Line Combos: Leafs roster [Before] & [After] and work in progress

[Racer88]

We clearly arent getting two top 6 LW and of our current options he has the best chance of producing admirably.

Sad isn’t it……

 

[Racer88]

I am not necessarily saying he is a first line player, but he did play the majority of his minutes on the top 2 lines in AZ, and performed very well.

Having him in the top 6, even the top line is not completely out of the realm of posabilities

for example, Bryan Rust in PIT. Is he really a top line forward? Does he scream 1st liner to you? well he plays alongside Sid and Guentzel and does well. No reason to believe Bunting couldn't do the same

It’s possible, I sure hope it happens. I look forward to the season starting but I don’t have much faith left in this group however I will still watch every game

 

[Twine Tickler]

It’s possible, I sure hope it happens. I look forward to the season starting but I don’t have much faith left in this group however I will still watch every game

Ya that's fair, I get it. It's hard to get emotionally invested in this group given their track record. I still believe in the core players personally. I may be part of the minority on that front. But it is undeniable the year to year improvements they make to their individual games. Mitch and Auston morphed from prospects to stars to elite superstars over the last 5 years. They have had individual success and have developed into amazing players. I really do believe their training this summer and play throughout the regular season will be about conditioning themselves for the post season. Call me a fool, I can understand it. But Mitch and Auston are exceptional players, they will figure it out eventually. My hope is that we don't lose patience, and more importantly they don't lose patience. It's obviously not how you draft up the winning formula, but they don't ask how they ask how many. if they can manage to win it all in the next 3 years, these proceeding years will never be spoken about ever again. Just keep moving the needle forward

 

[Mattavarner]

Move engvall and go for Tarasenko at 50%
Sign Ritchie

Bunting-Matthews-Tarasenko
Ritchie-Tavares-Marner
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Nylander
Simmonds-Kampf-Spezza

Either way I think sticking with the core 4 will not get us past the first round and it will ultimately cost Dubas his job

 

[Chief Berube]

Okay so obviously the lineup looks like crap yes BUT what if that’s what we needed. We play better when we are underdogs. Maybe all we needed all along was to put our backs against the wall

 

[Zybalto]

Taking the playoff push lineup smacks of agenda so lets check out the opening night lineup from one of the best teams in hockey last year and compare:

Last years opening night lineup:

Thornton-Matthews-Marner
Vesey-Tavares-Nylander
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Hyman
Barabanov-Spezza-Simmonds

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Dermott-Bogosian

Andersen Campbell

This years projected lineup so far?

x-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander
Bunting-Kampf-Mikheyev
Simmonds-Brooks-Spezza

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Dermott

Campbell Mrazek

8/12 forwards remain, 5/6 dmen and 1/2 goalies.

With Thornton, Vesey, Barabanov and Andersen all crashing and burning last year, the big losses have been Hyman (who is going to be tough to replace) and Bogo (who is a tad overrated and Sandin is fine as a replacement.)

The biggest problem from last year (Andersen being one of the worst starters in the league) has been addressed is the best thing to see. The question mark of who plays with Matthews/Marner is the big issue I'm guessing they will try different players to see who gels. Not sure where guys like Robertson and Liljegren fit in and there is still some money to make another move. It's not a surprise to see assistant coaches go after special teams issues that a team this talented shouldnt be having.

Despite all the weird injuries since he took over, Keefe's Leafs have the 6th best record in hockey over his stretch. Lets hope the moves made this year will finally add the right chemistry to get over the hump.

 

[TiMo15]

Move engvall and go for Tarasenko at 50%
Sign Ritchie

Bunting-Matthews-Tarasenko
Ritchie-Tavares-Marner
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Nylander
Simmonds-Kampf-Spezza

Either way I think sticking with the core 4 will not get us past the first round and it will ultimately cost Dubas his job

Next year is probably his last chance to believe the big 4. If no playoff or past first round, something big must be done.

 

[Community]

Move engvall and go for Tarasenko at 50%
Sign Ritchie

Bunting-Matthews-Tarasenko
Ritchie-Tavares-Marner
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Nylander
Simmonds-Kampf-Spezza

Either way I think sticking with the core 4 will not get us past the first round and it will ultimately cost Dubas his job

Realism aside as I think Tarasenko trade is sadly very unlikely, why do we have 3 shooters on one line? Who is going to pass?

 

[saffronleaf]

Robertson and Liljegren need to have Calder nomination type years; Bunting needs to reinvent himself into a very good player; one of the goaltenders need to establish themselves. Lots up in the air with low probability of all of it coming together.

Bunding - Matthews - Nylander
Robertson - Tavares - Marner
Kerfoot - Kampf - Mikheyev
Engvall - Spezza - Simmonds

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Liljegren

Campbell
Mrazek

 

[Ashdown2]

Robertson and Liljegren need to have Calder nomination type years; Bunting needs to reinvent himself into a very good player; one of the goaltenders need to establish themselves. Lots up in the air with low probability of all of it coming together.

Bunding - Matthews - Nylander
Robertson - Tavares - Marner
Kerfoot - Kampf - Mikheyev
Engvall - Spezza - Simmonds

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Liljegren

Campbell
Mrazek

i seriously don't get the pessimism on these boards. people need to chill out

whats with the doom and gloom, we are bringing back basically the same dcore and goaltending from a team that was top 5 to 7 defensive stats all year. there is no "probablity" of this team being great defensively again. every other top team in the east lost an important dman and we didnt lose anything.
and please i dont want to hear any bullshit about a 13min a night sheltered dman that was super overrated and pretend like he was the key member of this dcore being good.


sure offense needs a shift and we can go on and on and on about peoples opinions about the offense .... but based on the Dcore and goaltending alone i like it.

 

[NJG]

Ritchie - Matthews - Marner
Amirov - Tavares - Nylander
Bunting - Spezza - ????????
Gabriel - Kampf - Simmonds

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Hutton - Sandin

Campbell
Mrazek

- Trade Kerfoot, Mikheyev, Engvall. Get Ritchie. Sign a decent two way forward (RW) for the third line, or use a prospect or someone on the marlies.

- I know Amirov is young and still developing, but I mean with this roster and the pickups we've made so far he has a lot more offensive upside then all of them so I mean why not play him if you can. I don't even know if he's eligible to even be on the team but if he is I think we should play him and give him a chance.

- And if possible try to make the defense more defensive, even if that means trading Rielly.

- I don't think Gabriel is amazing but I think he's okay enough to play on the fourth line and that "Goon" presence is something we need in the lineup on a nightly basis, just to intimidate other teams and let them know that if they want things to get scrappy we can. I think with him and Simmonds we should be okay in that regard.

 

[TMLisSRYinGerman]

It we trust cap friendly we got about 870.000 cap space left... So without a trade that's about it and we need Bunting and Robertson or another surprise player in the top6.

 

[Bellefour20]

I bet you the Leafs will win a round and half of the people on this board will be like, the boys did it.....
The goal is to Win the Cup and not to make the playoffs or win a round.
I don't have faith in Dubas and Keefe anymore bc they are fairweather GM and coach, Keefe panics whenever the going gets tough. Pretty sure if JT was not injured, he would have put him on LW with AM and Marner in Game 6 and 7, and prey for that line to work.

During the dark years, more than half my life, the goal of this team seemed to be to just make the playoffs. If you set the goal at making the playoffs, you never will. If you set the goal at winning the first round, you never will. You have to set the goal way past the hump in order to get over it.

 

[Gabriel426]

During the dark years, more than half my life, the goal of this team seemed to be to just make the playoffs. If you set the goal at making the playoffs, you never will. If you set the goal at winning the first round, you never will. You have to set the goal way past the hump in order to get over it.

Completely agree. This should have a contender mentality, say what we want about the Bruins but they have that contender mentality where they are always tough to play against in the playoffs.
Look at Mack, he said he didn’t win anything and was pissed about it while some of our guys were, it was just luck, we had great looks….no passion whatsoever in the end of season presser or the post game presser, it seemed like it is just another regular season loss. You can see some of them are just used to losing to a point that let’s just get this presser over with….that’s not a good sign at all.

 

[Gabriel426]

i seriously don't get the pessimism on these boards. people need to chill out

whats with the doom and gloom, we are bringing back basically the same dcore and goaltending from a team that was top 5 to 7 defensive stats all year. there is no "probablity" of this team being great defensively again. every other top team in the east lost an important dman and we didnt lose anything.
and please i dont want to hear any bullshit about a 13min a night sheltered dman that was super overrated and pretend like he was the key member of this dcore being good.


sure offense needs a shift and we can go on and on and on about peoples opinions about the offense .... but based on the Dcore and goaltending alone i like it.

Pretty much the exact same opening roster minus Hyman.
Yet our playoff roster was much better and still couldn’t win a round.
Wonder how this team will perform in the same division with Cup finalists, Bruins and Panthers. Luckily they play Wings and Sabres 8 times.
Winning a round or making the playoffs is not the Goal, winning the Cup is the Goal.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

i seriously don't get the pessimism on these boards. people need to chill out

whats with the doom and gloom, we are bringing back basically the same dcore and goaltending from a team that was top 5 to 7 defensive stats all year. there is no "probablity" of this team being great defensively again. every other top team in the east lost an important dman and we didnt lose anything.
and please i dont want to hear any bullshit about a 13min a night sheltered dman that was super overrated and pretend like he was the key member of this dcore being good.


sure offense needs a shift and we can go on and on and on about peoples opinions about the offense .... but based on the Dcore and goaltending alone i like it.

I think it's just being realistic.

It's one thing for Tampa to say "we are bringing back our core" and another for the Leafs to say it. One core is proven. The other is a proven loser.

This is a team that lost one core forward (Tavares) and choked as soon as the pressure ramped up. In fact, there are no guarantees they will be healthy next playoffs either and it's clear they can't handle anything short of perfection healthwise. There's no playoff-hardened depth to cover for their injuries.

While it had to happen, they have also lost Hyman so the top 6 looks even worse.

Most of the players being added to the lineup are newbies (some mix of Sandin, Robertson, Bunting, Liljegren, & maybe Anderson/Brooks). Very talented but also unreliable in the playoffs. It's rare for a rookie/sophomore to do well in the playoffs. Most just try to stay afloat without getting burned (Sandin was a great example against the Habs). I'm sure they'll add a somewhat decent forward before the start of the season but is that enough? Perhaps for the regular season but it's doubtful that's enough for a cup run.

They're also playing in a playoff-ready division that will be very tough to get through when the games become serious. Those teams elevate their game when it matters the most.

I hope the team proves me wrong but it's not looking good right now.

 

[Le Cobra]

Im more excited for the Kraken's roster to be honest. Chicago will make the playoffs again on the back of MAF. Tampa will win a 3rd consecutive cup and Leafs will be eliminated in the first round by Boston for the 70th time

 

[Stonehands1990]

It we trust cap friendly we got about 870.000 cap space left... So without a trade that's about it and we need Bunting and Robertson or another surprise player in the top6.

That’s with 23 players on the roster. If you strip it down to 20 we have a bit over 3 million

 

[The90]

Team looks fairly similar to me. Bit pieces moved around minus Hyman. 34 and 16 should be good enough to not need a Hyman on their line to succeed.

Gally looked good but he scored at a replaceable top 6 pace. I'm sure they could get him back on a reasonable deal if they wanted. Unless I missed him signing somewhere.

Foligno was here for like 10 games, and was injured anyways so it's not like we're going to miss him.

They definitely need some growth from players, ie Robertson, or Bunting to come in and impress.

Growth is the big thing here I think. If one or all of Sandin, Robertson, or Liljegren take the next step the depth is pretty good. If not…

 

[rumman]

Mr.


Mr. Analytics playing Moneyball looking for diamonds at the bottom of the dumpster. Seriously this wreck can't be fixed in one offseason. That is how bad stick boy has f***ed up this team.

One more season……….

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

RITCHIE - MATTHEWS - MARNER

BUNTING - TAVARES - NYLANDER

KERFOOT - KAMPF - SIMMONDS

MIKHEYEV - - SPEZZA - - GABRIEL

RIELLY - BRODIE

MUZZIN - - HOLL

SANDIN - LILJIGREN/GUDBRANSON

CAMPBELL/MRAZEK

 

[francis246]

Ritchie - Matthews - Marner
Amirov - Tavares - Nylander
Bunting - Spezza - ????????
Gabriel - Kampf - Simmonds

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Hutton - Sandin

Campbell
Mrazek

- Trade Kerfoot, Mikheyev, Engvall. Get Ritchie. Sign a decent two way forward (RW) for the third line, or use a prospect or someone on the marlies.

- I know Amirov is young and still developing, but I mean with this roster and the pickups we've made so far he has a lot more offensive upside then all of them so I mean why not play him if you can. I don't even know if he's eligible to even be on the team but if he is I think we should play him and give him a chance.

- And if possible try to make the defense more defensive, even if that means trading Rielly.

- I don't think Gabriel is amazing but I think he's okay enough to play on the fourth line and that "Goon" presence is something we need in the lineup on a nightly basis, just to intimidate other teams and let them know that if they want things to get scrappy we can. I think with him and Simmonds we should be okay in that regard.

Amirov cannot play in the NHL this year, he's under contract with the KHL still.

 

[Ashdown2]

I think it's just being realistic.

It's one thing for Tampa to say "we are bringing back our core" and another for the Leafs to say it. One core is proven. The other is a proven loser.

This is a team that lost one core forward (Tavares) and choked as soon as the pressure ramped up. In fact, there are no guarantees they will be healthy next playoffs either and it's clear they can't handle anything short of perfection healthwise. There's no playoff-hardened depth to cover for their injuries.

While it had to happen, they have also lost Hyman so the top 6 looks even worse.

Most of the players being added to the lineup are newbies (some mix of Sandin, Robertson, Bunting, Liljegren, & maybe Anderson/Brooks). Very talented but also unreliable in the playoffs. It's rare for a rookie/sophomore to do well in the playoffs. Most just try to stay afloat without getting burned (Sandin was a great example against the Habs). I'm sure they'll add a somewhat decent forward before the start of the season but is that enough? Perhaps for the regular season but it's doubtful that's enough for a cup run.

They're also playing in a playoff-ready division that will be very tough to get through when the games become serious. Those teams elevate their game when it matters the most.

I hope the team proves me wrong but it's not looking good right now.

dooom and glooomm lol .. i am usually the super pessimistic one but goddamn its like a virus spreading on these boards.

look good team lose in the playoffs , it happens EVERY year.
Florida last again in the first round last year AGAIN and everyone is still loving their team... meanwhile they lost their star goalie, second line center top 4 dman. you can literally do a side by side comparison between these 2 teams and someone EVERYONE is loving the panthers and hating the leafs.
why because they have a 28 year old huberdeau and 25 year old barkov? while the leafs have a 23 year old matthews and marner. our dcore and goaltending is the same as the one that finished top 6 in all categories last year, what's the problem ? because we don't have a random unknown in carter V that will save the teams depth and score 20+ goals, are they expecting spencer knight to become a top 5 goalie his first year out ?? everyone is already penciling Florida as the best team in the division ... how exactly ?
also every other top 4 team in this division lost GIGANTIC peices and yet the leafs wont make the playoffs ? in what world ?

also its not like we got swept and fizzled out like the oilers, who AGAIN everyone is loving and another example of a team that accomplished nothing and somehow is getting all the love.


people need to chill the hell out. the amount of negative is palpable. we went from cheering on our prospects to shitting on them. This pisses me off the most, sure you can be negative to the team but you need to be a heartless ass to not cheer for 18-19 year old kids.


anyways getting back on topic. The team is still 3 months away from opening day why are we making depth charts this early ?? than being said the team doesnt suck, like i have to keep mentioning its the same Dcore and goaltending that was dominant .. top 6 finish in almost all defensive stats last year.
for the offense, you all need to go back and check you horrid starting lineup with thornton, vesey, in the top 6, barabanov, simmonds, kerfoot, all miscast. sure we lost hyman but i feel the team structure is better with a pure 3C , a much better LW than vesey in the top 6 , no thornton to kill the PP and any line he is on, simmonds pushed to the 4th line.
finally having a good shutdown line with envgvall-kampf-mik is an underrated change ...

 

[Mess]

Pretty much the exact same opening roster minus Hyman.
Yet our playoff roster was much better and still couldn’t win a round.
Wonder how this team will perform in the same division with Cup finalists, Bruins and Panthers. Luckily they play Wings and Sabres 8 times.
Winning a round or making the playoffs is not the Goal, winning the Cup is the Goal.

Up to this point in time in terms of name recognition the Leafs have lost Hyman (EDM), Foligno (BOS), Bogosian (TB) Andersen (CAR) while Joe Thornton and Alex Galchenyuk remain UFAs.

To replace them on the NHL roster we have Michael Bunting LW/RW (ARI), David Kämpf (C) (CHI), Kurtis Gabriel RW (SJ) and Petr Mrazek G (CAR).

There is some optimism that some of those losses can be filled internally with Nic Robertson, Timothy Liljegren and Rasmus Sandin through promotion from with.

 

[Racer88]

Any lineup that has Marner and Matthews on the same line is a recipe for disaster. They need to be on their own line!!!!!