Leafs starting line-up 24/25

[notDatsyuk]

Let's look at 3rd line centers just in TO's division, from Boston, Fredrick and Geekie had 40 and 39 points, neither challenged 60%, from Florida the 3rd line center Lundell had 35 pts in 78 games, again nowhere close to 60%. This is as far as I'm going, Boston and Florida were 2 of the best teams in the NHL last year.

Where did you come by your bogus contention that 3rd line centers averaged .6 points per game.

NHL.com, using all teams instead of two.

 

[notDatsyuk]

TO's top 2 centers last year with 107 pts. and 65 pts. was top 5 in the NHL last year, JT while not anywhere near the player he was is still a quality #2 center.

TO's problem has been poor winger depth and a d that can't move the puck. Tanev doesn't address the lack of on ice offensive/puck moving IQ that TO's d needs. poor signing on every level.

Matty's 107 points was third , but JT's 65 was nowhere close to fifth.

 

[hobarth]

I believe Tanev has missed an average of nine games a year over the past five seasons. He was warrior the last playoff run for Dallas. That's not fragile, he does play hard though and we want that element. Also the impact he could have on Reilly's game should not be overlooked. He hasn't had a proper partner since Hainsey.

I never said OEL was exceptional offensively. I said he is good, very good and an upgrade. These two guys are replacing Brodie and Giordano who both played top six amount of games on Leafs D last year. Brodie played 78 games.

Add in McCabe, a full season of Benoit, and a healthier Liljegren and our D is looking pretty good. Is it the best? No. Is it better than last year? Yes.

Consider improved goaltending, no one can be as bad as Samsonov was last year, and we should see in improved PK and generally tighter ES D and we shave off 30 or 40 goals against.

It's better

Tanev is signed for 6 years, he'll be 40 when that contract expires. Tanev might have played lot's of games but how many were at peak performance, just playing games rather than healthy games isn't necessarily a good thing. Rielly was at his absolute peak during the Hainsey period, he could've done as well with even Lyb.

Is OEL an upgrade on Brodie, we'll see, Brodie was JT's dman equivalent, overpaid but not overtermed.

There's no way this team is better than last year, slightly different, yes.

TO needs upgrades on d, propping up a non #1 dman and expecting him to actually be a #1 makes no sense. Don't trade TO's core 4 for better d if TO's current #1 can be used in a package to get a real #1.

Woll's ability to not stay healthy is legendary and Stolarz is a 30 year old proven back up, no upside here, might actually be worse than TO's goalies of last year.

We might get better d this year but it's highly unlikely and TO doesn't need it for the regular season, scoring goals and defending is what is needed for the playoffs. Dallas was expected to go deep during the playoffs and then added Tanev and played him a lot, worked out well.

 

[hobarth]

NHL.com, using all teams instead of two.

Why not put a direct link to that instead of NHL.com, a URL.

I picked the 2 best teams in the regular season to prop up my statement, not just any 2 teams.

I'm telling you, the average 3rd line center doesn't get even get close to .5 points per game.

 

[hobarth]

Matty's 107 points was third , but JT's 65 was nowhere close to fifth.

So what's it close to, 1st. I was talking about their combined total points, why didn't you get that from my statement?

I'm thinking you have problems with facts, you make statements without any foundation, proof so I'm hoping you can actually prove me wrong with proof.

 

[hobarth]

I get it now, when I ask for the URL, I'm talking about the page/URL that actually states that average 3rd line centers get .6 pts per game not just NHL.com's URL. Such a page doesn't exist..

 

[notDatsyuk]

Why not put a direct link to that instead of NHL.com, a URL.

I picked the 2 best teams in the regular season to prop up my statement, not just any 2 teams.

I'm telling you, the average 3rd line center doesn't get even get close to .5 points per game.

You picked two teams that support your view.

So what's it close to, 1st. I was talking about their combined total points, why didn't you get that from my statement?

I'm thinking you have problems with facts, you make statements without any foundation, proof so I'm hoping you can actually prove me wrong with proof.

You certainly didn't say that you were combining their point totals. I just provided facts.

 

[hobarth]

You picked two teams that support your view.

You refuted my statement, I used a very credible line of reasoning, you said NHL.com supports your statement, prove it. I don't have 4 to 5 hours to prove what is obviously true.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I get it now, when I ask for the URL, I'm talking about the page/URL that actually states that average 3rd line centers get .6 pts per game not just NHL.com's URL. Such a page doesn't exist..

NHL.com is the website, and it very much does exist.

Who has trouble with facts?

 

[notDatsyuk]

You refuted my statement, I used a very credible line of reasoning, you said NHL.com supports your statement, prove it. I don't have 4 to 5 hours to prove what is obviously true.

You think cherry picking two teams is "a credible line if reasoning"?

I didn't bother refuting your statement beyond pointing out the the basis was weak. You haven't even tried to refute my statement.

 

[hobarth]

TO's top 2 centers last year with 107 pts. and 65 pts. was top 5 in the NHL last year, JT while not anywhere near the player he was is still a quality #2 center

You're right, for some unfathomable reason I thought reasonable people would understand what I was saying, guess I was wrong or maybe I'm not dealing with a reasonable person.

 

[notDatsyuk]

TO's top 2 centers last year with 107 pts. and 65 pts. was top 5 in the NHL last year, JT while not anywhere near the player he was is still a quality #2 center

You're right, for some unfathomable reason I thought reasonable people would understand what I was saying, guess I was wrong or maybe I'm not dealing with a reasonable person.

Yes, combining their points, which you did not say, puts them in a tie for fifth.

Yes, you have to include the third best point producer to make JT look good.

Instead of going on a rant, you could have just clarified.

 

[Puckstuff]

Knies - Matthews - Domi
McMann - Tavares - Marner
Robbie - Holmberg - Nylander
Dewar - Kampf - Jarnkrok

Rielly - Tanev
Benoit - McCabe
OEL - Liljegren

By the deadline trade Kampf + Jarnkrok for nothing or picks and then move real assets for a 2C/3C and move Holmberg to 4C.

Knies - Matthews - Domi
Robbie - Two-way C - Nylander
McMann - Tavares - Marner
Dewar - Holmberg - Reaves

 

[Leafs87]

I may be in the minority but I can’t wrap my head around any combination of what we have looking like a cup contending team….

 

[Fogelhund]

Yes, combining their points, which you did not say, puts them in a tie for fifth.

Yes, you have to include the third best point producer to make JT look good.

Instead of going on a rant, you could have just clarified.

I thought it was easy to understand to be honest. You are still using NHL.com’s stats, which lists nearly 300 C’s, many of which don’t play C, and treating the stats as if there are only 128 C’s instead of 300.

 

[conFABulator]

Tanev is signed for 6 years, he'll be 40 when that contract expires. Tanev might have played lot's of games but how many were at peak performance, just playing games rather than healthy games isn't necessarily a good thing. Rielly was at his absolute peak during the Hainsey period, he could've done as well with even Lyb.

Is OEL an upgrade on Brodie, we'll see, Brodie was JT's dman equivalent, overpaid but not overtermed.

There's no way this team is better than last year, slightly different, yes.

TO needs upgrades on d, propping up a non #1 dman and expecting him to actually be a #1 makes no sense. Don't trade TO's core 4 for better d if TO's current #1 can be used in a package to get a real #1.

Woll's ability to not stay healthy is legendary and Stolarz is a 30 year old proven back up, no upside here, might actually be worse than TO's goalies of last year.

We might get better d this year but it's highly unlikely and TO doesn't need it for the regular season, scoring goals and defending is what is needed for the playoffs. Dallas was expected to go deep during the playoffs and then added Tanev and played him a lot, worked out well.

Wow. So now you are saying (because I showed you Tanev is not fragile) that be is just not very good? How many games did be play well? Is that the position?

Well, Dallas traded a prospect and two high picks, one conditional for him. Do you think they watched him before they made this move? Maybe they should have called you because you obviously know more about his game than NHL scouts do.

They probably should have called you before they played him for 22+ minutes a night during their 19-game playoff run last year too. That was obviously a mistake. They almost went to the cup.

As for six years, that's cap management stuff. He either stays healthy and plays it out, sliding down the roster and perhaps a little over paid as a bottom pairing defenseman for a year or two ..while the cap is at $120M or he retires with LTIR. He gets paid and we don't get cap hit. We all know that.

Yes, OEL is a massive upgrade in what Tanev have us last year. It's actually Tanev that is the Brodie replacement....the Brodie that was healthy scratched in the playoffs last year while Tanev was playing 22 minutes a night in Dallas.

OEL is the massive upgrade on Giordano ZZ the 41 year old that hasn't signed anywhere yet.

Woll's injuries are not legendary status. They are unrelated to each other and could be bad luck or he could be fragile. Stolarz might have been one of the best Todd season signings last year..anywhere.

As for this team now being better than last year, how can you possibly say this. Bertuzzi being gone? He wasn't that good for us last year. His 21 goals will get picked up from within the lineup.

Is it Samsonov's departure that has you worried? Brodie? Gio? Were you a big Keefe believer?

What makes them worse exactly? I know you obviously like to piss on the home team and point out how they could be better. I agree they could be better, I also understand the cap and the competition. Florida, Tampa, and Boston all got worse. How did the Leafs get worse than the team that was near the top in league scoring, got 102 points, and had some of the worst goaltending in the league? How are they worse? Specifically.

 

[NJG]

If Grebyonkin / Cowan / Minten make the team, which I think they can and I hope they do.

Knies - Matthews - Marner
Grebyonkin - Tavares - Nylander
Cowan - Domi - A. Nylander / Jarnkrok
McMann - Minten - Reaves

Rielly - Tanev
Benoit - McCabe
OEL - Timmins / Hakanpaa

Woll - Stolarz

 

[notDatsyuk]

If Grebyonkin / Cowan / Minten make the team, which I think they can and I hope they do.

Knies - Matthews - Marner
Grebyonkin - Tavares - Nylander
Cowan - Domi - A. Nylander / Jarnkrok
McMann - Minten - Reaves

Rielly - Tanev
Benoit - McCabe
OEL - Timmins / Hakanpaa

Woll - Stolarz

Domi, not Marner, should be with Matthews.

Tavares should not be with Nylander, and preferably not at 2C.

 

[ULF_55]

Domi, not Marner, should be with Matthews.

Tavares should not be with Nylander, and preferably not at 2C.

Tavares is still their #2 center.

Want to see someone else steal that spot, but my want doesn't change anything.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Tavares is still their #2 center.

Want to see someone else steal that spot, but my want doesn't change anything.

I think he is close to past it.

I'd like to see Nylander get a real shot at 2C, but my like plus $5 will get you a cup of coffee.

 

[Gabriel426]

Knies-AM-Domi will and should be one line
Calle-JT-MM will be the other line
McMann-Holmberg-Willie will be the other line

Dewar-Kampf-Reaves as the forth line

Need to stop loading up the top two lines for points but rather start spreading the scoring out to three lines and get used to playoffs style hockey.

 

[LeafEgo]

Tavares is still their #2 center.

Want to see someone else steal that spot, but my want doesn't change anything.

If you had to wager, would you wager that JT is a better 2C than Willy at 2C?

Even still, I think primarily you want to push JT down to line 3 as it's the best way to spread talent while keeping the three big guns in the top 6.

 

[ULF_55]

If you had to wager, would you wager that JT is a better 2C than Willy at 2C?

Even still, I think primarily you want to push JT down to line 3 as it's the best way to spread talent while keeping the three big guns in the top 6.

I think Nylander and Tavares as centers would have to be two different line types.

Knies-Matthews-Domi
McMann-Nylander-marner
Holmberg-Tavares-Jarnkrok
Dewar-Kampf-Reaves/Robertson/?

I would not be surprised to see Cowan/Grebenkin breaking through, and Minten getting some trials.

Who would be a better 'center' in the classical sense, Tavares no doubt.

Not sure how many reps McMann has had a center in the NHL, but he was identified as a center.


Love to drop Dewar out of the line-up for Cowan, and Robertson and Reaves for Grebenkin.
But I'd push Holmberg down and move Cowan there.
Not sure this would work, but be interesting:
Cowan-Tavares-Grebenkin

 

[notDatsyuk]

Knies-AM-Domi will and should be one line
Calle-JT-MM will be the other line
McMann-Holmberg-Willie will be the other line

Dewar-Kampf-Reaves as the forth line

Need to stop loading up the top two lines for points but rather start spreading the scoring out to three lines and get used to playoffs style hockey.

Might be interesting to swap McMann and Jarnkrok - the three 'Swedes' together and McMann on the slower line.

 

[Roo]

My thoughts on lineup below, but who really knows. One thing I want to avoid is this idea that Tavares could be a 3c. Ok in the regular season, but when you want a real checking centre in the playoffs he doesn’t fit the bill. If we are shifting him it would be to Lw and move Domi to 2c.

Domi - Matthews - Nylander
Knies - Tavares - Marner
McMann - Holmberg - Cowan
Dewar - Kampf - Jarnkrok

Rielly - Tanev
OEL - McCabe
Benoit - Lil