Speculation: Leafs rushed the rebuild

[Dale Gribble]

I'm of the opinion that signing Tavares to 7 years @ $11 million AAV, wasn't the greatest of moves. Not that signing Tavares was a bad move, but that's a high cap hit, and all it does is inflate Matthews and Marner contracts. Zero chance that Matthews was going to take less money than Tavares, and I'd be shocked if Marner now takes less than $10 million. I think without the Tavares deal, Matthews could have signed for 11 max, and Marner maybe 9 - all speculative of course, and we'll never really know. Just my 2 cents.

 

[klamla]

I'm of the opinion that signing Tavares to 7 years @ $11 million AAV, wasn't the greatest of moves. Not that signing Tavares was a bad move, but that's a high cap hit, and all it does is inflate Matthews and Marner contracts. Zero chance that Matthews was going to take less money than Tavares, and I'd be shocked if Marner now takes less than $10 million. I think without the Tavares deal, Matthews could have signed for 11 max, and Marner maybe 9 - all speculative of course, and we'll never really know. Just my 2 cents.

but then you don't have tavares

 

[Leafs87]

but then you don't have tavares

Against what most think deep team are better than a couple stars filled with Ennis’ throughout. Pens for like 6 years were brutal until they found a bunch of late picks that panned

They should of signed Matthews, Nylander and Marner and build a good deep team around them. After you have a few team then you go for a big ticket UFA. The way we did it just destroys the cap and willingness to take team friendly deals

 

[kevsh]

Regardless of what anyone thinks of signing Tavares, the situation the Leafs are in is pretty clear: They have to find ways to get better while getting cheaper. That is an incredibly difficult task.

And that scenario would be easily understandable if they had a Stanley Cup (of course it's entirely possible that may happen this spring), but the core of this team hasn't yet hit their prime and already Dubas has to find a way to surround his extremely expensive stars with cap-friendly talent.

It's not exactly a fair comparison but the Leafs are essentially where the Hawks were right after they won their first Cup, without the Cup of course.

 

[AllDay28]

lollll this hot take didnt even last a week

 

[Dale Gribble]

but then you don't have tavares

As good as Tavares is, he's the 3rd best offensive player long term on the Leafs. I'd rather spread the money out better, and potentially even get Matthews and Marner at lower rates than to have Tavares at $11 million. My favourite is hearing how Tavares "took less money", he took less AAV (supposedly offered around $13 million in San Jose), but I doubt San Jose would've paid the same amount of bonus money, thus making Tavares' deal lockout and buyout proof. Leafs are only in years 3 with Matthews and Marner, and are already facing cap issues... let that sink in.

 

[Advanced stats]

Against what most think deep team are better than a couple stars filled with Ennis’ throughout. Pens for like 6 years were brutal until they found a bunch of late picks that panned

They should of signed Matthews, Nylander and Marner and build a good deep team around them. After you have a few team then you go for a big ticket UFA. The way we did it just destroys the cap and willingness to take team friendly deals

But we have a deep team. Ennis is back and we hardly have a spot for him.

Even after Matthews, Marner and Nylander that you mentioned, we have depth in Kadri, Kapanen, Johnsson, Brown, and obviously tavares. Depth is fine and will be for years.

 

[Dale Gribble]

But we have a deep team. Ennis is back and we hardly have a spot for him.

Even after Matthews, Marner and Nylander that you mentioned, we have depth in Kadri, Kapanen, Johnsson, Brown, and obviously tavares. Depth is fine and will be for years.

You think the Leafs can afford to keep all of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Kadri, Kapanen, Johnsson, Reilly, Gardiner, and Muzzin in 3 years ?

 

[sxvnert]

I'm withholding judgment on Dubas and the Leafs until I see how they manage the off-season, but I think the team is in much, much better shape with this move.

Marleau and Zaitsev still part of this team next season will be a complete failure. Package whatever is necessary to move that 10.75m off the books.

 

[Advanced stats]

You think the Leafs can afford to keep all of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Kadri, Kapanen, Johnsson, Reilly, Gardiner, and Muzzin in 3 years ?

Nope.. Gardiner will be gone and Kadri is 50/50 depending what he asks for on a new deal.

The rest are 95% keepers

 

[sxvnert]

Gardiner

This was always Gards last season. The Muzzin trade sealed the deal.

 

[sxvnert]

You think the Leafs can afford to keep all of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Kadri, Kapanen, Johnsson, Reilly, Gardiner, and Muzzin in 3 years ?

Also the cap will be 90m+ (possibly 95) by then.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Rebuild? That's done, just need to decorate.

No money left.

 

[Leafs87]

You think the Leafs can afford to keep all of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Kadri, Kapanen, Johnsson, Reilly, Gardiner, and Muzzin in 3 years ?

Yes those are nice players. Curious what the Rielly,Andersen and Kadri extensions looks like now the doors open and having already once taken team friendly deals.

We also have Zaitsev,Brown, Lindholm, Gauthier who shouldn’t be where they are in the lineup or in the lineup at all. Gauthier could grow into the role and Zaitsev maybe should be a 5 or 6 D man. As you guys saw from the Muzzin acquisition we need depth and role players and our D is still garbage beyond Rielly and Muzzin. Dermott still young and green. There was a lot of holes to fill on this team before going for Tavares or even trading for Muzzin. That trade doesn’t make them sure fire favourites although I love Muzzins game. Ideally I would of used this year to grow internally, negotiate new deals go with what we have as far as it takes us. Next year when the core is signed you start making trades to fill holes your rebuild couldn’t fill and go for UFAs. Just my opinion I’m sure many will have different ones.

2018
Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Johnsson-Nylander-Kapanen
Marleau-Kadri-Brown
Lindholm-Gauthier-Ennis

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Dermott-Oz

2019

Johsson-Matthews-Marner
HymanNylander-UFA/Trade
Marleau-Kadri-Kapanen
Grundstrom-Gauthier-Moore

Rielly-UFA/trade
Dermott-Zaitsev/UFA trade
Sandin-Lil

 

[Dale Gribble]

This was always Gards last season. The Muzzin trade sealed the deal.

I agree, but Leafs will have to replace him with somebody, and Lilgren/Sandin don't look ready. I'm not a fan of Gardiner due to his poor defensive play, but even I'll admit it won't be easy to replace most of his point production. The Leafs going top heavy is already looking to bite them in the you know where, and in 3 years time it most likely will be even worse. Dubas was supposed to be the next great GM, but he's looking like he's in over his head right now. Doesn't help that he's one of those individuals who thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.

Yes those are nice players. Curious what the Rielly,Andersen and Kadri extensions looks like now the doors open and having already once taken team friendly deals.

We also have Zaitsev,Brown, Lindholm, Gauthier who shouldn’t be where they are in the lineup or in the lineup at all. Gauthier could grow into the role and Zaitsev maybe should be a 5 or 6 D man. As you guys saw from the Muzzin acquisition we need depth and role players and our D is still garbage beyond Rielly and Muzzin. Dermott still young and green. There was a lot of holes to fill on this team before going for Tavares or even trading for Muzzin. That trade doesn’t make them sure fire favourites although I love Muzzins game. Ideally I would of used this year to grow internally, negotiate new deals go with what we have as far as it takes us. Next year when the core is signed you start making trades to fill holes your rebuild couldn’t fill and go for UFAs. Just my opinion I’m sure many will have different ones.

2018
Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Johnsson-Nylander-Kapanen
Marleau-Kadri-Brown
Lindholm-Gauthier-Ennis

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Dermott-Oz

2019

Johsson-Matthews-Marner
HymanNylander-UFA/Trade
Marleau-Kadri-Kapanen
Grundstrom-Gauthier-Moore

Rielly-UFA/trade
Dermott-Zaitsev/UFA trade
Sandin-Lil

I don't see Nylander as a 2nd line centre, and something tells me that Babs & Co. don't either.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Against what most think deep team are better than a couple stars filled with Ennis’ throughout. Pens for like 6 years were brutal until they found a bunch of late picks that panned

They should of signed Matthews, Nylander and Marner and build a good deep team around them. After you have a few team then you go for a big ticket UFA. The way we did it just destroys the cap and willingness to take team friendly deals

Have you looked at this team? It's about as deep as it gets, in fact there is so much depth that there are NHL caliber players playing in the AHL because there is no room for them, Exhibit A being Trevor Moore

 

[hotpaws]

Have you looked at this team? It's about as deep as it gets, in fact there is so much depth that there are NHL caliber players playing in the AHL because there is no room for them, Exhibit A being Trevor Moore

and we have AHL players on the Leafs , Exhibit A/B/C being Lindholm/Goat/Sparks

we have room for internal improvement , i just don't understand why mgmt won't make a few moves

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I'm of the opinion that signing Tavares to 7 years @ $11 million AAV, wasn't the greatest of moves. Not that signing Tavares was a bad move, but that's a high cap hit, and all it does is inflate Matthews and Marner contracts. Zero chance that Matthews was going to take less money than Tavares, and I'd be shocked if Marner now takes less than $10 million. I think without the Tavares deal, Matthews could have signed for 11 max, and Marner maybe 9 - all speculative of course, and we'll never really know. Just my 2 cents.

Yes we should have less good players.

GIVE US LESS, GIVE US LESS GIVE US LESS GIVE US LESS

 

[baton elevated]

It's poorly constructed. We need less of the same and a few lunch pail types who grind and control the boards and corners.
More players that play like Hyman but meaner.
Controlling the boards allows you to control the game and dictate the pace, we are too soft in that critical aspect.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

and we have AHL players on the Leafs , Exhibit A/B/C being Lindholm/Goat/Sparks

we have room for internal improvement , i just don't understand why mgmt won't make a few moves

and that is why unlike some I DO want Glendening so that Lindholm at Goat don't play.

Ennis Glendening Brown perfect 4th line

 

[hotpaws]

and that is why unlike some I DO want Glendening so that Lindholm at Goat don't play.

Ennis Glendening Brown perfect 4th line

except Babs will overplay Glendening like he does Hyman and if we also got him Abdelker then all his kids are here and they'd be our 1st line , lol

imo we're better off promoting from the Marlies than waste an asset on trash like Glendening who still has 2 more years after this season left at almost 2m per

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

except Babs will overplay Glendening like he does Hyman and if we also got him Abdelker then all his kids are here and they'd be our 1st line , lol

imo we're better off promoting from the Marlies than waste an asset on trash like Glendening who still has 2 more years after this season left at almost 2m per

The problem is thrrr is no center depth, beyond the big 3 in Toronto so you have to go get someb because there is NOTHING after Matthews Tavares Kadri

 

[SnizzMitch]

Without Tavares, we don’t make the playoffs this year, especially with the way Matthews is playing recently..

 

[hotpaws]

The problem is thrrr is no center depth, beyond the big 3 in Toronto so you have to go get someb because there is NOTHING after Matthews Tavares Kadri

I agree but our top 3 C's can easily chew up 55 mins a game so realistically we really don't need a 4th line C for more than a few mins a game and giving Babs one of his favorite toys can only lead to trouble .

 

[hotpaws]

Without Tavares, we don’t make the playoffs this year, especially with the way Matthews is playing recently..

we make the playoffs and make them easily without Tavares just like we did last year without him

lets not start shitting on the team like the Islanders fans did for a decade to make JT's light shine brighter , JT's having a very good year but he's still been only our 3rd best forward