Leafs starting line-up 24/25

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tmlfan98

No More Excuses #MarnerOut
Aug 13, 2012
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I understand that. I don't think either kid is ready for any extended role though. We have two goalies that have never combined for 82 games in a season. It's a risk point, if Murray is healthy he will garner interest. Isn't Lorentz the redundant piece that should have no problem clearing waivers?
I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree here. I don't think Murray is a high waiver claim risk, and I also just don't believe in carrying 3 goalies on a roster. No team in the league does it consistently (and rightfully so).

Murray may be the best goalie of the three currently.

Obviously, Woll has the most potential, but Murray has proven to be a great goalie over, his issue has been health.

If he is healthy and looks good in camp and pre-season, I'd carry three and let him play.

He is not an old man, he is 30 years old (same as Stolarz) and still looked good while battling injuries, would be curious how he looks if he is truly 100% healthy.
I refuse to believe that Leafs management is so stupid now that they are the only team in the league to allocate enough cap space to needlessly carry 3 goalies.
 

notbias

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Feb 16, 2017
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I refuse to believe that Leafs management is so stupid now that they are the only team in the league to allocate enough cap space to needlessly carry 3 goalies.

They signed Klingberg last year...

I am only advocating for them carrying three if Murray performs well, then make your decision on which two to carry.
 

tmlfan98

No More Excuses #MarnerOut
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They signed Klingberg last year...

I am only advocating for them carrying three if Murray performs well, then make your decision on which two to carry.
Intentionally allocating enough cap space to carry 3 goalies on your roster when no other team does is a different category of stupid than signing a bad 1 year 4M deal which ended up on LTIR anyways. Way worse deals get signed than that all the time, many with term too.
 

notbias

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Feb 16, 2017
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Intentionally allocating enough cap space to carry 3 goalies on your roster when no other team does is a different category of stupid than signing a bad 1 year 4M deal which ended up on LTIR anyways. Way worse deals get signed than that all the time, many with term too.

No other team signed Klingberg... the worst defender in the league who didn't provide much offense at 4.5 million is a far bigger waste of cap than carrying an 800k goalie for a month or so.

Carrying Reaves at any cap hit is a bigger waste.

There are bigger wastes on the team currently.

I'd honestly have rather not signed Stolarz if Murray is 100% healthy... he likely provides more value at that hit than Stolarz does at his.
 

tmlfan98

No More Excuses #MarnerOut
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I'd honestly have rather not signed Stolarz if Murray is 100% healthy... he likely provides more value at that hit than Stolarz does at his.
I agree with this point. In absence of a truly elite goaltender it's better to just go with as cheap a tandem as possible, because it's all just s*** you're throwing at the wall to see what sticks if you don't have a truly elite G. Also opens up more cap spending ability on the rest of the skater group.
 

diehardleafsfan9878

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Mar 9, 2015
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Nylander hockey IQ is not bad but Marner clearly having the the edge in that part of the game. It's maybe the only area where Marner having an edge over Nylander


he maybe play more lower than some winger but again certainly not morw than Marner. Nobody



you just sayvwhy he should not be an NHL center. You just can't cheating offensively like he' doing to try to anticipate aturnover to get a breakaway as center. When it's working t's great but when you're missing it, you gave up a opportunity to opposite team to hurt you. He's defending like a winger and playing 100% like a winger. Playing Nylander at C would just make leafs worst.
A wingers job is to get open for an outlet pass. Nylander blowing the zone creates this opening. He wouldn't be the outlet man playing center and would have no reason to be blowing the zone.
 

ULF_55

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Matthews - 3rd. in Selke votes 2023-2024, 14th. 2022-2023.
marner - 17th. in Selke votes 2023-2024, 3rd. in 2022-2023

So who is it?

Did marner get worse defensively?
Did Matthews get sympathy votes?
Where is Tavares?
 

notbias

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Feb 16, 2017
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Matthews - 3rd. in Selke votes 2023-2024, 14th. 2022-2023.
marner - 17th. in Selke votes 2023-2024, 3rd. in 2022-2023

So who is it?

Did marner get worse defensively?
Did Matthews get sympathy votes?
Where is Tavares?

I think most people agree that Marner wasn't good last year...

Yet he still produced better than everyone but Matthews on our team, and 11th best in the league, while also being good defensively.

Selke is normally the best defensive forward who scores a lot, and there is a lot of reputation around it too, it is not the best defensive forward, so his being injured and having a down year likely had a lot to do with it.
 

notDatsyuk

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1-the fact hes a winger doesn't mean his position should always be at blue line covering dman, it's just not how hockey working in any system.

2- pressuring dman, skating outside of defensive zone, 10 feet behind the d and completly out of position, came back in defensive zone at his spot, and doing it over and over again...It's pretty bad positionning and the number of time he's doing it in a season is phenomenal.

3-Positionning is reason #1 why Marner playing every hardest defensive situation and Nylander didn't. Why Marner always played toughest matchup than Nylander
1. - ii didn't say it should be, just that when that's his position he stays in his position well.

2 - obviously you watch a different game than I do.

3 - positioning has less to do with Marner playing "toughest matchups" than the fact that he plays with the best scorer in hockey.
 

notDatsyuk

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you just sayvwhy he should not be an NHL center. You just can't cheating offensively like he' doing to try to anticipate aturnover to get a breakaway as center. When it's working t's great but when you're missing it, you gave up a opportunity to opposite team to hurt you. He's defending like a winger and playing 100% like a winger. Playing Nylander at C would just make leafs worst.
I think you missed the point.

Nylander plays his position well. Playing as a winger he plays it better than any other on the team. He has also played centre more often, more recently, and against better competition than Marner. There is no good reason to assume he will suddenly forget how to play positional hockey just because he switches to his natural position.
 

conFABulator

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I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree here. I don't think Murray is a high waiver claim risk, and I also just don't believe in carrying 3 goalies on a roster. No team in the league does it consistently (and rightfully so).

I am always good to agree to disagree, thought I am not even sure I agree with myself.

I have no idea if Murray is a waiver claim risk. That has a lot to do with how he looks in camp and what needs other teams have. I really like the idea of having Murray around, I think he could have upside if healthy and I think we want him around Will and Stolarz.

IF he has a good camp and we worry we might lose him, I would much rather see Lorentz, Reaves, and possibly Timmins or Steeves exposed to waivers.
 

ULF_55

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I think most people agree that Marner wasn't good last year...

Yet he still produced better than everyone but Matthews on our team, and 11th best in the league, while also being good defensively.

Selke is normally the best defensive forward who scores a lot, and there is a lot of reputation around it too, it is not the best defensive forward, so his being injured and having a down year likely had a lot to do with it.

He was on pace to be 2nd. best offensively, but pace isn't linear.

Nylander after 73 games was on pace for 107 points.

Interestingly, that was the 9 games leading up to his migraine issues.
 

notbias

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He was on pace to be 2nd. best offensively, but pace isn't linear.

Nylander after 73 games was on pace for 107 points.

Interestingly, that was the 9 games leading up to his migraine issues.

Sure, let's never use pace.

Marner and Nylander had the same production in the playoffs, agreed?
 

Byron Bitz

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Apr 6, 2010
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Domi-Matthews-Marner
Knies-Tavares-Nylander
McMann-Holmberg-Robertson
Jarnkrok-Kampf-Reaves

Rielly-Tanev
McCabe-OEL
Benoit-Liljegren
 

The Masters

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Jun 30, 2018
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Knies-Matthews-Marner
Domi-JT-Nylander
Cowan-Kampf-Jarncrock
Mcmann-Holmberg-Dewar

Rielly-Tanev
Benoi-McCabe
OEL-Lily
 

Gabriel426

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So you're looking at that as more of a third line? That makes sense.
I like to think my lines actually have three 1B lines instead of having Line 1, 2 and 3.
At the end of the day, it will be the mins each lines play in any given games.
Like if AM and Domi are on fire that game, they play more. If MM is buzzing, that line will play more. Same with Willie, if he is dominating plays, his line will play more.

That’s one of the reason why Keefe’s system sucks is that he relies on the top 6 way too much even if they just don’t have it that night.
 
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conFABulator

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My lineup for this coming season is usually configured around icing the best team obviously, but I also think we need this to be a "develop and reload" on the fly season. We need to try to make a few things happen this year that will help us keep the window open longer and possibly opened wider.

Here is my (optimal, healthy and signed) lineup for this year.

Knies Matthews Domi
Holmberg Nylander Marner
Robertson Tavares McMann
Dewar Kampf Jarnkrok

...Cowan (for at least nine games), Grebenkin, Reaves, Minten will rotate in and out and get more opportunity as injuries hit. We can make it work and I would not be afraid of losing Reaves on waivers.

On D, it's

Rielly Tanev
OEL Liljegren
Benoit McCabe
Hakanpaa

...we have Timmins, Myers, Mermis, Rifai, Niemela, Kokkonen that could all get a look. Maybe even Webber or the guy who just came over from the German league.

In goal, I would be very happy with

Woll 42 games
Stolarz 34 games
Murray 6 games

I would love to have three rested, tested, and healthy goalies come playoffs.

This is a solid lineup that could win a President's Trophy, but just as importantly we are accomplishing a lot, or at least learning a lot about what we have and what we need to acquire.

(1) Our top line is making less than $20M next year. That seems valuable for depth reasons. Let Matthews, Domi and Knies develop into 100 goal top line year in and year out.

(2) We don't need to worry about a Future 2C because it turns out we had one on our roster. Any of Nylander, Marner or Holmberg emerging as a 2C would be a hugely positive addition to our makeup. I have all three of them on a second line together. A couple of strong defensive wingers might help Willy transition to C and he is my preferred answer. Marner playing for a contract and feeding fifty pucks to Nylander is a pretty strong second line too. Also, let's see if Holmberg can keep up, 50 points out of him would be very nice to see.

(3) An actual third line. This trio played well together last year. Let JT slide back to a couple fewer minutes every night and maybe some easier matchups. All three on this line could get 20 goals with decent minutes. That's part of this too. These three lines should be combining for 42 to 44 ES minutes per night, that leaves five or six for the fourth line. If we achieve this it certainly means we should not be spending $6M on the fourth line.

(4) Let Reilly play like a number one with Tanev at his side and let Liljegren play like a top four with OEL. Giving Lilly a chance to sink or swim with OEL seems like a good bet to take. The worst case is probably that he is fine and the upside is we have a young top four RD at a good number and a third pairing that has McCabe, Benoit and Hakanpaa on it. That would be a very solid top 7.

(5) Establish Woll as the 1A on a good to very good tandem. No drama, no controversy, no major injuries, no rushing the Marlies up, and no problem going to Murray who is better than what Jones gave us last year.

(6) Lot of chances for kids that we need to see and develop. Holmberg, Robertson, Kampf, Reaves, Jarnkrok, and Dewar should be feeling competition every day from Cowan, Grebenkin, Minten, and Steeves. These guys will step in when injuries hit and hopefully not in only fourth line minutes.

These things happening are how we become a better team from within. We need to try to make as much of this as we can happen.
 

Americanadian

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Sep 11, 2016
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McMann-JT-Jarnkrok deserves some run. They dominated in the small stretch they had together.

Domi-Matthews-Nylander
Knies-X-Marner
McMann-JT-Jarnkrok
Dewar-Kampf-Reaves/Holmberg
 

conFABulator

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Apr 11, 2021
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McMann-JT-Jarnkrok deserves some run. They dominated in the small stretch they had together.

Domi-Matthews-Nylander
Knies-X-Marner
McMann-JT-Jarnkrok
Dewar-Kampf-Reaves/Holmberg

You don't have Robertson in there and an X in a key spot. How do those two points factor in to an actual line up?
 

conFABulator

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Robertson is still not a member of the opening lineup until he signs. X is a variable. Either Holmberg, Minten or an acquisition.
Obviously, we are talking about the season they starts in a few weeks weeks because of your Robertson comment.

I don't know if it makes sense to project an opening line up for a game a few weeks from now with 2C X for player we might acquire. I think the point of this is, given the players currently in the organization who is your starting lineup.

I guess yours has Holmberg or Minten as 2C. I have had Holmberg as 2C in a few of mine, usually with Nylander.

I am also pretty confident that Robertson signs and that tidally bumps Jarnkrok down to the fourth line.
 

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