Post-Game Talk: Leafs take it 3-2!

[Puckstuff]

Ok soooo if a team lost 82 games in the shootout.
0-0 for 82 games

Are they 500? Or 0? Or 41 games below 500?

Can a goalie never let in a goal and be 0-82? Or are they now 0-41?

It’s a matter of technicality. 82 overtime losses is the same as 41-41 or the same points percentage as .500.

 

[Stephen]

I'll try one last time

If a team plays 3 games and wins 2. That means they won 2 games and lost 1. That means the won 1 game more than they lost. 1 game above 500

In that scenario they have 4 points in 3 games. Every point they have more than the games played is a game above 500.

Yes, each win earns 2 points but it also adds 1 game played. So the win only nets 1 new point above games played.

3 points ABOVE GAMES PLAYED is three wins.

Doesn't matter how we slice the numbers exactly, from an intuitive POV, picking up 2 points out of a possible 8 vs Arizona, Anaheim, San Jose and Montreal kind of put them in the dog house in a way that they need a lengthy winning streak to get back to par, whatever that serious contender run was supposed to feel like. The Philadelphia-Boston-Carolina sequence looked promising and then they fell flat again from VGK to the second period of Vancouver.

They also can't score, having scored more than 3 goals in only 2 games all season. So if a team built on offensive strength doesn't have it, doesn't have reliable healthy goaltending, elite defense, etc. what are we going to do other than tread water.

 

[Gary Nylund]

8 wins, 8 losses. Looks VERY accurate to me, for this team so far this season.

It is said that ignorance is bliss. I'm happy for you.

I'll try one last time

If a team plays 3 games and wins 2. That means they won 2 games and lost 1. That means the won 1 game more than they lost. 1 game above 500

In that scenario they have 4 points in 3 games. Every point they have more than the games played is a game above 500.

Yes, each win earns 2 points but it also adds 1 game played. So the win only nets 1 new point above games played.

3 points ABOVE GAMES PLAYED is three wins.

It's too bad being above .500 doesn't mean what it used to mean.

Take the bolded scenario for example. If the team won 2 games in shootouts and lost the 3rd in regulation then they're above .500 OK, but they're below .500 in regulation. Hell it's possible in this scenario that they haven't even scored a goal in regulation yet they're above .500.

These gimmick points have made the standings just a little bit less meaningful, for me anyway.

 

[ULF_55]

It is said that ignorance is bliss. I'm happy for you.


It's too bad being above .500 doesn't mean what it used to mean.

Take the bolded scenario for example. If the team won 2 games in shootouts and lost the 3rd in regulation then they're above .500 OK, but they're below .500 in regulation. Hell it's possible in this scenario that they haven't even scored a goal in regulation yet they're above .500.

These gimmick points have made the standings just a little bit less meaningful, for me anyway.

That's why the record points last year should come with a caveat.

 

[willmma]

Doesn't matter how we slice the numbers exactly, from an intuitive POV, picking up 2 points out of a possible 8 vs Arizona, Anaheim, San Jose and Montreal kind of put them in the dog house in a way that they need a lengthy winning streak to get back to par, whatever that serious contender run was supposed to feel like. The Philadelphia-Boston-Carolina sequence looked promising and then they fell flat again from VGK to the second period of Vancouver.

They also can't score, having scored more than 3 goals in only 2 games all season. So if a team built on offensive strength doesn't have it, doesn't have reliable healthy goaltending, elite defense, etc. what are we going to do other than tread water.

I'm not happy about their performance either. I wish we had a record like the Broons or better.

But as badly as we have been playing, we are second in the division. I'm happy we don't have records like the Flames, the Oil, or even the Bolts.

We did so playing 15 games with our 2nd and 4th goalies.

 

[Stephen]

I'm not happy about their performance either. I wish we had a record like the Broons or better.

But as badly as we have been playing, we are second in the division. I'm happy we don't have records like the Flames, the Oil, or even the Bolts.

We did so playing 15 games with our 2nd and 4th goalies.

It's actually kind of ironic that goaltending hasn't been a massive issue for the team despite the fact that injuries have taken out 3 of the top 4 goalies in the system. It's the scoring that has dried up, pace of play and catastrophic defensive turnovers that has been the issue.

 

[Gallagbi]

They also can't score, having scored more than 3 goals in only 2 games all season. So if a team built on offensive strength doesn't have it, doesn't have reliable healthy goaltending, elite defense, etc. what are we going to do other than tread water.

Maybe this team isnt as offensively focused as many want to believe? Theyre a top 10 defensive team with a bad third string goalie playing half the games currently (GA/G). Looking as expected stats their xGA 5on5 and xGA 5on4 are both top 5 on natural statstrick.

Then you look at the roster construction and the bottom 6 is very responsible defensively and the top line has historically been good defensively. When healthy, you have two pairs that could be labelled as shutdown (Holl, Brodie, Muzz, Gio)

We pick apart the mistakes and many of them this year have been easy to see, but they arent all that frequent and they arent really forced - so i cant see them continuing at this pace long term.

I also dont see any scenario where Matthews ends up with the ~10 ESG hes on pace for. All of our big 4 are well below their normal numbers playing on basically identical lines/situations.

 

[Gary Nylund]

That's why the record points last year should come with a caveat.

I agree completely.

LOL. Jesus. You're the one pretending that loser points, where the opposition gets double what we get, are something desirable. Willful ignorance at it's finest.

I humbly suggest that you work on your reading comprehension skills, or perhaps I should say, lack thereof.

I already explained to you that you don't get anything for losing. Read post #192 again, read it slowly and read it several times if that's what it takes, it's not that complicated.

 

[Gallagbi]

I agree completely.


I humbly suggest that you work on your reading comprehension skills, or perhaps I should say, lack thereof.

I already explained to you that you don't get anything for losing. Read post #192 again, read it slowly and read it several times if that's what it takes, it's not that complicated.

Personally, im less concerned with the SOL/OTL and take more issue with 3on3 and SOW boosting those win totals, but im a believer in ties having meaning.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

It is said that ignorance is bliss. I'm happy for you.


It's too bad being above .500 doesn't mean what it used to mean.

Take the bolded scenario for example. If the team won 2 games in shootouts and lost the 3rd in regulation then they're above .500 OK, but they're below .500 in regulation. Hell it's possible in this scenario that they haven't even scored a goal in regulation yet they're above .500.

These gimmick points have made the standings just a little bit less meaningful, for me anyway.

As I said above, isn't this all that matters? 25 teams behind them in the standings? They all play with the same rules right?

 

[Stephen]

Maybe this team isnt as offensively focused as many want to believe? Theyre a top 10 defensive team with a bad third string goalie playing half the games currently (GA/G). Looking as expected stats their xGA 5on5 and xGA 5on4 are both top 5 on natural statstrick.

Then you look at the roster construction and the bottom 6 is very responsible defensively and the top line has historically been good defensively. When healthy, you have two pairs that could be labelled as shutdown (Holl, Brodie, Muzz, Gio)

We pick apart the mistakes and many of them this year have been easy to see, but they arent all that frequent and they arent really forced - so i cant see them continuing at this pace long term.

I also dont see any scenario where Matthews ends up with the ~10 ESG hes on pace for. All of our big 4 are well below their normal numbers playing on basically identical lines/situations.

Point taken, but I don't know if agree with the notion that they're more intentionally defensive and low scoring by design. The personnel would suggest not, the puck management still points to wanting to dominate possession and a lot of the catastrophic defensive breakdowns have originated in the offensive zone resulting in odd man rushes against.

Matthews looks like he's about 3 goals off of a 50 goal pace over 16 games and 5 goals off of a 60 goal pace, and Bunting is 2 goals off of a 20 goal pace over 16 games, So that would account for 5-7 missing goals which would put us back into the Top 10. Are we protecting a 4th stringer to make that trade off? I dunno, you could make the argument but I don't know if I'd sign off.

 

[Stamkos4life]

LOL. Jesus. You're the one pretending that loser points, where the opposition gets double what we get, are something desirable. Willful ignorance at it's finest.

Yeah Gary has been slipping further and further into the deep end.

 

[Nineteen67]

Technically the loser point is a tie point. Even the old school system recorded ties. The extra point is from OT/SO wins, but that doesn’t mean a tie at the end of regulation is a loss.

On track to go 3-2-2 in the playoffs.

 

[Nineteen67]

I'm not happy about their performance either. I wish we had a record like the Broons or better.

But as badly as we have been playing, we are second in the division. I'm happy we don't have records like the Flames, the Oil, or even the Bolts.

We did so playing 15 games with our 2nd and 4th goalies.

Theyve had their back up out on LTIR and used their 3rd string. Never had to use the fourth.

 

[Gabriel426]

Not going to get into the points, points%, how many games over 500 debate.
But who the heck is our 3rd string goalie if Kally is our 4th?

 

[Obo]

Not going to get into the points, points%, how many games over 500 debate.
But who the heck is our 3rd string goalie if Kally is our 4th?

Woll, presumably.

 

[ULF_55]

You get 1 point for tying.

Just like in the old days when there were ties and no overtime.

2 points split between 2 teams ... 1 point each.

Today there is an extra point for winning the 3v3 game or the shootout.

Of course, I realize there are many who probably don't know the history of ties.

 

[Gabriel426]

Woll, presumably.

Woll is not better than Kally at this point.

 

[tp71]

Yeah well you're wrong. You DO get "loser points" in the NHL, every time you lose in OT. You choose to cover your ears and sing LA LA LA, but it's a fact. You get 2 points for winning, 0 points for losing, and 1 point for losing in OT. There is no such thing as a tie any more. I suggest you try to be less willfully ignorant of simple facts.

No you get a point for being tied after 60 minutes. The winning team gets a bonus point for winning in OT/SO. You don't get a point for losing. You get a point for being tied.

 

[Gallagbi]

Point taken, but I don't know if agree with the notion that they're more intentionally defensive and low scoring by design. The personnel would suggest not, the puck management still points to wanting to dominate possession and a lot of the catastrophic defensive breakdowns have originated in the offensive zone resulting in odd man rushes against.

Matthews looks like he's about 3 goals off of a 50 goal pace over 16 games and 5 goals off of a 60 goal pace, and Bunting is 2 goals off of a 20 goal pace over 16 games, So that would account for 5-7 missing goals which would put us back into the Top 10. Are we protecting a 4th stringer to make that trade off? I dunno, you could make the argument but I don't know if I'd sign off.

I dont think its a tradeoff, but we havent been a run and gun team for years and we arent built purely on offense. Weve been a solid two way team who gets a lot of scoring out of their top 6.

Matthews had 44 ESG last year, he has 2 this year. Overall, the big 4 is scoring about half as often as they did last year ESG. I cant see that continuing all year

 

[ACC1224]

LOL. Once again..........There are no ties in Hockey any more. You get 2 points for a win, and 1 point for an overtime LOSS. That's why there is a column called "OTL". You can try to spin it however you like, but that doesn't make it not the fact.

Perhaps there is some confusion on what the ‘L’ stands for? Acronyms aren’t for everyone, they can be tough to decipher

 

[tp71]

LOL. Once again..........There are no ties in Hockey any more. You get 2 points for a win, and 1 point for an overtime LOSS. That's why there is a column called "OTL". You can try to spin it however you like, but that doesn't make it not silly.

I will spin it that way because its correct. Both teams get a point for tying after 60 minutes. The winner gets the extra point for winning in OT/SO.

 

[TheDoldrums]

can everyone just refer to records by PT% and stfu. We're at .594, that's 2nd in the Atlantic, 5th in the East and 11th in the NHL.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yeah well you're wrong. You DO get "loser points" in the NHL, every time you lose in OT. You choose to cover your ears and sing LA LA LA, but it's a fact. You get 2 points for winning, 0 points for losing, and 1 point for losing in OT. There is no such thing as a tie any more. I suggest you try to be less willfully ignorant of simple facts.

Nope. Once you get to OT, you've already earned a point, it's not given to you for losing.

Several people have already explained this to you, if you don't understand this simple logic by now, you probably never will.

As I said above, isn't this all that matters? 25 teams behind them in the standings? They all play with the same rules right?


View attachment 607545

The teams haven't played the same number of games so looking at it like this doesn't make sense.

Sort by PTS%, it's the only way that makes sense and as of today, we are 11th overall.

This is the site I use, just click on the PTS% column.

2022-23 NHL Summary | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the Eastern, Western Conference and Playoff series Standings, Statistics, Leaders and more for the 2022-23 NHL season on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

 

[Zybalto]

It's arguments like these that are part of the reason why they should have never got rid of ties and made things even worse by having games decided by stuff that isn't real hockey.

If there was an option to roll back all the rules 40 years, sign me up.