pitch like the Bell Centre in Montreal.

I'd be quite happy if they emulate the CTC. I've never had an issue with the sightlines anywhere in the building notwithstanding the occasional idiot who is on the stairs during the play.

The Bell Centre's concourses are ludicrously small from what I remember. But better to emulate the Bell Centre than Toronto's (basketball) arena.

 

[PlayersLtd]

Can the Senators, NCC, City, Province, Nation or Algonquin nation charge the entities that caused the contamination of the site (E.B. Eddy?) for the cleanup?

Just researched a bit and the polluter pays mantra is often enforced by the federal government but considering the NCC has been sitting on the land since the 60's (and contamination of the site has been a known issue since then) I would assume that ship has sailed.

The challenge would be compounded by the historical patchwork of polluters that existed over the entire site. On top of that, most if not all don't exist anymore, not many that I recognize anyway.

I don't see EB Eddy on the historical maps. Not sure if they operated on Lebreton proper but they don't show up anywhere on the "Former Industrial Sites" map and "Former Industrial Uses" table.

Interestingly, the company that used to occupy the spot where the stadium will be is the Okeefe Brewing Co. The stadium would also sit on former CP Rail land. Both are low impact polluters.

Most heavy polluters (gas stations, foundries and other metallurgical stuff) were concentrated north around the centre of Lebreton or toward the current war museum. The exception to that is a paint company which was near the NE corner of Preston and Albert, reasonably close to the arena site and a landfill to the west.

City of Ottawa used the specific area for snow dumping which introduces contaminants...

The good news for everyone is that the open aqueduct passed right by the arena site so any contaminants probably hitched a ride right into the Ottawa river and spread far and wide for more people to enjoy.

LINK: https://ncc-website-2.s3.amazonaws.com/documents/LeBreton-Flats-Plan-1997-EN.pdf