Post-Game Talk: Leafs win 4-3

[therealkoho]

Because the other day Keefe said Liljegren needs to play to a higher standard to stay in the lineup. Lilly has been one of our best dmen this season. Keefe's assessment is so far off and that's making people worried about his decision-making. If he said he sat Lilly to see what the new guys can do, that would be fine. But he actually thinks Lilly isn't playing well? That's concerning, especially when he's been blind to Holl's play.

I think and it's pretty clear at least to me that he believes Liljegren is capable of a lot more, and for the record whatever it matter so do I.

A few years back everyone said bring him up, but he just wasn't ready even though the talent was clearly there. He's up for good now so he's earned his place in the top 7, now he has to show them who he really is and has to be that guy consistently.

His play now has too many less than average shifts, taking into consideration his grade level. I really believe that they see him as a full time #3 who can capably play 1st pair minutes when required. Guys like that aren't supposed to get beat on the outside with any regularity, they also need to make quicker decisions with the puck, he sometimes overthinks it, and when he does he usually then forces something that renders a poor result.

Be patient, he still hasn't even played 200 NHL games as yet, why force him into things he's not ready for. We've seen that story far too often with Leafs Dmen through the past and have totally seen their careers stunted.

These vets that were added, were added to play, to take the pressure off the younger guys and to put the pressure on all the guys, to share knowledge and to make the Leafs as deep as theyve ever been on the blueline. It's a good thing that guys have to sit, it makes everyone better, hungrier so when their turn comes they go out and really get it and show they are good enough to keep it.

If say Brodie gets hurt enough to sit, don't you want to say, great no problems so and so will go in, not oh shite so and so is going in.

 

[ACC1224]

Keefe doesn't trust him. Keefe's job is to see more than what we see. During games, practices and studying tape. But maybe you are right and maybe Lillie can do the same job Holl can do...why bother risking it? Holl can already do that job.

Yep, hence the discussion. Is the Coach infallible or can he make mistakes?
People feel Lilli sitting is a mistake.

 

[therealkoho]

I don't need to make up shit chum, just go through cocaine bear's posts. He's either Justin Holl or McCabe banged his mom.

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Do you not think this guy was you know "trolling," I don't see how anybody can be taken seriously who could ever say McCabe would be 3rd on that list! See what I mean?

 

[m1ker]

my guess is Keefe is giving Holl the benefit of the doubt before he makes him the 7th

 

[therealkoho]

If you look at 1 goal wins, Keefe doesn't ice lilli at all in those situations. He's protected from them.

Go. Look for yourself.

ShiftChart - Hockey Shift Data Visualization

shiftchart.com

There is a reason why Keefe keeps turning to Holl specifically in those situations. Holl Muzzin/Holl Gio...Rielly, Lillie? They don't see the ice. They don't kill penalties.

Here's a 1 goal win vs Nashville earlier this season for example;
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Heck look at last night to see who Keefe turned too to protect the 1 goal lead;
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Again, Lilligren didn't see the ice for the final 5 minutes+
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So given the choice to ice the most defensively trusted defensemen...Holl >>> Lilli by lots. According to Keefe. And considering we can now close out 1 goal leads...you can place that success specifically on Holl.

Funny how the coach knows stuff like that

He's had most of these guys for a very long time, and when I look at the standings, it's partly the players and partly a coach who knows how to use them

 

[Drytoast]

Yep, hence the discussion. Is the Coach infallible or can he make mistakes?
People feel Lilli sitting is a mistake.

Based on our regular season success? I believe Keefe is making the correct choice. Holl is a good defenseman and succeeding in the role placed on him.

 

[Confucius]

+ / - is not an accurate way to evaluate a player? Hmmmm

Seth Jones, Timo Meier, Trevor Zegras, Brock Boeser, Ryan Oreilly, O E L, Johnny Gaudreau, Patrick Kane, Brayden Schenn, Jordan kyrou,, granted these guys aren’t super stars, but I hardly think they are amongst the top 25 Worst players in the NHL. Yet according to plus/minus, they are amongst worst 25

 

[therealkoho]

my guess is Keefe is giving Holl the benefit of the doubt before he makes him the 7th

All of them can be a #7, but not all of them can be a #1

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Yep, hence the discussion. Is the Coach infallible or can he make mistakes?
People feel Lilli sitting is a mistake.

To me when I was a coach I would never take out my best defender .. last night Lily was our BEST defender .. not 2nd best not 3rd best .. Lily was our BEST defender .. maybe best game I have seen him play in blue and white .. Holl was BY FAR da worst D man on da ice on either team .. coaches should always coach in best interests of da entire team not in individual players

 

[Larcos_Unal]

⁹Do you not think this guy was you know "trolling," I don't see how anybody can be taken seriously who could ever say McCabe would be 3rd on that list! See what I mean?

You are wrong, also I'd like to reiterate that I didn't make anything up...this guy thinks Dubas traded a 1st for a guy who should be in the press box.

 

[Drytoast]

You are wrong, also I'd like to reiterate that I didn't make anything up...this guy thinks Dubas traded a 1st for a guy who should be in the press box.

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McCabe closed out a very close game last night. Gustafsson is Jake Gardiner part 2. He slots in if Rielly gets injured otherwise he is a liability on this team.

 

[tmlms13]

+ / - is not an accurate way to evaluate a player? Hmmmm

Justin Holl has a better +/- than Mitch Marner this year.

Justin Holl's +/- in the Sheldon Keefe era.... 4 seasons +13, +16, +14, +15..... Combined +58, 3rd on the team, 1st amongst Defensemen.

I wonder how many people think Justin Holl is the best defensive defenseman on the Toronto Maple Leafs.

 

[Hellcat]

Put this game in the category that we did not deserve to win, if it was not for Sammy, wouldn't have got a point, let alone 2. it's odd to see another team get Leafed by the Leafs.

Leafed, adverb; to lose to a team that is better than you.

This team is utterly flawed. Until they turf Keefe this team will continue to under perform. The guy has all the hockey sense of a fake plant.

Since Feb 1st Toronto is MEH!

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Holl is a decent #5-6 dman who is being utilized higher up with more minutes than he should have. In the last few minutes he can be useful, like he is on the penalty kill, because he is FORCED to play within the limits of his abilities. It's outside of those that Holl has trouble. When he pinches and it's difficult for him to skate back. When he carries the puck for too long instead of distributing it quickly. His processing of the game when it's fast isn't very good. He is prone to taking too long to make decisions. He is also prone to really boneheaded plays and decisions.

Aside from that, he's a decent defenceman who does some things really well. He's got a good stick. He blocks shots. Lately he's been using his body a bit more. All good things. Keefe will start him in the playoffs for these reasons, agree with them or not.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Justin Holl has a better +/- than Mitch Marner this year.

Justin Holl's +/- in the Sheldon Keefe era.... 4 seasons +13, +16, +14, +15..... Combined +58, 3rd on the team, 1st amongst Defensemen.

I wonder how many people think Justin Holl is the best defensive defenseman on the Toronto Maple Leafs.

He’s good on aggregate but bad in high pressure individual situations. He’s fine playing the bulk of a series in a secondary shutdown role but I wouldn’t want him on the ice in the final minutes of a game 7.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Holl is a decent #5-6 dman who is being utilized higher up with more minutes than he should have. In the last few minutes he can be useful, like he is on the penalty kill, because he is FORCED to play within the limits of his abilities. It's outside of those that Holl has trouble. When he pinches and it's difficult for him to skate back. When he carries the puck for too long instead of distributing it quickly. His processing of the game when it's fast isn't very good. He is prone to taking too long to make decisions. He is also prone to really boneheaded plays and decisions.

Aside from that, he's a decent defenceman who does some things really well. He's got a good stick. He blocks shots. Lately he's been using his body a bit more. All good things. Keefe will start him in the playoffs for these reasons, agree with them or not.

yes all true but he does not move big men from a net front position which Schenn can do .. but give him credit he has been told he is fighting for a playoff spot and you can see he is trying to use his big body more .. neither of those 2 guys should be playing in a top 4 role EVER EVER EVER .. one of 2 of them will start alongside Gio in playoffs on 3rd pair though

 

[Zybalto]

Put this game in the category that we did not deserve to win, if it was not for Sammy, wouldn't have got a point, let alone 2. it's odd to see another team get Leafed by the Leafs.

Leafed, adverb; to lose to a team that is better than you.

This team is utterly flawed. Until they turf Keefe this team will continue to under perform. The guy has all the hockey sense of a fake plant.

Since Feb 1st Toronto is MEH!



View attachment 665565

The Leafs are 4th overall in the NHL this season and top 3 since Keefe took over the team despite being arguably being the team most affected by injury and the only team up there with questionable goaltending over his tenure. (The injuries and goaltending issues have a lot to with the playoffs as well)

In fact, looking at all NHL coaches with more than 225 games played, Keefe ranks as having the highest winning% of any coach...in history. (Again, goaltending has been meh which makes this crazy impressive)

If the Leafs stay top 5 with the injuries they have gone through this year, it would be a huge snub if he doesn't get an Adam's nomination IMO.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Sounds like overreaction on the Lilly front. Keefe reiterated that he sat to get some new guys in and will be playing a ton of hockey in the coming months...so it was good to find spots for rest.

 

[Drytoast]

Justin Holl has a better +/- than Mitch Marner this year.

Justin Holl's +/- in the Sheldon Keefe era.... 4 seasons +13, +16, +14, +15..... Combined +58, 3rd on the team, 1st amongst Defensemen.

I wonder how many people think Justin Holl is the best defensive defenseman on the Toronto Maple Leafs.

That's actually pretty damn amazing since he kills penalties and is usually leaned on to play tough minutes. I've already proven that he is ALWAYS called on to close out 1 goal games we are winning. So if we win a tight game like last night? That's partly due to Holl's ability to close out games. He's certainly not sheltered. But having said that, Gio is our best defensive defenseman. That guy is a beast. But Holl for a mere 2M is a steal considering the minutes he logs and responsibilities asked of him.

It amazes me how much hate he gets on these boards. It's almost as if our fan base hasn't a god damn clue.

 

[ACC1224]

That's actually pretty damn amazing since he kills penalties and is usually leaned on to play tough minutes. I've already proven that he is ALWAYS called on to close out 1 goal games we are winning. He's certainly not sheltered. Gio is our best defensive defenseman. That guy is a beast. But Holl for a mere 2M is a steal considering the minutes he logs and responsibilities asked of him.

Why is PK relevant?

 

[Drytoast]

Why is PK relevant?

Because you are playing shorthanded?! And there is a high risk you are going to get scored on? You are certainly more likely to get scored on than you will be getting a goal during those minutes.

 

[ACC1224]

Because you are playing shorthanded?! And there is a high risk you are going to get scored on? You are certainly more likely to get scored on than you will be getting a goal during those minutes.

Plus/minus only counts at even strength

 

[Drytoast]

Plus/minus only counts at even strength

I honestly didn't know that! Thanks

 

[willmma]

Put this game in the category that we did not deserve to win, if it was not for Sammy, wouldn't have got a point, let alone 2. it's odd to see another team get Leafed by the Leafs.

Leafed, adverb; to lose to a team that is better than you.

This team is utterly flawed. Until they turf Keefe this team will continue to under perform. The guy has all the hockey sense of a fake plant.

Since Feb 1st Toronto is MEH!

View attachment 665565

Sammy is part of the team. Him playing well and helping with the win is like any other player on the team playing well and helping with the win.

.615% hockey is better than meh. It is 6th best in the league.

 

[AllDay28]

Toronto has given up the 4th least amount of goals on the year and people are complaining about defense. Can't make this shit up. Never met a more entitled overrated fan base.