Friedman: Leafs willing to move 1st round pick.

[kevsh]

The way some Leafs fans talk about Samsonov I'm starting to think they don't actually watch the games or understand how to rate a goalie.

Don't take it from us Leafs fans, ask this to the 31 other GMs who passed on him when he went on waivers.
And there's a reason why, besides his horrific play: He was psychologically a mess. And the last thing any team wants is a starter with serious confidence issues.

Since he's been back his play has been better but the concern now is how many bad games is he away from those confidence issues coming back? I feel for the guy as much as anyone, not hating at all, just you can't have faith in you starter if he's in his own head.

But yes, the team around him hasn't been great at all but both Woll & Jones overall have put up solid performances & numbers regardless whereas Samsonov didn't.

 

[thusk]

trying and acquiring are two completely different things, I mean if they are willing to sell cheap but I get the feeling other teams can beat our offers. cause our assets are next to being pathetic at this point

amount contending team

Boston, florida, tampa, NYI already having less asset

NYR dont want to trade their 1st round pick

Carolina or colorado had biggest need than a D

philly will not be buyer for rental and dont think team like detroit, stl will probably bot be an active buyer for rental

Vancouver already spent a lot in Lindholm

so at the end whos will left amoynt team who will be morebserious about a #2 D?

 

[ForsbergForever]

Why would any playoff team want Markstrom? He's already proven to be wildly inconsistent if not flat out terrible...

 

[Evgeny Oliker]

Toronto needs to get both Tanev and Hanifin for a deal to make sense. Reilly can’t be their only really good PP defenseman. And yes they could use Tanev. Ideally Toronto trades Brodie plus back.

Then Toronto D would look something like this:
Reilly - McCabe
Hanifin - Tanev
Benoit - Lilljergen
Timmins
Lagesson


That’s decent…

 

[KapG]

Of course we are

 

[SEALBound]

I floated these two trades on the Pens board:

• Jake Guentzel ($2mil retained) to Edmonton for Broberg, conditional 1st, 3rd
• Broberg, Reilly Smith to Toronto for Bertuzzi, Robertson, conditional 1st.

Broberg steps in to solidify the defense and provides the Toronto backend with a young contract. Reilly Smith replaces a lackluster Tyler Bertuzzi. Both players of which need a new team to renew their spirits.

Penguins end up sending out two top 6 wings but get back 2 1sts, a young bottom 6 forward, and get to test run Tyler Bertuzzi to see if he could be a potential match with Crosby as a Guentzel replacement.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

If they were on the fence for a D, I wonder if they pull the trigger now that Reilly might be out for their entire Western road trip. They have 3 games in 4 days and they are already possibly short 1-2 defensemen before factoring in Reilly.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

amount contending team

Boston, florida, tampa, NYI already having less asset

NYR dont want to trade their 1st round pick

Carolina or colorado had biggest need than a D

philly will not be buyer for rental and dont think team like detroit, stl will probably bot be an active buyer for rental

Vancouver already spent a lot in Lindholm

so at the end whos will left amoynt team who will be morebserious about a #2 D?

ok so back to the only assets we have left. 2024 and 2026 1st. not alot to pry what we need. and still even if there are teams that have less than we do does not change the fact that we are broke our selves. our 1sts dont hold alot of value and we cant keep affording to spend everything. I dunno about you but Im not interested in another 10-15 years of being pathetic

 

[BuffLumber]

Tanev come on down!

 

[Rubi]

I bet Hanifin is looking more and more attraction to the Leafs right now.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

things are only going to get worse and worse after spending 1st rounders every year with zero progress. Leafs are barely a playoff team right now.

 

[ManofSteel55]

News flash! Contending team (as they see it) willing to sell futures for current help! Shocking development!

Why would any playoff team want Markstrom? He's already proven to be wildly inconsistent if not flat out terrible...

In the East he won't have to be dismantled by McDavid and Draisaitl. So that's a positive.

 

[Boondock]

They are talking about a package for both Hannafin and Tanev on 32 thoughts. No idea what that would be worth?

Tanev would be a 2nd plus a prospect

Hannafin would be 1st and a player or
1st prospect 4th like lindholm

So what.

Lilly. 1st. 3rd and a prospect?

The closest recent comp for a Hanafin deal would be Hampus Lindholm. He was an upcoming UFA dman. Both play a similar number of minutes and a similar role for their team (can be the anchor of a 2nd pairing or a complementary player on the #1 pairing) Hanafin is a little younger, and until last season has shown more offense than Lindholm. Lindholm was traded for 1st, 2nd, prospect and salary (player). I agree Tanev will go for around a 2nd plus prospect or a better single trade piece if a team has no 2nd (see Toronto). So from an assets point of view for both Hanafin and Tanev you would be looking at the equivalent value of 1st, 2 x 2nd, 2 x prospect, player to help balance cap. Looks like you're a little short on the return Lilly, 1st and Prospect for Hanafin and a 2nd + prospect for Tanev.

 

[Boondock]

I think the cap issues are overblown by quite a lot.

Even with Matthews and Nylander signed the Leafs have, Muzzin, Murray, Klingberg, Brodie, Samsonov, Lilly all coming off the books that's a lot of money.

Then you get into the smaller contracts like Jones, Benoit and Gregor.

Then next year, Marner, Tavares, McCabe and Timmins expire that's another 23.1 million.

even with Matthews and Nylander signed Treliving is going to be able to reshape this roster.

With the cap estimated to go up to $87.5 next season the Leafs will have $22million in cap space next season with 10 players signed. Yes Muzzin, Murray, Klingberg will be off the books but they are all on LTIR and allow the Leafs to go over the cap by their contract amount, without them on the roster the team has about $15 million less to work with than they have this season.

Anyway, with 10 players signed and $22 million in cap space easy math states you have an average of $1.83 per player to make a 22 man roster. Most $1.83 million dollar players are filler, not difference makers. If you break that down and look at the team needs and try to build a better team with the available cap its a bit difficult.

1 - Getting good goal tending: most teams with good to elite goaltending are paying more than $3.5 for their starting goalie. So for a good starter and a solid back-up a team will need to invest $7-$8 minimum in goalies. A good starter is now about $6 plus a mill for a back up.

2 - Build defensive depth: Finding a top pairing partner for Reilly - $5-$6 million

3 - Improving the 2nd pairing: $4million

4 - improved bottom 6 depth: ???

Total cap Available: $22
Goalie: -$6
1st pair defender: -$5
2nd pair defender: -$4

Remaining cap to sign 8 players - $7million

I know there can be trades and other player movement but I can foresee a summer where the cap is an issue - to speak to your first sentence.

 

[Boondock]

exemple leafs trade 1st round, liljegren Bertuzzi ( trade in a 3rd team exemple for a 2nd) and niemela for hanifin and tanev extended... exemple 7,5M for hanifin and 3 M tanev... they are resign at the same cap hit of brodie and Bertuzzi cap hit...

your starting playoff with like
rielly-Tanev
Hanifin-Mccabe
Benoit-brodie

leafs team drastically changed and help to fix a lot of hole...

I don't see the value in that trade for the Flames. If they are trading Hanafin and Tanev (both with extensions - also unrealistic) it indicated a full rebuild so Bertuzzi's expiring contract is useless except to help Toronto so that would need to come with assets attached. A late 1st, Lilj (a 3rd pairing D on a contender) and a undersized D prospect that projects as a 3rd pairing D is not good value for 2 top 4 nhl defenders.

If Toronto wants to make a move to improve they may need to look the LTIR route. Trade with Philly for Walker but also take on Ellis. This would help improve the player going to Toronto because Toronto is taking on the negative asset and this will give the Leafs some LTIR room for next season since they are losing their LTIR nest egg this season (Muzzin, Murray and Klingberg).

 

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

They shouldn't trade their 2024 1st round pick because it's going to between 13 and 15.

There's talent there.

 

[Strangle]

The way some Leafs fans talk about Samsonov I'm starting to think they don't actually watch the games or understand how to rate a goalie.

I'm not saying Samsonov has been great and he did have a bad stretch but he's been a decent goalie who looks a lot worse on paper because Woll stood on his head until injured. You can't expect a goalie to play like Woll did when he was hot. The problem is still defense. Lots of lost puck battles, bad defensive zone giveaways, break aways given up, coverage blown etc etc.

And no, Im not saying Leafs is atrocious defensively but they are most nights somewhere between average and below average.

every team loses a lot of puck battles, have bad defensive zone coverage, make giveaways, give up breakaways and blow coverage.

That’s what the goalie is for.

Samsonov was the worst goalie in the league for about 20 games

 

[OVO16]

So are like 10 other teams, why is this a thread lmao?

You're stupid if you think the Leafs wouldn't consider trading the 1st rd pick. Friedman also said it has to be a the right deal and not some rental

Why is there even a discourse over this

 

[Leaf Fans]

They shouldn't trade their 2024 1st round pick because it's going to between 13 and 15.

There's talent there.

Maybe, but there is a lottery.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

So are like 10 other teams, why is this a thread lmao?

You're stupid if you think the Leafs wouldn't consider trading the 1st rd pick. Friedman also said it has to be a the right deal and not some rental

Why is there even a discourse over this

I doubt there are more than 2 or 3 teams willing to move their first currently. There will likely be more in March though.

 

[mydnyte]

real #2 cost alot more than Leafs have to offer, also Im sure most teams that would also have interest could beat the Leafs best offer. not unless Leafs start including their top prospects as well, and even then I dunno if its enough. Dubas over the years has gone balls to the wall buying. it was going to eventually catch up to us.

the bolded is such a waste of time ...anyone can beat any teams offer most of the time, but most deals are not a public auction
do you think teams couldnt beat 2 x 2nd's for Toews ...everyone knew Toews was a good defenseman with even more upside than he'd shown, but, he wasnt sold off to the highest bidder, and usually trades arent NHL wide offerings.

Why would any playoff team want Markstrom? He's already proven to be wildly inconsistent if not flat out terrible...

so was Bobrovski for the previous 3 seasons and up until last season's playoffs, he had lost the starters job more than once

 

[mydnyte]

I bet Hanifin is looking more and more attraction to the Leafs right now.

so is any top 4 mobile defender who can clear the puck out of his zone

 

[Arthur Morgan]

the bolded is such a waste of time ...anyone can beat any teams offer most of the time, but most deals are not a public auction
do you think teams couldnt beat 2 x 2nd's for Toews ...everyone knew Toews was a good defenseman with even more upside than he'd shown, but, he wasnt sold off to the highest bidder, and usually trades arent NHL wide offerings.


so was Bobrovski for the previous 3 seasons and up until last season's playoffs, he had lost the starters job more than once

except when we have no prospects or high picks left its pretty easy. and you would be a fool if you think GMs wouldnt let others know their offer isnt strong enough to beat current deals or would let others know a deal is close to being finished and get your offers in.

we have gone all in for years and its caught up to us. unless you want to give up on all our prospects for a few bandaid fixes that wont help at all. our team is beyond pathetic and buying is the biggest mistake we can do at this point

Towes is a bad example as well and only got a big value boost a couple years ago they also got 2x 2nds for him. pretty fair deal for what he was at the time

 

[Petes2424]

This is where we’re going to figure out what type of dmen, and what worth Treliving places on them. Think it’s a given the 1st is going for one.

 

[thusk]

except when we have no prospects or high picks left its pretty easy. and you would be a fool if you think GMs wouldnt let others know their offer isnt strong enough to beat current deals or would let others know a deal is close to being finished and get your offers in.

we have gone all in for years and its caught up to us. unless you want to give up on all our prospects for a few bandaid fixes that wont help at all. our team is beyond pathetic and buying is the biggest mistake we can do at this point

Towes is a bad example as well and only got a big value boost a couple years ago they also got 2x 2nds for him. pretty fair deal for what he was at the time

1-knies, cowan, minten, niemela, 2024 1st round pick, if they want to add hanifin they can

2- the only time leafs was looking like contender last 4 year was when Muzzin was healthy and was playing. The only serie he played completly was the best series leafs played last 20 years. Leafs absolutly need a kind of hanifin, they can keep every young playet but even if they keep all their pick and prospect for next 10 year, if they dont get a #2 dman, they will NEVER win anything.

If leafs want to have succes they need to upgrade their D