TSN: Leafs set to interview Treliving for GM role

[TheRumble]

I don't think Treliving is an awful GM but he's at best the same as Dubas and I think realistically he's a tier lower.

I dunno much about Calgary's prospects but Treliving's drafting record doesn't light me on fire.

Of the guys that are realistically available I'd rather go for Darche or Pridham. Darche is a guy a lot of the Don Cherry heads here would probably like - played in the NHL as a role player but also served in Tampas front office for years. A compromise between Old Hockey Man and Nerd.

 

[thinkblue]

Craig Conroy was asked today what makes him different from Brad Treveling:
- The ability to bring in young players. Said he's going to leave roster spots for younger players.
- Said Brad was great at knowing the league, what was going on, who was available.
- Said at times Brad did stuff on his own.

about the 24 min mark

 

[LeafsandSharksfan]

I don't really hold the Tkachuk situation against him, but I do look at his body of work and worry that he wasn't really able to build around his star players and get them to the next level, which will be the mission here. He also doesn't strike me as a particularly bold or deep thinker in terms of hockey sense.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I'm not convinced Treliving is the best available candidate but...

The recent drafting record of the Calgary Flames is more of a reflection of their scouting department than Treliving. The same can be said for any NHL club.

In terms of Treliving's track record regarding trades, UFA acquisitions, and contract negotiations, I don't see how anyone can make a legitimate case that he's worse than Dubas in comparison.

If it happens, I for one would not consider it a downgrade.

 

[Atomos2]

Whats the issue with Trevling? I don't really know his track history but it seems like people are upset about Gaudreau and Tkachuk. Gaudreau he probably felt would stay and didn't move him because they were a playoff team looking to make a run. They offered him more than Columbus and he left. Not really his fault. Tkachuk I feel like he got the best possible return to heal some of the damage from losing both Tkachuk and Gaudreau. Only issue is a system fit for those players. That trade will probably look much better if Conroy doesn't screw up the coach hire.

We all know a disaster's coming. Some won't want to admit it, but Leafs are scrambling rn. Needing desperately to make an organization-defining decision in a relatively short time constraint. When has that ever worked out? Let alone for the Leafs who are masters of misfortune.

Treliving isn't even being marketed as the best person for the job. Only the most "experienced GM currently available". Pretty much in spite of Dubas. This is a perfect set-up to an epic disaster that'll further damage the next generation of Leaf fans.

 

[Gabriel426]

Will judge by next playoffs. That’s the only way to judge, even trade of McD to Leafs or whatever, the judgement will be next playoffs.
If the team won’t even make the playoffs, great, it means the firing will be sooner and more time to look for a new President, GM…
If it is first round again, then it is the players
If it is second round but game 7, he earns another year.
If it is ECF, earns another year
If it is Cup Finals, earns another year
If it is is a Cup, build this man a statue.

 

[SprDaVE]

We all know a disaster's coming. Some won't want to admit it, but Leafs are scrambling rn. Needing desperately to make an organization-defining decision in a relatively short time constraint. When has that ever worked out? Let alone for the Leafs who are masters of misfortune.

Treliving isn't even being marketed as the best person for the job. Only the most "experienced GM currently available". Pretty much in spite of Dubas. This is a perfect set-up to an epic disaster that'll further damage the next generation of Leaf fans.

That's a whole lot of dooming, good lord.

 

[Gabriel426]

We all know a disaster's coming. Some won't want to admit it, but Leafs are scrambling rn. Needing desperately to make an organization-defining decision in a relatively short time constraint. When has that ever worked out? Let alone for the Leafs who are masters of misfortune.

Treliving isn't even being marketed as the best person for the job. Only the most "experienced GM currently available". Pretty much in spite of Dubas. This is a perfect set-up to an epic disaster that'll further damage the next generation of Leaf fans.

Why do you think Leafs is scrambling? Only the medias is saying Leafs is in chaos and panic…. Only Dubas and Spezza left. The rest of the AGMs are still here, the scouting department is still here.
All these Leafs need a new GM to get direction is BS, as in any GMs will come in and tear down and rebuild. Even if both AM and Willie don’t want to resign, they will be trade for a huge haul with 1st line players coming back our way. Beside, our playoffs is usually 7 games anyway.

 

[Atomos2]

That's a whole lot of dooming, good lord.

It's called the Leaf fan experience.

 

[LaPlante94]

We all know a disaster's coming. Some won't want to admit it, but Leafs are scrambling rn. Needing desperately to make an organization-defining decision in a relatively short time constraint. When has that ever worked out? Let alone for the Leafs who are masters of misfortune.

Treliving isn't even being marketed as the best person for the job. Only the most "experienced GM currently available". Pretty much in spite of Dubas. This is a perfect set-up to an epic disaster that'll further damage the next generation of Leaf fans.

Is it though? Before we hired Lou we went into the draft with just Shanahan, Dubas, Hunter and a recently hired Pridham. If we went into the draft without a GM hired now we'd have Shanahan, Pridham, Hardy, Metcalf and Wickenheiser and all of the same scouting staff we had when Dubas was here. Pridham is the guy who negotiates contracts so when it comes to Free Agency he's just gonna continue doing what he does. I don't think we're as desperate to hire someone as most think but maybe they hire someone quickly just to shut everyone up about us not having a GM before the draft and all that. If a lot of this current staff Dubas hired wants to leave then that's expected because they'll probably go where he goes but I doubt that'd be before the draft.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Questionable decisions from Treliving...

1. Huberdeau extension (all post-prime years + buy-out proof + full NMC for 6 seasons)
2. Letting Gaudreau go (also not building a winner around him like Dubas lol)
3. Kadri signing (all post-prime years)
4. James Neal signing (all post-prime years)
5. Troy Brouwer signing (all post-prime years)

Some of these decisions can be defended (like Gaudreau leaving) and some can't.

From an overall perspective, he's short-sighted with his decisions. Clearly doesn't think aging is a thing with all these post-prime contracts/extensions.

Possible explanations for these decisions I've heard...

1. Sutter was the coach
2. Calgary is a tough market to be a GM in (hard to recruit talent)
3. He was forced into it (i.e. Huberdeau, Tkachuk, and Gaudreau)

I don't think it's a good look when you have to defend a GM for so many iffy decisions. But maybe others will disagree and that's fair too.

 

[nuck]

Undoubtedly his biggest mistake is that Huberdeau contract, and possibly the Weegar one.

But that Huberdeau contract is one of the worst in the league. Full NMC too

I think with having a 50 win team and losing their top two scorers its either reach for the best players available or tank and if its possible any club will do the reach first. If he had to ask ownership they are not going to want to start a rebuild. His bad luck two of the players he added were among the unrepeatable fluke years that many achieved that season.

Huberdeau scored at a 90 point pace in 18,19 and almost in 2020 and he outscored Barkov by 27 points in 2021 so it isn't like he was being carried. The deal may turn out to be a killer but odds were heavily in for of him scoring 80+ at least this season. Tkachuk had a gun to Tree's head so a hard situation to make any kind of a winning deal. The Carolina deal centered around Necas who was coming off a 14 goal year so not really comparable at the time.

 

[GoonieFace]

I can’t really blame any Calgary GM for overpaying UFA’s. Nobody wants to play there, so you have to pay more.

 

[Bomber0104]

“The simplistic way (assistant GM Chris Snow) broke it down, he says what’s available in the public sphere, it’d be like going to a game and turning the lights out for 50 seconds of every minute,” Treliving explained of the depth of information Calgary has. “So you’ve got basically an 8-to-10 second look at what happens in a game. A lot of the public information is anywhere between 300-500 events that take place in a game. We’re over 4,000. There’s just a whole lot more happening and you’re studying a whole lot more.

“Not to poo-poo what’s out there, but we invest significant money, time, personnel, people to come up with the data we come up with and that’s just not what’s out there publicly.”

Interesting Treliving quote from a few years ago, crapping all over free "advanced" blogger stats that a sub-section of hockey fans 100% rely on to shape literally every single one of their opinions.

 

[baton elevated]

Don't be all gloom and doom, there are alot of ingredients that go into drafting, pro scouting and running a cap compliant team. It doesn't all fall on the GM. The scouts look for the players the GM designates as a "this team's type of player" Dubas's request was always skill and IQ, so the scouts targeted those types.

Scouts have a lot to do with the make up of a team. Pro scouts are suppose to target already in the league players for trades. Our pro scouts are not great in my opinion because we never get equal value in trades.

Ultimately GM's make good deals and they make bad deals, it's suppose to even out in time. Our scouting department is one of the better ones and we still have a team of AGM's to aid the incoming GM. It will be a team by committee and Pridham and Wick will be very hands on and valuable to name a couple.

When Dubas made his first move it was terrible (Kessel) we did not get great value there and paid some of his cap hit for many years. So the hands of some are forced like Tree was backed into a corner.

 

[The Legend]

Questionable decisions from Treliving...

1. Huberdeau extension (all post-prime years + buy-out proof + full NMC for 6 seasons)
2. Letting Gaudreau go (also not building a winner around him like Dubas lol)
3. Kadri signing (all post-prime years)
4. James Neal signing (all post-prime years)
5. Troy Brouwer signing (all post-prime years)

Some of these decisions can be defended (like Gaudreau leaving) and some can't.

From an overall perspective, he's short-sighted with his decisions. Clearly doesn't think aging is a thing with all these post-prime contracts/extensions.

Possible explanations for these decisions I've heard...

1. Sutter was the coach
2. Calgary is a tough market to be a GM in (hard to recruit talent)
3. He was forced into it (i.e. Huberdeau, Tkachuk, and Gaudreau)

I don't think it's a good look when you have to defend a GM for so many iffy decisions. But maybe others will disagree and that's fair too.

Here's a better angle - what has he done well?

 

[Stephen]

I'm a big draft and develop guy, but at the same time the criticism against Treliving based on his draft record doesn't necessarily align well with where the Leafs are at the moment.

A guy like Jim Rutherford, whom I very much dislike, went into Pittsburgh, made a couple of hockey deals and turned an underachieving Penguins team relative to their core into a back to back champion. That's sort of the mission statement for whatever GM comes in to work in Toronto than someone with an enviable drafting record.

Obviously you can't really divorce drafting and contending entirely, but a 2018-2022 draft record shouldn't be the frame of reference for our candidates.

 

[TheRumble]

Another wrinkle to the Treliving thing is that Calgary isn't gonna allow him to work until after the draft and given how few picks we have we have to hit on like 2 of these picks.

The Draft happens on June 28th and 29th. So Treliving starts work on the 30th and has to work on extending the core right away.

 

[The Masters]

This guy is shyt do not want

 

[Leaf Fans]

It's called the Leaf fan experience.

Not really. all Leaf fans have had the same or similar experiences and they are not all doom and gloom.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Questionable decisions from Treliving...

1. Huberdeau extension (all post-prime years + buy-out proof + full NMC for 6 seasons)
2. Letting Gaudreau go (also not building a winner around him like Dubas lol)
3. Kadri signing (all post-prime years)
4. James Neal signing (all post-prime years)
5. Troy Brouwer signing (all post-prime years)

Some of these decisions can be defended (like Gaudreau leaving) and some can't.

From an overall perspective, he's short-sighted with his decisions. Clearly doesn't think aging is a thing with all these post-prime contracts/extensions.

Possible explanations for these decisions I've heard...

1. Sutter was the coach
2. Calgary is a tough market to be a GM in (hard to recruit talent)
3. He was forced into it (i.e. Huberdeau, Tkachuk, and Gaudreau)

I don't think it's a good look when you have to defend a GM for so many iffy decisions. But maybe others will disagree and that's fair too.

If you read the Flames board, you will realize that their ownership group gave Treliving a mandate to stay competitive the last few years despite his preference to rebuild. He was offered a contract extension earlier in the season and didn't accept it. Ultimately, it was his decision to leave because of a clash in philosophy.

The general sentiment of Flames fans is that it was time for a change, and that Treliving did a good job under difficult circumstances.

 

[Menzinger]

I think his ability of finding good trades and players. Also being able to build a team that, at least on paper, is really good. Not many people predicted that team to implode last season. His drafting is also a lot better than a lot of the other "veteran" GMs, but that can vary a lot depending on scouts and draft position. His 2015 and 2016 drafts were among the best. A lot of the really good value on that team is because of him and a lot of those additions wasn't just an easy thing. He's competent. Not to say he hasn't made bad signing and trade mistakes... but who hasn't? Aside from the Tkachuk trade/Huberdeau extension, what was his worst trade/signing from the top of your head?

Lack of playoff success to me is the big red flag. His coaching hires seem pretty bad as well. Those 2 things seem a lot worse than his actual GM performance of trading/signing/drafting, but they got hand in hand I suppose.

Fair enough but that doesn't strike me as anything to get particularly excited about - overseeing a few good drafts 7-8 years ago...

The whole James Neal signing, and then trading him for Lucic was less than ideal to say the least - probably his worst move overall. Getting locked into a guy for 6 mil to score 20 points a season....

I don't think he's necessarily the worst GM in the league or anything like that..but seems as if the best case scenario is "he'll be okay"

 

[nuck]

You didn't specify 2018 onwards. You just said it was awful when it isn't.

Dubas did better at finding better talent for sure from 2018 to 2022.. I think Wolf and Poirier for the Flames will change a lot of that in the future but who knows.

Most of those Leaf games were Durzi who doesn't move the needle much and one of the complaints about Sutter is he wouldn't play the kids (or anyone small) so....

Even if there was a large different in quality as long as Tree doesn't bring over the Flames scouting staff that's not going to be a thing. The Flames spend a fraction of what the Leafs do so they really shouldn't succeed as often.

 

[Stephen]

Fair enough but that doesn't strike me as anything to get particularly excited about - overseeing a few good drafts 7-8 years ago...

The whole James Neal signing, and then trading him for Lucic was less than ideal to say the least - probably his worst move overall. Getting locked into a guy for 6 mil to score 20 points a season....

I don't think he's necessarily the worst GM in the league or anything like that..but seems as if the best case scenario is "he'll be okay"

Yeah, but just okay is kind of our point of reference from the last guy... you lay out the full Dubas resume, there's a lot of bleh.

 

[Menzinger]

If you read the Flames board, you will realize that their ownership group gave Treliving a mandate to stay competitive the last few years despite his preference to rebuild..

Seems like the situation he'd probably be walking into again in Toronto....