Leafs starting line-up 24/25

[The Shadow]

Knies-Matthews-McMann
Domi-Nylander-Jarnkrok
Pacioretty-Tavares-Grebenkin
Reaves-Kampf-Marner

What? How does that make any sense?

 

[notDatsyuk]

lets see 5v5 pts by tavares at 5v5 since 2010

2010-2011 16 goal 22 assist
2011-2012 19 goal 29 assist
2013-2014 16 goal 21 assist
2014-2015 22 goal 25 assist
2015-2016 22 goal 23 assist
2016-2017 15 goal 21 assist
2017-2018 18 goal 21 assist
2018-2019 33 goal 27 assist
2019-2020 13 goal 16 assist ( 63 gm)
2020-2021 11 goal 19 assist (56 gm)
2021-2022 15 goal 24 assist
2022-2023 16 goal 21 assist
2023-2024 15 goal 20 assist

Decline is really a big word right hereq

Do you stalk me with your weird takes?

Yes, if you actually use your eyes for watching hockey instead of just for searching for very selective stats that, taken completely out of context, look like they support your view, you could see his decline.


Even playing mainly with a winger whose play and production have gone steading up the last few years, JT's stats are still going down, even according to your very limited criteria.

 

[thusk]

Do you stalk me with your weird takes?

Yes, if you actually use your eyes for watching hockey instead of just for searching for very selective stats that, taken completely out of context, look like they support your view, you could see his decline.


Even playing mainly with a winger whose play and production have gone steading up the last few years, JT's stats are still going down, even according to your very limited criteria.

so for you the only reason why jt scoring basically at the same rate than he did his entire carreer last 5 years is Nylander... hahaha let's me laught

Eye test is nothing else than an opinion because you're seeing just what you want to see. When the player still producing at the same rate whatever who he had been playing with except his 1st year he played in toronto with marner and his production explode, normally its a good sign than your eye test is probably wrong.

sure you own opinion alone is a better criteria than what jt done last 14 year concretely

But i know you need to tell every body is dump to try to convince yourself than Nylander is even better

 

[pdson]

That’s how I can see the line up starting with Dewar and Minten injured.

Not a huge fan of the idea of Nylander and Domi on the same line. Also not a big fan of Matthews and Marner playing together, I’d rather split those two up to help our depth scoring.

 

[Mess]

What? How does that make any sense?

Any player making a double digit salary/AAV should be able to carry their own line.

Ideally that player is a Centre because their key building block positions. So strength down the middle.

Leafs have 4 players in the top 12 highest paid so 1 player per line to balance the offense.

 

[conFABulator]

Any player making a double digit salary/AAV should be able to carry their own line.

Ideally that player is a Centre because their key building block positions. So strength down the middle.

Leafs have 4 players in the top 12 highest paid so 1 player per line to balance the offense.

I get that the core four should each be able to drive or carry a line, but I think that makes much sense across three lines.

There's only 48 minutes of ES time per game. How would you distribute those mlnutes across four line? How could it make sense to only give Matthews 12 ES minutes a night? How would it make sense to give any of these guys less than this?

 

[brucioloco]

Do you stalk me with your weird takes?

Yes, if you actually use your eyes for watching hockey instead of just for searching for very selective stats that, taken completely out of context, look like they support your view, you could see his decline.


Even playing mainly with a winger whose play and production have gone steading up the last few years, JT's stats are still going down, even according to your very limited criteria.

Of course he’s on the decline, he’s on the final year of his contract. Years one through 3 he was worth more than $11 million, worth $11 roughly for years 4 and 5 and worth less for the final couple of years. That’s called “normal” in the NHL if you haven’t noticed before.

Also it’s no longer that dipshit Dubas’s team anymore so stop thinking the over built offence is correct. Average point production for a second line C across the league is 60-65P not a PPG so Tavares is still bang on for a roll on that line. There’s a couple league wide who hit 80P but there’s a bunch who only get around 40-50P, like Bennett on the most recent cup winners for instance.

The biggest issue with the leafs is playoff time for a very simple reason and it’s not the talent of their players. It’s because the stars all play the same bloody positions. C and RW. During the season they dominate because the opposition has a generalized D to play against every team’s style, whereas in the playoffs they focus on the team they play in each round. Due to this the leafs have been weak because they’re easy to defend against using the same defensive system against each line that allows a massive focus on the same positions.

 

[brucioloco]

Any player making a double digit salary/AAV should be able to carry their own line.

Ideally that player is a Centre because their key building block positions. So strength down the middle.

Leafs have 4 players in the top 12 highest paid so 1 player per line to balance the offense.

Expecting a player to be at his prime level of talent at the end of his long term UFA contract is flat out lunacy.

Beginning of contract: worth more
Middle of contract: worth it bang on
End of contract: worth less

That’s every long term deal for a UFA league wide.

 

[Mess]

I get that the core four should each be able to drive or carry a line, but I think that makes much sense across three lines.

There's only 48 minutes of ES time per game. How would you distribute those mlnutes across four line? How could it make sense to only give Matthews 12 ES minutes a night? How would it make sense to give any of these guys less than this?

Idealistically you're correct, but Leafs current salary structure does not support that. However a player should be paid on the merits of their own contributions and not gifted playing time based on their allocated ice time to validate ones contract.

An aging JT no longer capable speed wise to hold a top 6 position at centre could be moved the left wing with less defensive responsibilities and the bench shortened to 3 offensive lines, assisting a transitioning Nylander to his centre roll, and assisting on face-offs and required.

Knies-Matthews-McMann
Tavares--Nylander-Jarnkrok
Pacioretty-Domi- Marner
Reaves-Kampf-Grebenkin

However this is still a transition year and perhaps after this next season is complete the Leafs will only invest top value in centres as line drivers and then secondary and support players like wingers will be priced correctly if they need to ride shotgun with elite goal scoring players earning their salaries.

Perhaps Leafs even move away from the badly flawed plan of 4 forwards consuming 1/2 a teams salary cap and re-invest it better into other key core team building positions, like a top pairing #1 Dman who will drive the defense core, which will also then address your TOI/g allocation concern as suggested, with a big minute munching Dman playing 25-30 minutes at game, while making double digit salary if required.

 

[conFABulator]

Idealistically you're correct, but Leafs current salary structure does not support that. However a player should be paid on the merits of their own contributions and not gifted playing time based on their allocated ice time to validate ones contract.

An aging JT no longer capable speed wise to hold a top 6 position at centre could be moved the left wing with less defensive responsibilities and the bench shortened to 3 offensive lines, assisting a transitioning Nylander to his centre roll, and assisting on face-offs and required.

Knies-Matthews-McMann
Tavares--Nylander-Jarnkrok
Pacioretty-Domi- Marner
Reaves-Kampf-Grebenkin

However this is still a transition year and perhaps after this next season is complete the Leafs will only invest top value in centres as line drivers and then secondary and support players like wingers will be priced correctly if they need to ride shotgun with elite goal scoring players earning their salaries.

Perhaps Leafs even move away from the badly flawed plan of 4 forwards consuming 1/2 a teams salary cap and re-invest it better into other key core team building positions, like a top pairing #1 Dman who will drive the defense core, which will also then address your TOI/g allocation concern as suggested, with a big minute munching Dman playing 25-30 minutes at game, while making double digit salary if required.

I don't agree with the lineup choices, but I am sure not everyone agrees with mine, but I do like that you now have them across three lines and not four.

I like the following:

Knies Matthews Domi
XXXXX Nylander Marner
Robertson Tavares McMann

...with XXXXX being Pacioretty, Holmberg, Jarnkrok, Cowan or Grebyenkin (possibly A. Nylander I suppose).

Our fourth line options include the guys listed above that do not get the spot on Willy's line plus Dewar, Lorentz, Reaves, Steeves, Minten, and Kampf. We can see why with the doeth we have we should consider moving Kampf and Jarnkrok.

 

[Mess]

I don't agree with the lineup choices, but I am sure not everyone agrees with mine, but I do like that you now have them across three lines and not four.

I like the following:

Knies Matthews Domi
XXXXX Nylander Marner
Robertson Tavares McMann

...with XXXXX being Pacioretty, Holmberg, Jarnkrok, Cowan or Grebyenkin (possibly A. Nylander I suppose).

Our fourth line options include the guys listed above that do not get the spot on Willy's line plus Dewar, Lorentz, Reaves, Steeves, Minten, and Kampf. We can see why with the doeth we have we should consider moving Kampf and Jarnkrok.

Nylander was seen centering Max Domi and Calle Jarnkrok during the Toronto Maple Leafs' practice earlier today. It's certainly a change from the norm as Nylander has generally patrolled the wing on John Tavares' line in the top-6.

Of course, it's just the beginning of training camp and everything can change on a whim. However, it's still a good sign of what's to come. Changes are on the horizon, and after 5 years of Keefe behind the bench, Craig Berube is looking to set the tone with his personal touch.

 

[ToneDog]

Nylander was seen centering Max Domi and Calle Jarnkrok during the Toronto Maple Leafs' practice earlier today. It's certainly a change from the norm as Nylander has generally patrolled the wing on John Tavares' line in the top-6.

View attachment 908421

Of course, it's just the beginning of training camp and everything can change on a whim. However, it's still a good sign of what's to come. Changes are on the horizon, and after 5 years of Keefe behind the bench, Craig Berube is looking to set the tone with his personal touch.

So they are going to play Marner with Matthews so Marner can go on a 120 point pace and in January they will cave to his demands of $12.5mx8. Great plan. Wonder if Shanny came up with it by himself or he had help from the guy who claimed "we are not here to sell jerseys".

 

[arso40]

So they are going to play Marner with Matthews so Marner can go on a 120 point pace and in January they will cave to his demands of $12.5mx8. Great plan. Wonder if Shanny came up with it by himself or he had help from the guy who claimed "we are not here to sell jerseys".

right!!! talk about not making any sense if you want him to prove his worth play him with players that help show that not with player(s)