Confirmed with Link: Leafs sign F Ryan Reaves (3 years, $1.3M AAV)

[Stephen]

The 4th line's been drowning. Players that fight often get the belt, just like the fighters over the past number of years did. It's more about respecting the action than the impact it has. Not sure what you think "nuhockey" is, but your representation of Dubas, his beliefs, and how he operated is flat out wrong.

It's still very early, and hopefully the team gels and figures things out more, but we've been pretty exclusively carried by our stars so far. There are legitimate concerns about pretty much everything else, and the struggles are pretty consistent with what the concerns were expected to be after the offseason moves.

You should have stepped in when Matthews passed the belt over to Reaves and explained why he didn’t deserve it.

 

[notbias]

You should have stepped in when Matthews passed the belt over to Reaves and explained why he didn’t deserve it.

We could have just brought back Simmonds for probably league min if the belt is that important.

 

[Stephen]

I don't think that is the difference, but I want the best team.

Vegas had an amazing 4th line last year, they contributed to their win.

They are also a team that thought Reaves was not good enough.



The winning GM cut him, he knows more than the rest of the league and you it appears.

Last time I checked the team was doing pretty well and our best player is looking like his peak form Hart Trophy self. Small sample size and circumstantial evidence but I’ll take that over pining over Sam Lafferty.

 

[Kurtz]

No one has presented an argument as to why he is good.

Hitting and fighting don't put the puck into the back of the net.

I will just use a play driving stat since +/- is dumb and I'll use 100 mins as a line together as a cut-off.

Reaves appeared two times in 2022-2023 32nd worst (43.7%) and 46th worst (45.5%).

Reaves appeared three times in 2021-2022 5th worst (34.1%), 12th worst (37.2%), and 98th worst (51.4%).

Reaves appeared once in 2020-2021 46th worst (50%).

Currently (too small of a sample) but the line of Gregor/Kampf/Reaves is 17th (30.4%).

Some of these numbers are terrible and it just means his line is a liability while on the ice.

You need a standard baseline to compare his numbers against, otherwise it's not a useful pursuit.

You need to establish how a standard 4th line or liner performs in that statistical category and then establish if RR is significantly over or under-preforming said standard.

Otherwise it's meaningless and misleading to compare 4th lines to 1st/2nd lines.

ps: What is the formula for the line-driving stat you're using, and why do you consider it to be more meaningful than +/-?

 

[notbias]

Last time I checked the team was doing pretty well and our best player is looking like his peak form Hart Trophy self. Small sample size and circumstantial evidence but I’ll take that over pining over Sam Lafferty.

I am willing to give Reaves a longer leash and he has been fun... I just want the best team.

Right now his line is a liability and he is obviously the weak link, I just hope it changes.

 

[myleafs]

I don't think that is the difference, but I want the best team.

Vegas had an amazing 4th line last year, they contributed to their win.

They are also a team that thought Reaves was not good enough.



The winning GM cut him, he knows more than the rest of the league and you it appears.

All I can say in response to you is thank god there is a ignore button. byeeee

 

[Stephen]

We could have just brought back Simmonds for probably league min if the belt is that important.

Reaves makes $400K more than Wayne Simmonds, which would buy you half a league minimum player.

 

[Gallagbi]

I didn’t really like Laf too much. He kind of had the Engvall wheels with worse hands and didn’t have the winning pedigree and snarl of an Acciari, so to have someone more specialized with an ability to dictate momentum shifts is fine by me.

Agreed the 4th line could definitely tighten things up. But a guy like Reaves needs to be evaluated on what he brings to the table and understand he isn’t there to be that Riley Nash quiet minute guy or that peppy ZAR, Aube-Kubel, Lafferty jack of all trades type.

Im curious, what do you evaluate him on?

I think the physicality is a given, but is there more?

 

[The Management]

There are indications he was brought in to bring some levity to the bench and the lockerroom. Whether or not that works, is something we probably won't have a read on until we see whether these guys play with a little more vim and vigor in the postseason.

I was pretty down on the signing, but have actually liked him so far. Keep him away from other teams' top lines and I think it'll be fine.

 

[notbias]

Reaves makes $400K more than Wayne Simmonds, which would buy you half a league minimum player.

Or, it would allow us to carry Timmins and a 21-man roster.

As I said, I hope he gels more with his linemates and I will reserve too much judgment until game 20, I know he has some value, but people acting like he has been amazing are just flat-out wrong, he has been entertaining. Hopefully, Kampf can cover his short comings.

 

[Gallagbi]

Kampf is way out of his element
He isn’t a crash and bang center
He is dragging that line down. He is playing like an offensive minded center where a fourth line center gets the puck shoots it in the corner and let’s the two heat seeking missels get on the defense with hard hits

Hes definitely out of sorts, we saw the same last year when we started off the season with a forechecking line of NAK - Kampf - ZAR.

I like Gregor so far. Reaves is less capable than i expected and Kampf is a mess.

 

[ACC1224]

You should have stepped in when Matthews passed the belt over to Reaves and explained why he didn’t deserve it.

Never been in a room in his life.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

We've had tons of vocal locker room players in the past.

Sure, but we're talking about Reaves in comparison to Simmonds and Clifford. Both guys are/were well liked but they did not bring the same energy Reaves currently is.

We've had open ice hitters too. In fact, even with Reaves here and the best he'll be on his contract, McCabe is still probably our best open ice hitter.

I think McCabe is a great hitter but again, we were talking about Reaves in comparison to Simmonds and Clifford. You said Reaves was "the same thing" as Simmonds and Clifford and I disagree that he is.

The main benefit Reaves has had going for him in terms of physical deployment is that he doesn't have the Leaf target on his back yet. A couple of the hits he's given out so far would have been called for past players, and will probably be called in the future. I expect it won't be long until he's given the Simmonds treatment - pulled out of fights before they start, and singled out of scrums for existing. It's a little early to be claiming that Reaves won't take too many penalties.

We'll see. I agree that the refs and league in general have been harder on us than other teams but a goal of having more than one dirtbag on the team is that the refs can't so easily single out our lone tough guy.

 

[Stephen]

Im curious, what do you evaluate him on?

I think the physicality is a given, but is there more?

I think Reaves is more or less a sideshow whose role is to help our more important players do their jobs at a high level with more physical and mental comfort. If we get W’s and production and Reaves is out there creating chaos for the opposition that’s more or less circumstantially good enough. If he’s making his presence felt in a marquee matchup and we win. That’s good enough. I’m not benchmarking him to be Sam Lafferty. He’s a marginal piece on a low contract. He’s not a referendum on your hockey worldview.

 

[Cleetus]

lmao!

 

[horner]

No one has presented an argument as to why he is good.

Hitting and fighting don't put the puck into the back of the net.

I will just use a play driving stat since +/- is dumb and I'll use 100 mins as a line together as a cut-off.

Reaves appeared two times in 2022-2023 32nd worst (43.7%) and 46th worst (45.5%).

Reaves appeared three times in 2021-2022 5th worst (34.1%), 12th worst (37.2%), and 98th worst (51.4%).

Reaves appeared once in 2020-2021 46th worst (50%).

Currently (too small of a sample) but the line of Gregor/Kampf/Reaves is 17th (30.4%).

Some of these numbers are terrible and it just means his line is a liability while on the ice.

Hitting and fighting can turn wake up your team like the other night

 

[notbias]

Hitting and fighting can turn wake up your team like the other night

Who did it wake up?

 

[francis246]

View attachment 753552View attachment 753553

Who did it wake up?

I think the point is, the team is more engaged. They are in scrums, they actually don't look bored out of their minds, the star players are going to the hard areas. I'm not gonna pretend the Reaves makes a huge difference, but his presence in the room and how the players are playing compared to previous years is definitely noticeable. There has 100% been a culture reset within the room and I don't think that's just on Reaves. I think Gregor, Domi and Bertuzzi has brought that, the new assistant coaches have brought that, Brad has brought that. I also think Willy and Matty in particular are bringing that energy as well. It feels good (for now). I also firmly believe Keefe can finally be who he wants to be and coach how he wants to coach. His identity has been completely separated from Dubas and I think that's for the better.

 

[Da Mash]

IMHO it was a ok signing.....we have been down this road before trying to add some toughness.

The 4th line has been a liability so far. IMHO.

It is what it is. I dont see much difference from Simmonds being here last year. Maybe the intagiables are better in the locker room

But the success in the playoffs will come down to ....refs and how they call the game compared to regular season.......our star players.....and of course the most important....our goalie.

As we have seen....the team is great in regular season....top team now for years. The game is called differently like no other sport in the playoffs.

If we dont win the cup this year....was signing Bert and Domi and Reeves a failure again? Back to renting players on 1 yr deals again? Will Reeves be looked upon differently if we fail?

Or will we be happy if Reeves beats up a few....but is a minus player and we still lost the series?

The regular season will be another blast and it will again be great to see our stars have great success and watching Knies and Mitten mature

 

[Dekes For Days]

You are choosing to talk about the wrong thing. That’s an odd choice.

What is relevant is the amount of cap that would be taken up after burying him. Multiple people talked about burying the contract

His remaining cap would be .2% of the cap today

Timmins is on LTIR. Lafferty did not have to be moved when he was. And it wasn’t about reeves.

I'm talking about the right thing. The question and discussion was about how much of his contract could be buried. You're talking about something else.
Yes, the amount of dead cap we would have is small, but it's still dead cap. He's not worth 1.35m to play, and he's not worth any dead cap to not play.
Timmins is on LTIR, but that is temporary, and doesn't fix the issue. We'd just end up trying to trade him when teams don't usually like doing trades.
Reaves was overpaid and handed a 4th line spot. That obviously affects the next highest costing player competing for the same limited job on a cap maxed team.

You should have stepped in when Matthews passed the belt over to Reaves and explained why he didn’t deserve it.

Why would I do that? I'm not the one putting meaning on a silly little tradition they do to build team camaraderie. Players who fight often get it (bonus if they're a new teammate); just like past players like Simmonds and Schenn have. I wonder if the never-had-somebody-like-Reaves crowd stepped in then to tell them it didn't count?

 

[Nick034]

Boy would i love two more Reaves on the forth line, and yes i'm oldish. But guess what, playoffs are being played the same way for the last 30 plus years, toughness is needed no matter what some young gm's think.

 

[DarkKnight]

Players love him, coach loves him, former players say he’s making a difference vs dudes with keyboards who can’t skate. Wow, tough call here for me.

Maybe he fades, maybe he becomes a net negative, but so far he’s making the ice dance crew here look silly. Sometimes it’s better to not say anything, I know what a concept. Oh the crippling salary too lol.

 

[Gallagbi]

Never been in a room in his life.

Seems like a spot on take

I think Reaves is more or less a sideshow whose role is to help our more important players do their jobs at a high level with more physical and mental comfort. If we get W’s and production and Reaves is out there creating chaos for the opposition that’s more or less circumstantially good enough. If he’s making his presence felt in a marquee matchup and we win. That’s good enough. I’m not benchmarking him to be Sam Lafferty. He’s a marginal piece on a low contract. He’s not a referendum on your hockey worldview.

Its less about Lafferty specifically for me and more about the role. Hes a 4th line specialist who will get limited minutes. Im having trouble quantifying success in those minutes though given what weve seen. I feel like the standard should be higher than getting caved in every shift.

 

[DarkKnight]

. I feel like the standard should be higher than getting caved in every shift.

That’s just a silly exaggeration to make a tortured point.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Sure, but we're talking about Reaves in comparison to Simmonds and Clifford. Both guys are/were well liked but they did not bring the same energy Reaves currently is.

I think McCabe is a great hitter but again, we were talking about Reaves in comparison to Simmonds and Clifford. You said Reaves was "the same thing" as Simmonds and Clifford and I disagree that he is.

We'll see. I agree that the refs and league in general have been harder on us than other teams but a goal of having more than one dirtbag on the team is that the refs can't so easily single out our lone tough guy.

It's not just Simmonds (who brought quite a bit of energy) and Clifford, and I didn't say they were exact copies either. Everybody has different strengths and weaknesses, but it's just examples of players we've had that bring the same style of play in a similar role. Point is that we've had everything that Reaves brings on the team before.

I think you're letting the Reaves hype and adrenaline of the early season fights and wins get to you. If one of those hits got called, and Matthews wasn't sniping hattys every game, I think perception would be quite different. And this is probably the peak of what we're going to get from him. We also need to remember what these other players were early in their tenure with the Leafs; not how they ended things. I don't imagine the way Reaves ends his contract and career here will be pretty either.

The officiating problem isn't a result of a "dirtbag" number. In fact, it happened to Simmonds numerous times in games where we had other pieces like that and when a lot of the team was active in that regard. It's because we're Toronto, with all eyes on us. I don't see Reaves fixing this issue, but I guess fingers crossed he'll somehow evade the phenomenon that's persisted for ages.