Post-Game Talk: Leafs win 4-3

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Great that it's crystal clear to you but that doesn't make it correct.
Many see Lilli as more than you do and feel he should be left in so he can gel with whomever.

I wouldn't classify it as outrage but the 'sheer amounts' could also mean that the majority is correct in their thinking that Lilli shouldn't be the one on the outside looking in.

He was only on the outside looking in for those guys getting reps which, again made the most sense.

There he was last night next to Rielly where he will be in the playoffs in some capacity or another. He's cleaned up the Dzone giveaways (although still has more than Gio/Holl/Brodie/McCabe is softer minutes) but I'd still like to see him get more physical around the net. He and Rielly make a fantastic transition pairing though so lets see how they do down the stretch.
 
Doubt it. Dubas doesn't trade for Schenn just to have Keefe then make the player a healthy scratch in the opening game of the playoffs.
All this speculation about Lily sitting out games in the playoffs scares the crap out of me. That is all.
And Holl gives us what it needs to handle the top 9, which should be the greater worry. Schenn doesn't have what it takes for that... so he will be good for maybe 12 minutes a night.

At that point, if we are that worried, then use him as a 7th defenseman and don't use ZAR... Assuming Knies is also not more impactful.
I like 7 Dmen myself. Give Schenn those 10-12 minutes or WE and give our big guns a few extra minutes, I like it!
 
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Engy is now playing for Lou and in their first line with Bowie Horvat. Just look for yourselves if you dont believe me? You already know who was playing on that line before him....? 3 or 4 straight games because barzal is out for life. The answer is: Matt Martin.

Not all players who happen to be on a 1st line are 1st line players. Some teams put plumbers with stars to for certain specialities.
 
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All this speculation about Lily sitting out games in the playoffs scares the crap out of me. That is all.

I like 7 Dmen myself. Give Schenn those 10-12 minutes or WE and give our big guns a few extra minutes, I like it!
It's definitely not my intention to endorse sitting Liljegren out. It is something I expect to happen for some of the games though.
 
I don't know that he's entirely regarded as being a depth option. Not to necessarily say that he plays in every game (assuming the team goes on enough of a run), but he has played on a Cup winner (x2). I view Gustafsson as being the team's depth addition on the blueline.
I guess we'll see with his usage as they move along. Depth, IMO is someone who isn't a regular.
Gustafsson won't see the ice again barring a few injuries.

It's definitely not my intention to endorse sitting Liljegren out. It is something I expect to happen for some of the games though.
I think this is the opinion many share.
 
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He was only on the outside looking in for those guys getting reps which, again made the most sense.

There he was last night next to Rielly where he will be in the playoffs in some capacity or another. He's cleaned up the Dzone giveaways (although still has more than Gio/Holl/Brodie/McCabe is softer minutes) but I'd still like to see him get more physical around the net. He and Rielly make a fantastic transition pairing though so lets see how they do down the stretch.
I think that is part of the issue, why just him? They could have rotated others out to give guys reps. Just sitting him gives the appearance that he is outside looking in. No one here can say with certainty that that's not the case or what makes sense.
 
Why are people so puzzled about Liljegren sitting a couple games while the new guys got a turn?

It's like it gave people a complex or something.
Because the other day Keefe said Liljegren needs to play to a higher standard to stay in the lineup. Lilly has been one of our best dmen this season. Keefe's assessment is so far off and that's making people worried about his decision-making. If he said he sat Lilly to see what the new guys can do, that would be fine. But he actually thinks Lilly isn't playing well? That's concerning, especially when he's been blind to Holl's play.
 
I mean he's right. This is predictable by the Leafs.
Ok, predictable. How does that change the team's overall positioning going into the playoffs? Not one bit! When we suck, yes sir, we suck balls. But, we only do it for a game, maybe two. And then, we squeak one out, and follow up with a dominant performance. Or something like that.

The point being, we focus on a lot of the stuff we want to be perfect. It ain't happening. This, by every measure, is a good team.

And, we've not yet seen the finished product.

Sorry if I'm reading too much into your comment, but unlike some I like our team. I'm ok with Kerfoot on the 4th line, if it helps. I'm ok with the debate over Liljegren/Holl/Schenn, I'm ok with a lot of things that initially look foolish. Out on a limb, I think Lafferty is going to surprise.

The same can be said of Keefe trying to find the best combinations at D. I'm not worried about today.

We are figuring it out. This is a good team. We need to find the balance. That isn't done in a day. I think we can beat Tampa, and I think our bottom six has the chance to grow more that the Bruin's bottom six. We are a championship level team. As much as we want to fret, we are. The only question everyone has is if we can do it when it counts.

And, because I'm a Leafs' fan, I choose to believe/hope/dream that the team I follow will figure it out.
 
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I didn't think it was your attention at all. I really hope we're all being paranoid and he plays every game, I can't overstate how pissed I'd be if Keefe doesn't play him like he should.
A young player absolutely can't acquire the needed experience without being given the opportunity to play in the big games. I'm likely fine with Liljegren not playing in every game though when considering the depth accumulated at the position. Still, I'm not at all interested in a repeat of the Sandin situation occurring with Liljegren (blocking his path from playing).
 
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Doubt it. Dubas doesn't trade for Schenn just to have Keefe then make the player a healthy scratch in the opening game of the playoffs.
He traded for Hutton and Noesen and didn't play them I believe. Didn't he also sit Holl at one point and Liljegren. Spezza healthy sctratch too
To sum up - Keefe is a moron who does things that make you scratch your head
 
I'd like to think you're right but I think they view Holl top 4, not 6/7.
IMO, Lili and Schenn are 6/7 in their minds.


Not sure. It's not unheard of to trade for depth at the deadline.
Can't have Holl killing da 3rd pair like last night .. he made Gio look like dog sh*t .. he just does not move fast enough or think quick enough at nhl level .. i am not saying schenn is any better on skills (he isn't) but it is imperative that Perry and Maroon don't take our net .. someone has to not be afraid to move them out and fight them straight up
 
We haven’t seen it yet, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Giordano - Schenn is a disaster. I think Gio needs someone that can skate better than Schenn paired with him.

If Schenn is out of the line-up, I think we see this:

McCabe - Brodie
Rielly - Liljegren
Giordano - Holl

If Schenn is in the line-up, I can see it being for Liljegren unfortunately even though Liljegren IMO should be in the line-up these playoffs:

McCabe - Brodie
Rielly - Schenn
Giordano - Holl

It's possible Gio Schenn doesn't work. I'm still never scratching Liljegren.
 
Bless Kerfoot’s heart.

He’s a good player but has ZERO chemistry with Matthews and Marner.
 
I don't think people realize how much they overrate the impact coaches have... but that's another story
Lineup decisions are huge. In a vacuum your statement is true but sitting Lil in favour of Loll together with line decisions have had a big impact on this team whether his fans like it or not.
 
Because the other day Keefe said Liljegren needs to play to a higher standard to stay in the lineup. Lilly has been one of our best dmen this season. Keefe's assessment is so far off and that's making people worried about his decision-making. If he said he sat Lilly to see what the new guys can do, that would be fine. But he actually thinks Lilly isn't playing well? That's concerning, especially when he's been blind to Holl's play.

Wrote this in another thread before last nights game but I think my point stands:

Holl 5v5 the last 2 weeks (and rank out of the 157 Dmen league-wide to play 80+ minutes):

Ozone starts: 40%
Shots Against/60: 21.39 (10th lowest out of 157)
xGA/60: 2.22 (34 lowest out of 157)
Hits/60: 8.43 (17th highest out of 157)
Blocked shots/60: 7.23 (11th highest out of 157)
Giveaways/60: 0.6 (21st fewest out of 157)
+4
65.85 Goal differential

Blind to Holl's play is what much of the board has been experiencing.

Holl has his ups and downs in his role but he's been good as of late and is ahead of Liljegren on the RHD depth chart ATM. Holl is next man out after Liljegren with Schenn waiting and Gus is only going in if we lose a LHD. If Liljegren goes in, he's not playing Holl's QoC and so pieces have to be moved all over in terms of usage as well. Liljegren certainly does things better than Holl but you do know Holl does certain things better than Liljegren too right?

Rielly - Liljegren
McCabe - Brodie
Gio - Holl
Schenn

Thats the playoff lineup and Schenn goes in for Liljegren or Holl based on who is less effective.
 
+ / - is not an accurate way to evaluate a player? Hmmmm
Jake Gardiner was not a great defenseman. But Babcock found a way to protect him for 3 seasons, stacking his +/-.

1678300874818.png
 
Wrote this in another thread before last nights game but I think my point stands:

Holl 5v5 the last 2 weeks (and rank out of the 157 Dmen league-wide to play 80+ minutes):

Ozone starts: 40%
Shots Against/60: 21.39 (10th lowest out of 157)
xGA/60: 2.22 (34 lowest out of 157)
Hits/60: 8.43 (17th highest out of 157)
Blocked shots/60: 7.23 (11th highest out of 157)
Giveaways/60: 0.6 (21st fewest out of 157)
+4
65.85 Goal differential

Blind to Holl's play is what much of the board has been experiencing.

Holl has his ups and downs in his role but he's been good as of late and is ahead of Liljegren on the RHD depth chart ATM. Holl is next man out after Liljegren with Schenn waiting and Gus is only going in if we lose a LHD. If Liljegren goes in, he's not playing Holl's QoC and so pieces have to be moved all over in terms of usage as well. Liljegren certainly does things better than Holl but you do know Holl does certain things better than Liljegren too right?

Rielly - Liljegren
McCabe - Brodie
Gio - Holl
Schenn

Thats the playoff lineup and Schenn goes in for Liljegren or Holl based on who is less effective.
It's gonna be Lilli who is the odd man out.

If you look at all of our 1 goal wins this season, you would be hard pressed to find any that do not have Holl playing the final 2 minutes. Lilli? He won't see the ice for the final 5 minutes.

So you can, by extension, give part responsibility to ALL OF OUR 1 GOAL WINS to Holl being defensively responsible enough to close those games out. Which many will not do on these boards. Holl gets all the hard minutes and responsibility and he doesn't score flashy goals like Marner so he gets nothing but hate.

If you are wanting to ice your most defensively sound line up, I don't see how Lilli sees the ice unless someone gets injured.
 
It's gonna be Lilli who is the odd man out.

If you look at all of our 1 goal wins this season, you would be hard pressed to find any that do not have Holl playing the final 2 minutes. Lilli? He won't see the ice for the final 5 minutes.

So you can, by extension, give part responsibility to ALL OF OUR 1 GOAL WINS to Holl being defensively responsible enough to close those games out. Which many will not do on these boards. Holl gets all the hard minutes and responsibility and he doesn't score flashy goals like Marner so he gets nothing but hate.

If you are wanting to ice your most defensively sound line up, I don't see how Lilli sees the ice unless someone gets injured.
6 players close out the games, not just one.
Holl has been fine for the most part in those situations but there is no reason to believe Lilli wouldn't excel as well in those situations given the chance.
 
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Not all players who happen to be on a 1st line are 1st line players. Some teams put plumbers with stars to for certain specialities.
But they are at that moment and the whole game long then: (first line players). Cause they play there with horvat etc. I've seen this happen and its life sire. Its a huge responsibility to play on the first line. Opening lineup and first second first puck drop on. Examples they are, showing example to the whole team from second one and to all people. Its not easy to make the opening first line. Been there only once my career. Never forget it.
 
6 players close out the games, not just one.
Holl has been fine for the most part in those situations but there is no reason to believe Lilli wouldn't excel as well in those situations given the chance.

If you look at 1 goal wins, Keefe doesn't ice lilli at all in those situations. He's protected from them.

Go. Look for yourself.

There is a reason why Keefe keeps turning to Holl specifically in those situations. Holl Muzzin/Holl Gio...Rielly, Lillie? They don't see the ice. They don't kill penalties.

Here's a 1 goal win vs Nashville earlier this season for example;
1678301664795.png


Heck look at last night to see who Keefe turned too to protect the 1 goal lead;
1678301767560.png

Again, Lilligren didn't see the ice for the final 5 minutes+
1678301803997.png


So given the choice to ice the most defensively trusted defensemen...Holl >>> Lilli by lots. According to Keefe. And considering we can now close out 1 goal leads...you can place that success specifically on Holl.
 
If you look at 1 goal wins, Keefe doesn't ice lilli at all in those situations. He's protected from them.

Go. Look for yourself.

There is a reason why Keefe keeps turning to Holl specifically in those situations. Holl Muzzin/Holl Gio...Rielly, Lillie? They don't see the ice. They don't kill penalties.

Here's a 1 goal win vs Nashville earlier this season for example;
View attachment 665477
I understand he's not being used in the situation. I'm saying that if he were used he could be successful. It can't be said with any certainty that he can't handle it when he's not had the opportunity.
 
Can't recall anybody ever saying anything like that, and lets face it there have been some pretty idiotic takes on this site. You really don't have to make them up to get your Holl hatred across my friend.
I don't need to make up shit chum, just go through cocaine bear's posts. He's either Justin Holl or McCabe banged his mom.

Screenshot 2023-02-28 200457.jpg
 
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I understand he's not being used in the situation. I'm saying that if he were used he could be successful. It can't be said with any certainty that he can't handle it when he's not had the opportunity.
Keefe doesn't trust him. Keefe's job is to see more than what we see. During games, practices and studying tape. But maybe you are right and maybe Lillie can do the same job Holl can do...why bother risking it? Holl can already do that job.
 
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