News Article: Lebreton project

[NorthCoast]

I read they gave the city 19 million, they then will lease the building for 4 million a year for 35 years. They will be in charge of the building and make money of every venue in the building. The city will give them 2 million a year in advertising.

So for two million a year they get the building the naming rights and any profits that can be made on the side. You might say that is better then owning it.

Yeah, It's so ridiculous that your probably right.

It does box the team in a bit though. Curious how they will deal with stadium improvements over time, or if Katz sells int he next 35 years...how will lease vs owning the building effect sale price, etc.

Honestly, for as much as Canadians talk about not supporting stadiums with public money, it's very hard for small markets to get a stadium without some public incentive (straight cash in Edm/que, under-valued land in Ott, olympics in Calgary...)

 

[Take a Bath Son]

Jeffrey Simpson was on 1310 Ottawa Today and had some interesting commentary:

Ottawa Today with Mark Sutcliffe - 1310 NEWS (11:34am)

Melnyk does not have the pockets nor the lenders to execute the deal and he's trying to squeeze ruddy.
Melnyk floated the idea of Trinity building the arena and him paying rent
At a meeting in August with Jim Watson, Ruddy and Melnyk were shouting at each other.
Melnyk has ZERO support from other NHL owners. They dislike him as much as ottawa fans and are aware that the problems here are a result of alienation and bad management. Further they see this as a bleed on their revenue stream
Melnyk may come out with the threat to move the team-something Simpson says "don't buy it, will never happen" and a total bluff.
Best option is for him to sell and have the new group negotiate with Ruddy.

The end is near for Eugene, one way or the other.

 

[IpsoPostFacto]

Jeffrey Simpson was on 1310 Ottawa Today and had some interesting commentary:

Ottawa Today with Mark Sutcliffe - 1310 NEWS (11:34am)

Melnyk does not have the pockets nor the lenders to execute the deal and he's trying to squeeze ruddy.
Melnyk floated the idea of Trinity building the arena and him paying rent
At a meeting in August with Jim Watson, Ruddy and Melnyk were shouting at each other.
Melnyk has ZERO support from other NHL owners. They dislike him as much as ottawa fans and are aware that the problems here are a result of alienation and bad management. Further they see this as a bleed on their revenue stream
Melnyk may come out with the threat to move the team-something Simpson says "don't buy it, will never happen" and a total bluff.
Best option is for him to sell and have the new group negotiate with Ruddy.

The end is near for Eugene, one way or the other.

huge if true.

I already clicked the Like button. Does anyone know how to hug a post?

 

[Wondercarrot]

Jeffrey Simpson was on 1310 Ottawa Today and had some interesting commentary:

Ottawa Today with Mark Sutcliffe - 1310 NEWS (11:34am)

Melnyk does not have the pockets nor the lenders to execute the deal and he's trying to squeeze ruddy.
Melnyk floated the idea of Trinity building the arena and him paying rent
At a meeting in August with Jim Watson, Ruddy and Melnyk were shouting at each other.
Melnyk has ZERO support from other NHL owners. They dislike him as much as ottawa fans and are aware that the problems here are a result of alienation and bad management. Further they see this as a bleed on their revenue stream
Melnyk may come out with the threat to move the team-something Simpson says "don't buy it, will never happen" and a total bluff.
Best option is for him to sell and have the new group negotiate with Ruddy.

The end is near for Eugene, one way or the other.

Yep, that all sounds exactly right.
There isn’t a soul out there who knows him who doesn’t despise Melnyk. From his employees, through to the other owners - he behaves like a lunatic at meetings, he’s abusive to staff, bald face lies through his teeth right to people’s faces when they all know he’s lying - I can’t wait for the book detailing the behind the scenes stories about all the shitty loser things he’s done and asked people to do.
A complete loser from top to bottom.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Jeffrey Simpson was on 1310 Ottawa Today and had some interesting commentary:

Ottawa Today with Mark Sutcliffe - 1310 NEWS (11:34am)

Melnyk does not have the pockets nor the lenders to execute the deal and he's trying to squeeze ruddy.
Melnyk floated the idea of Trinity building the arena and him paying rent
At a meeting in August with Jim Watson, Ruddy and Melnyk were shouting at each other.
Melnyk has ZERO support from other NHL owners. They dislike him as much as ottawa fans and are aware that the problems here are a result of alienation and bad management. Further they see this as a bleed on their revenue stream
Melnyk may come out with the threat to move the team-something Simpson says "don't buy it, will never happen" and a total bluff.
Best option is for him to sell and have the new group negotiate with Ruddy.

The end is near for Eugene, one way or the other.

Love it.

 

[armani]

Looks to me like the next two months are a big game of chicken between Ruddy and Melnyk. Melnyk is hoping Ruddy will cave in and make financial concessions vs see his proposal get binned by the NCC.

Maybe Melnyk has a plan B to sell/partner with Devcore should RDL die in January?

Plan A - Ruddy caves and RDL goes ahead. Arena gets built and Sens move.

Plan B - RDL dies and Melnyk partners with or sells to Devcore. Arena gets built and Sens move.

Plan C - Melnyk invests the 25-35 million he once quoted into CTC upgrades and the sens are a perennial cap-floor team.

Melnyk alone cannot decide on anything, it requires Ruddy's signature too.

DCDLS stands to benefit here as long as they don't have a change of heart wrt Lebreton, which is highly unlikely.

Either Melnyk and Ruddy come to an agreement where Melnyk co-signs what Ruddy has already signed wrt corp gov structure, or NCC may re-allocate the award of the bid to DCDLS.

For Ruddy, if he wants a piece of the pie, he may want to outright buy the Sens but that too appears unlikely given his sour relationship with Eugene. Both Ruddy and Eugene stand to lose here.

I see the impetus on DCDLS to convince Melnyk on a sale but there is likely no urgency in that from their end. They can wait 2 months, get awarded, and then decide what if any mods are required wrt a planned hockey arena (more likely to be built then not, with or without immediate Sens ownership).

If Melnyk is getting good advice, he needs to sell now. He has potential buyers that now include Trinity (cuz they stand to lose the bid in 2 months if no agreement with Melnyk), DCDLS (Desmarais had made an offer in the summer), the group that includes Hank Mews/Leeder/Alfie, and perhaps someone else from the real development business who wants a piece of the Lebreton pie.

The only thing holding back a Sens sale, when no agreement is likely between Ruddy and Melnyk, is Melnyk himself. It's foolish and self destructive, both Melnyk traits we have come to know in 2 decades.

 

[supsens]

Jeffrey Simpson was on 1310 Ottawa Today and had some interesting commentary:

Ottawa Today with Mark Sutcliffe - 1310 NEWS (11:34am)

Melnyk does not have the pockets nor the lenders to execute the deal and he's trying to squeeze ruddy.
Melnyk floated the idea of Trinity building the arena and him paying rent
At a meeting in August with Jim Watson, Ruddy and Melnyk were shouting at each other.
Melnyk has ZERO support from other NHL owners. They dislike him as much as ottawa fans and are aware that the problems here are a result of alienation and bad management. Further they see this as a bleed on their revenue stream
Melnyk may come out with the threat to move the team-something Simpson says "don't buy it, will never happen" and a total bluff.
Best option is for him to sell and have the new group negotiate with Ruddy.

The end is near for Eugene, one way or the other.

A lot of the money teams like the poor teams keeping the cap down. The end? He has a rink and a team. I doubt its the end

 

[JD1]

It strikes me as incredible that you didn't consider this first.

actually I've thought this for a long time....I didn't want to be the one that put it out there....now step back from that and think about what I have said...on its own merit, the Sens piece doesn't make sense to me...you see how those two things go together? and the thing is ...so Eugene maybe thinks he can lean on everyone, so now he can't, now it doesn't make sense...swap eugene for Aflie supposing Alfie was a billionaire....it still doesn't make sense unless one or both the city and ruddy give more than they may be able to

 

[Gil Gunderson]

A lot of the money teams like the poor teams keeping the cap down. The end? He has a rink and a team. I doubt its the end

What’s he going to do with that rink and team? Tread water and continue with the fan boycott?

His Boro interviews and Ruszkowski radio interviews won’t suddenly start convincing fans.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

actually I've thought this for a long time....I didn't want to be the one that put it out there....now step back from that and think about what I have said...on its own merit, the Sens piece doesn't make sense to me...you see how those two things go together? and the thing is ...so Eugene maybe thinks he can lean on everyone, so now he can't, now it doesn't make sense...swap eugene for Aflie supposing Alfie was a billionaire....it still doesn't make sense unless one or both the city and ruddy give more than they may be able to

You are looking for specifics that no one here can provide.

You made the claim that the entire endeavour seems pointless because the numbers don't add up when you don't have the numbers.

All of us are only saying this is Melnyk trying to get something done that he thinks:

- He can pull off
- Will increase the value of the team
- Will allow him to raise ticket prices

The specifics don't change any of that. The specifics will affect the feasability of course but Melnyk is desperate because he has entirely run out of goodwill so he's trying everything he can.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Jeffrey Simpson was on 1310 Ottawa Today and had some interesting commentary:

Ottawa Today with Mark Sutcliffe - 1310 NEWS (11:34am)

Melnyk does not have the pockets nor the lenders to execute the deal and he's trying to squeeze ruddy.
Melnyk floated the idea of Trinity building the arena and him paying rent
At a meeting in August with Jim Watson, Ruddy and Melnyk were shouting at each other.
Melnyk has ZERO support from other NHL owners. They dislike him as much as ottawa fans and are aware that the problems here are a result of alienation and bad management. Further they see this as a bleed on their revenue stream
Melnyk may come out with the threat to move the team-something Simpson says "don't buy it, will never happen" and a total bluff.
Best option is for him to sell and have the new group negotiate with Ruddy.

The end is near for Eugene, one way or the other.

"This is totally predictable, the only question was when and how. The two men don't get on. Mr.Ruddy is somebody who lots of people in Ottawa know, he's well respected, he's a philanthropist, he gets developments done, and Eugene Melnyk, well, he doesn't live in Ottawa, he's alienated the business community and he's an extraordinarily difficult man to work with. And moreover, he doesn't have the pockets that you need to execute this project and I'm almost certain he can't find lenders to give him the kind of money that he needs."

"Gary Bettman has not yet been involved, although the mayor has briefed him and asked him to become involved."

 

[JD1]

I totally missed who owns the rink in Edmonton. just looked it up and assuming accurate:

total project @614m. rink, some fancy glass covered thingie in front of the rink to hang out in, and a connection to the transit system.
city paying 313m; retains ownership and will lease back to oilers.
team paying 166m. some in cash, but most is in the form of rent payments. promise to keep team in town for 35 years. The team retains all revenue from the operation of the building.

that actually looks like a pretty sweet deal if accurate, but I don't know much - if I did, I would buy the sens and mismanage it.

yes it is a very different deal than what's happening here....with virtually no risk taken on by the Katz group...is that kind of thing possible here? it doesn't seem like it? You think that katz would have walked without that kind of deal ? researching what went on there....its kind of the same thing as here but with a different outcome....public money, lots of it.

 

[Peptic Balcers]

Jeffrey Simpson was on 1310 Ottawa Today and had some interesting commentary:

Ottawa Today with Mark Sutcliffe - 1310 NEWS (11:34am)

Melnyk does not have the pockets nor the lenders to execute the deal and he's trying to squeeze ruddy.
Melnyk floated the idea of Trinity building the arena and him paying rent
At a meeting in August with Jim Watson, Ruddy and Melnyk were shouting at each other.
Melnyk has ZERO support from other NHL owners. They dislike him as much as ottawa fans and are aware that the problems here are a result of alienation and bad management. Further they see this as a bleed on their revenue stream
Melnyk may come out with the threat to move the team-something Simpson says "don't buy it, will never happen" and a total bluff.
Best option is for him to sell and have the new group negotiate with Ruddy.

The end is near for Eugene, one way or the other.

Is it happening? its happening, right????

HOLD ME

 

[IpsoPostFacto]

good god.

Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk suing partner over ‘failed’ downtown NHL arena bid

 

[GrantLemons]

"This is totally predictable, the only question was when and how. The two men don't get on. Mr.Ruddy is somebody who lots of people in Ottawa know, he's well respected, he's a philanthropist, he gets developments done, and Eugene Melnyk, well, he doesn't live in Ottawa, he's alienated the business community and he's an extraordinarily difficult man to work with. And moreover, he doesn't have the pockets that you need to execute this project and I'm almost certain he can't find lenders to give him the kind of money that he needs."

"Gary Bettman has not yet been involved, although the mayor has briefed him and asked him to become involved."

Thought that bit was really interesting. Really speaks to how badly the city wants Eugene Melnyk gone from this whole process, and from the Ottawa Senators.

You have to think the league will become involved between now and the January deadline. It's now at a critical mass, where the valuation of the team might take a dip after that deadline, which now makes it an issue that the league would have great interest in.

 

[Ser Grogu]

 

[GrantLemons]

Omg. This is officially spiralling out of control.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

lmao.

Another opportunity for Eugene to lose.

 

[JD1]

You are looking for specifics that no one here can provide.

You made the claim that the entire endeavour seems pointless because the numbers don't add up when you don't have the numbers.

All of us are only saying this is Melnyk trying to get something done that he thinks:

- He can pull off
- Will increase the value of the team
- Will allow him to raise ticket prices

The specifics don't change any of that. The specifics will affect the feasability of course but Melnyk is desperate because he has entirely run out of goodwill so he's trying everything he can.

right....now were at the point of making it real...and the specifics don't add in my view, another way of saying it is based on what we can see from a public consumption view, the specifics don't add

 

[stempniaksen]

Ayo Gary, come get your man.

 

[JD1]

Omg. This is officially spiralling out of control.

wow

 

[Qward]

It's fine, he's lost both his last two lawsuits

 

[DaveMatthew]

yes it is a very different deal than what's happening here....with virtually no risk taken on by the Katz group...is that kind of thing possible here? it doesn't seem like it? You think that katz would have walked without that kind of deal ? researching what went on there....its kind of the same thing as here but with a different outcome....public money, lots of it.

From what we've heard, it's actually very similar except that instead of public money, it'd be Trinity Development's or Devcore's money.

Both of these groups would have no problem building an arena and then "leasing" it to the Senators, who would operate the building. But in exchange, they wouldn't want to share the rest of the deal with Melnyk.

Their offer, essentially, is the up-front cost of a new building in exchange for the opportunity to develop the surrounding land. They knew the NCC would prefer a bid with an anchor attraction, which is why the Senators are in the mix.

And if you remember, that was essentially the crux of Devcore's bid. They'd build the arena and the Senators would be the primary tenant and operator, while they focused on real-estate.

The problem, which is now being reported through several interviews, is that he wants Ruddy to pay for the building, give it to him to own and operate, AND cut him in on the profits from the rest of the deal.

That's not happening.

It looks like Melnyk has two scenarios:

• Pay for the building himself and be cut in on the rest of the deal
• Have Ruddy pay for the building and be cut out of the rest of the deal

But he wants it all.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

right....now were at the point of making it real...and the specifics don't add in my view, another way of saying it is based on what we can see from a public consumption view, the specifics don't add

Maybe he was hoping to sue all along

 

[JD1]

good god.

Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk suing partner over ‘failed’ downtown NHL arena bid

i'm guessing we won't be solving our governance issues over the next 2 months