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Speculation: Leafs rushed the rebuild

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TheMadHatTrick said:
In retrospect the priority should have been Matthews, Marner, then Nylander. Give Nylander what was left after inking those two and if he didn't like it see ya.
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Ok but what happens when Marner and matthews don’t want to sign one year out? Exactly what did happen, you just don’t sign nylander and wait another full season?

You’re theory doesn’t work because nylander has to have a contract the other didn’t have to have one
 
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Walshy7 said:
Ok but what happens when Marner and matthews don’t want to sign one year out? Exactly what did happen, you just don’t sign nylander and wait another full season?

You’re theory doesn’t work because nylander has to have a contract the other didn’t have to have one
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Huh? My theory doesn't work because of your theory? You're acting like you have inside knowledge of the process.

Both Matthews and Marner were willing to negotiate over the summer. Marner just didn't want to negotiate in season. I'm not sure what you mean.

Willy didn't want his contract to be blown away by Matty and Mitch. Once their contracts were on the books then he would have known exactly where he stood in the pecking order. And yes, I was prepared to have Willy sit when it was just him and he wouldn't come down on his ask.
 
I still think the solution to all of this was extremely obvious. Trade William Nylander for a defenceman in the off-season. William Nylander is more of a luxury than John Tavares.

The Leafs already showed in the first two months that they can do just fine without him.

If you trade Nylander, it does the following:
- You have more money free to spend on other players. Not necessarily $7M, since that defenceman will have a salary of some significance unless it's ELC, but likely a good chunk of that.
- You acquire a player in an area of need, for a player in an area of depth.
- Since you already traded for a defenceman, you still have Carl Grundstrom, Sean Durzi and your first-round pick.

I'm withholding judgment on Dubas and the Leafs until I see how they manage the off-season, but I think the team is in much, much better shape with this move.
 
Marmoset said:
I still think the solution to all of this was extremely obvious. Trade William Nylander for a defenceman in the off-season. William Nylander is more of a luxury than John Tavares.

The Leafs already showed in the first two months that they can do just fine without him.

If you trade Nylander, it does the following:
- You have more money free to spend on other players. Not necessarily $7M, since that defenceman will have a salary of some significance unless it's ELC, but likely a good chunk of that.
- You acquire a player in an area of need, for a player in an area of depth.
- Since you already traded for a defenceman, you still have Carl Grundstrom, Sean Durzi and your first-round pick.

I'm withholding judgment on Dubas and the Leafs until I see how they manage the off-season, but I think the team is in much, much better shape with this move.
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No they didn't. A super-hot start does not show that the Leafs can do without Nylander. They had a ridiculously high oish%. Marner wasn't going to score 170 points, Rielly was not going to have a 120 point season, and Tavares/Matthews weren't going to score 75 goals. Can the Leafs survive without Nylander? Yeah, of course. They could also survive without Tavares or Marner. But they haven't shown it yet. Just look at the past 2/3 months? They fell HARD and even Nylander coming back couldn't help them.
 
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Rush the rebuild? Admitting that signing Tavares to 11m has upset the scheduled cap structure. But you got Tavares for free. If it means for cap reasons that you have trade 7m Nylander for picks or prospects....isn't that a good trade off?
 
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LeafingTheWay said:
No they didn't. A super-hot start does not show that the Leafs can do without Nylander. They had a ridiculously high oish%. Marner wasn't going to score 170 points, Rielly was not going to have a 120 point season, and Tavares/Matthews weren't going to score 75 goals. Can the Leafs survive without Nylander? Yeah, of course. They could also survive without Tavares or Marner. But they haven't shown it yet. Just look at the past 2/3 months? They fell HARD and even Nylander coming back couldn't help them.
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If you're arguing that Nylander hasn't been able to help them (which all evidence suggests is true), isn't that still suggesting that he has not made a significant impact on the team?

I'm not arguing that Nylander is a negative or makes no difference at all. I'm arguing that the resources (i.e. salary) the Leafs have would be better spent with Nylander moved for other pieces, and still having that pieces used to acquire Muzzin.

I also think it's obvious both Tavares and Marner are much more important to the team. A Kapanen or Johnsson can replace Nylander much more than they could replace one of those guys.
 
TheMadHatTrick said:
Huh? My theory doesn't work because of your theory? You're acting like you have inside knowledge of the process.

Both Matthews and Marner were willing to negotiate over the summer. Marner just didn't want to negotiate in season. I'm not sure what you mean.

Willy didn't want his contract to be blown away by Matty and Mitch. Once their contracts were on the books then he would have known exactly where he stood in the pecking order. And yes, I was prepared to have Willy sit when it was just him and he wouldn't come down on his ask.
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We going to go around in circles? Where is your source for them willing to sign in the off-season
 
Leafs87 said:
I knew they would.

They weren’t ready to add a huge UFA like Tavares. The timing they had to make a choice and I get it. I said at the time how much I hated the decision.

Here it is now proving to us all why it was the wrong one. Yes he’s a hell of player but he destroyed the cap structure on the team. Leafs should of re signed their core before going after Tavares.

That should of been priority number one not getting another high priced forward. It arguably took away 3 years of us being competitive. Can’t even imagine what the Marner contract will look like either. Fact is also Tavares was a luxury not a need at all.

Doubt Matthews contract looked like this if not for Tavares.

Reported asks for Marner 9X8 and Matthews 12.34*8 in the summer (although Matthews there was a lot of different insider opinions on what the number in the summer was but either way it was 8 years.)
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Shut up and be happy with what you have. Just shut up.
 
LEAFANFORLIFE23 said:
You have an obsession with trading Nylander for some reason
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Prefer not to trade Nylander. But looking at the cap for next year about 6.5m has to cut after all RFAs are signed. Would prefer to trade a retired Marleau. But if Marleau stays and plays, one player and his cap hit makes more sense to me than trading multiple players to reach that 6.5m goal and then to find multiple competent replacements.
 
Rushed the rebuild?....not sure but i know this....Babcock will whine and complain behind closed doors that he needs this and that...behind closed door gm and all.

Players will come and go..due to the fact he takes years to know a player..then often misuses the player...only to sour on him.

The blame game is a big part of Babcock hockey......."Not me"
 
lifelonghockeyfan said:
Prefer not to trade Nylander. But looking at the cap for next year about 6.5m has to cut after all RFAs are signed. Would prefer to trade a retired Marleau. But if Marleau stays and plays, one player and his cap hit makes more sense to me than trading multiple players to reach that 6.5m goal and then to find multiple competent replacements.
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So trading Nylander makes more sense to you than trading Zaitsev and Brown? Because that's the answer
 
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LEAFANFORLIFE23 said:
So trading Nylander makes more sense to you than trading Zaitsev and Brown? Because that's the answer
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If everyone thinks that Zaitsev is negative value. especially with five years left on his contract then the Leafs have to give a sweetener too. And then you still have to find a competent Dman to taken Zaitsev's spot. I think I'm being a realist in believing Nylander is the best move for the Leafs. The Leafs aren't the only teams that will be wanting to dump cap this summer. Jets, Tampa, Ducks, maybe more teams will be the Leafs competitors.
 
lifelonghockeyfan said:
If everyone thinks that Zaitsev is negative value. especially with five years left on his contract then the Leafs have to give a sweetener too. And then you still have to find a competent Dman to taken Zaitsev's spot. I think I'm being a realist in believing Nylander is the best move for the Leafs. The Leafs aren't the only teams that will be wanting to dump cap this summer. Jets, Tampa, Ducks, maybe more teams will be the Leafs competitors.
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The jets may have to dump, money but I bet my bottom dollar they don't trade a core piece to do it.
 
Walshy7 said:
Ok but what happens when Marner and matthews don’t want to sign one year out? Exactly what did happen, you just don’t sign nylander and wait another full season?

You’re theory doesn’t work because nylander has to have a contract the other didn’t have to have one
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We actually don't if they didn't want to be signed or that Marner just wanted to go last which still remains. I heard Friedman the other day actually say both of their camps were surprised and possibly a little off put by not getting it done last summer.
 
No they did not lol.

They have two of the top five centres in G/GP and 3 of the top 20 signed long term, they also have Rielly signed for multiple years, Nylander as well. Marner will likely be signed soon.

Even if this team had poor forward depth, they are still able to roll three lines with great players on it.

Matthews-Nylander
Tavares-Marner
Kadri with one of Kap/Johnsson.

D will get better and will likely have Sandin and Liljegren soon, Gardiner gone this year, Marleau gone after next year leaves enough room to sign Muzzin.

How exactly did they rush anything?

Our window is much larger than 5 years. Look at the Capitals...they won after 10+ years of their core together and they are still a good team. Ovechkin occupied a shit ton of the cap % and they still made it work.

Pay your stars. Cheap out on the rest and you will be fine.
 
Umm I mean if you really want the leafs to continue rebuilding they could just trade tavares, mathews and marner for an infinite worth of 1st round draft picks. Problem solved lol.
 
Nithoniniel said:
A rushed rebuild is one that creates a half-assed core group and then tries to take shortcuts that lead to them not reaching contender status. We have the best young core in the league and are already contenders. We rushed nothing.
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Yep, if you have a good elite core, what is happening to the Leafs is what you expect.

Penguins shot up the standings, as did Washington, as did Chicago, as did LA...Tampa had a few hiccups where they were in and out of the playoffs but they too can be counted here.

Bad rebuilds: Edmonton (traded anything of value for one year of success), Buffalo (still stuck), Dallas (they alternate between good and bad years and have no depth), Colorado (see Dallas).

Leafs have much of their core locked up for the foreseeable future and the crazy thing? We still have not seen the best of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Johnsson, Kapanen, Rielly and guys like Moore, Sandin, Liljegren are still waiting for their turn.
 
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Future looks good with Sandin, Liljgren, Rosen, Bracco and Moore taking over for Zaitsev, Oz, Lindholm, Brown, Marleau, etc
 
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