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Confirmed with Link: Leafs sign F Auston Matthews to extension (4 years, $13.25M AAV)

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666 said:
I'm not saying that it's illegal, I'm just saying that it could be interpreted as illegal by someone who doesn't understand and looks back at Capfriendly 20 years from now and is confused by a misleading interpretation. And it's already happening. That's all.
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It prevents that, it doesnt encourage it. Capfriendly tracks aav and cap %, so it wouldnt ever show above 20%


666 said:
This has been beaten to death. I'll give you one more example and can you do with it as you like.
Let's say Nylander signs the exact same contract as Matthews but he signs it next year. People who report it this way will say that Matthews signed for a higher cap hit than Nylander even though it's the exact same contract starting at the exact same time. It's wrong to talk about the exact same contract this way as it's misleading and in the case would make Matthews look bad for no reason.
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The leading cap site in the world would report it exactly like that. The issue is context around the information, not the information itself. Cap % is a calculation, take it as that.

You've done a good job highlighting why its necessary, compliance reasons, but also where cap % has limited value. I just wouldnt stretch it much passed that or it can lead to false statements.
 
pcruz said:
None?

Like, no Stone or Pietrangelo?
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Neither of them were up for major awards last year. So don’t stretch the definition to suggest they were individually great Hart and Norris candidates or whatever. They fit into the collective mission and they achieved ultimate success.

Individual success is usually part and parcel of team success. But if it came down to a dilemma between the two collective success is more important every time.
 
Stephen said:
FYI, Vegas Golden Knights just won a cup with no Hart, Lindsay, Art Ross, Richard, Selke, Norris or Vezina candidate (finalist).

www.nhl.com

2023 NHL Awards finalists | NHL.com

League honors for Hart, Norris, Vezina, others will be announced June 26 in Nashville
www.nhl.com www.nhl.com
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All they needed was an extra 10 million to win...

So yes, they won no awards or had no finalists, but the one person who had the best chance was added to their roster at a $0 cap hit... seems a little unfair.

I'd love to do it too, don't get me wrong.
 
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Gallagbi said:
The leading cap site in the world would report it exactly like that. The issue is context around the information, not the information itself. Cap % is a calculation, take it as that.

You've done a good job highlighting why its necessary, compliance reasons, but also where cap % has limited value. I just wouldnt stretch it much passed that or it can lead to false statements.
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I think we're in agreement. Thx for the civil discussion.
 
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notbias said:
All they needed was an extra 10 million to win...

So yes, they won no awards or had no finalists, but the one person who had the best chance was added to their roster at a $0 cap hit... seems a little unfair.

I'd love to do it too, don't get me wrong.
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I have no problem with that.
 
The main boards are in shambles over Matthews extending in Toronto until he is 31. Oilers fans starting to panic over the thought of McDavid coming home in a few years.

in regards to Matthews new contract, it is what it is! I mean, everyone knew it was going to cost bank to keep him. He could have demanded more and got it.
 
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Dekes For Days said:
What makes you think Treliving desired a different path?
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He probably didn’t. I mean, really, what choice did he have? Matthews had all the leverage, and Marner will too. But I am glad we only signed Matthews for 4 years. If we haven’t won a couple of rounds by then, surely changes will be made.
 
I'm kind of curious now what sort of AAV Matthews would have needed for the full 8 years to leave 4 years of guaranteed money off the table.

If it's $15 million per season over 8 years he would require something like this on the future deal.

Year 1 $13.25 million.
Year 2 $13.25 million.
Year 3 $13.25 million.
Year 4 $13.25 million.

=$53 million

Next Contract

Year 5 $17.75 million.
Year 6 $17.75 million.
Year 7 $17.75 million.
Year 8 $17.75 million.

=$71 million

That would be the difference between $120 million over 8 years vs $106 million over 8 years if he just went $13.25 million for max term. I get $14 million is an astronomical amount of money, but feels like there's quite a bit of exposure on the player side too.
 
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666 said:
I'm not saying that it's illegal, I'm just saying that it could be interpreted as illegal by someone who doesn't understand and looks back at Capfriendly 20 years from now and is confused by a misleading interpretation. And it's already happening. That's all.

This has been beaten to death. I'll give you one more example and can you do with it as you like.
Let's say Nylander signs the exact same contract as Matthews but he signs it next year. People who report it this way will say that Matthews signed for a higher cap hit than Nylander even though it's the exact same contract starting at the exact same time. It's wrong to talk about the exact same contract this way as it's misleading and in the case would make Matthews look bad for no reason.
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Worrying about future casual fan’s interpretations are not a logical way to interpret contracts

We know next years cap by the CBA

It’s different than mcdavids which did not know the cap was going to go up by 6% when the previous bunch of years was 2

Stephen said:
I'm kind of curious now what sort of AAV Matthews would have needed for the full 8 years to leave 4 years of guaranteed money off the table.

If it's $15 million per season over 8 years he would require something like this on the future deal.

Year 1 $13.25 million.
Year 2 $13.25 million.
Year 3 $13.25 million.
Year 4 $13.25 million.

=$53 million

Next Contract

Year 5 $17.75 million.
Year 6 $17.75 million.
Year 7 $17.75 million.
Year 8 $17.75 million.

=$71 million

That would be the difference between $120 million over 8 years vs $106 million over 8 years if he just went $13.25 million for max term. I get $14 million is an astronomical amount of money, but feels like there's quite a bit of exposure on the player side too.
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But the trade off here deom his side ks

Sign from 31-37 at a higher hit l

Or sign until 34 and hope to get a contract at 35
 
Stephen said:
I'm kind of curious now what sort of AAV Matthews would have needed for the full 8 years to leave 4 years of guaranteed money off the table.

If it's $15 million per season over 8 years he would require something like this on the future deal.

Year 1 $13.25 million.
Year 2 $13.25 million.
Year 3 $13.25 million.
Year 4 $13.25 million.

=$53 million

Next Contract

Year 5 $17.75 million.
Year 6 $17.75 million.
Year 7 $17.75 million.
Year 8 $17.75 million.

=$71 million

That would be the difference between $120 million over 8 years vs $106 million over 8 years if he just went $13.25 million for max term. I get $14 million is an astronomical amount of money, but feels like there's quite a bit of exposure on the player side too.
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Plus with ToM, the extra cash up front on the 15Mx8 would work out to more than the split contract you estimated at the eight year mark. And 17.75 seems sporty.

15 probably wasn't on the table but whatever it was it was likely a small net difference at the eight year mark to gamble with health/longevity. I suspect 14.25Mx8 would get you pretty close to your split example.
 
Last edited:
Matthews .. 5 years @ $58 mil total + 4 years @ $53 mil total = 9 years @ $111 mil = $12.33 AAV (average over both contracts)
vs
McDavid 8 years @ $100 mil total = $12.5 mil AAV.

Leafs over the same time period have agreed to play Matthews on average $170 k less than the best player on the planet, who has 5 scoring titles 4 Lindsey and 3 Hart trophies + 1 rocket to his name and named the NHL's 1st team All-Star center 6 of his 8 seasons in the league.
 
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Mess said:
Matthews .. 5 years @ $58 mil total + 4 years @ $53 mil total = 9 years @ $111 mil = $12.33 AAV (average over both contracts)
vs
McDavid 8 years @ $100 mil total = $12.5 mil AAV.

Leafs over the same time period have agreed to play Matthews on average $170 k less than the best player on the planet, who has 5 scoring titles 4 Lindsey and 3 Hart trophies + 1 rocket to his name and named the NHL's 1st team All-Star center 6 of his 8 seasons in the league.
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You're absolutely right. In fact, it's not even debatable. But it is what it is. The Leafs mishandled their core beginning with the Tavares signing. They put themselves in this situation and Matthews used all the leverage they gave him. It's done. But, make no mistake... Matthews' legacy will be determined by the Leafs success over the next 5 seasons. If they continue to disappoint and cannot afford better players to get them over the hump, Matthews will end up taking the heat. Once again, it is what it is. He'll either live up to his demands and go down as a hero or he'll go down as the biggest disappointment in Leafs history. It's up to him now as he somewhat handcuffed the Leafs by choice.
 
Mess said:
Matthews .. 5 years @ $58 mil total + 4 years @ $53 mil total = 9 years @ $111 mil = $12.33 AAV (average over both contracts)
vs
McDavid 8 years @ $100 mil total = $12.5 mil AAV.

Leafs over the same time period have agreed to play Matthews on average $170 k less than the best player on the planet, who has 5 scoring titles 4 Lindsey and 3 Hart trophies + 1 rocket to his name and named the NHL's 1st team All-Star center 6 of his 8 seasons in the league.
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McDavid made about 9x more than Tage Thompson last year.

It was $1.4 AAV vs $12.5 AAV.

McDavid is not 9x the player Thompson is.

I consider both these posts equally relevant.
 
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ACC1224 said:
You've convinced yourself of something and aren't open minded to any other option.
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Fair enough, present another option and let's test your theory.

And if you have already done so in this thread, feel free to dig it up as I'm not skimming through 57 pages to find it.
 
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Mess said:
Matthews .. 5 years @ $58 mil total + 4 years @ $53 mil total = 9 years @ $111 mil = $12.33 AAV (average over both contracts)
vs
McDavid 8 years @ $100 mil total = $12.5 mil AAV.

Leafs over the same time period have agreed to play Matthews on average $170 k less than the best player on the planet, who has 5 scoring titles 4 Lindsey and 3 Hart trophies + 1 rocket to his name and named the NHL's 1st team All-Star center 6 of his 8 seasons in the league.
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Traditionally you want to have a good contract year, and at all costs, avoid a bad one. It's quite impressive that Matty was able to pull this off with an 85 point season (though his second highest). Apart from his first half season, McDavids lowest was 97. Mattys pay rates are all about a mismanaged asset.
 
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LeafEgo said:
Traditionally you want to have a good contract year, and at all costs, avoid a bad one. It's quite impressive that Matty was able to pull this off with an 85 point season (though his second highest). Apart from his first half season, McDavids lowest was 97. Mattys pay rates are all about a mismanaged asset.
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Its those damn greenhorn GMs.
 
Gallagbi said:
Its those damn greenhorn GMs.
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I was thinking I'd like to see a bit more ice time before signing off at full full price, given the recent volatility. But you're not really close enough to gauge the situation real time - you're on pins and needles negotiating with zero leverage. Recent soundbites are Matty pushed to get this done now so it wasn't a 'distraction'. I bet.

But ultimately yeah, greenhorn GM is a polite way to explain away this debacle.
 
kevsh said:
Fair enough, present another option and let's test your theory.

And if you have already done so in this thread, feel free to dig it up as I'm not skimming through 57 pages to find it.
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Could be he’s :
Greedy
Wants to retire young, get into show business with Bieber
Worried Marner won’t be kept
Worried they will rebuild if no success soon
What he feels is best for himself and the team

I’m sure we could dream up others.
 
Shanwhatplan said:
Yes, Keefe has not been good at all in the playoffs. I won’t be surprised if Tre fires him after this coming season, unless they go on a deep run in the playoffs.
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Under Keefe, last couple of seasons the rinse wash repeat is, they typically struggle in October, go Super Nova hot in November, tail off in December. If that pattern follows this year does Keefe get a chance to see November?

2022-23 - October 13th in the east 4-4-2 against some soft opponents. November - 11-1-3.
2021-22 - October 11th in the east 4-4-1. November - 12-2

The Leafs have been November darlings, Keefe hopes that loose trend continues.
 
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