Leafs powerplay simply unacceptable given the amount of money on it

I'd most agree, although it's possible that the book is out on these guys, and teams know how to shut them down now. Too predictable, and don't move the puck fast enough. Part of that is of course a systems issue. But they were top three in the league for a few years there, and still have the same players... so there isn't any good reason they shouldn't continue that success. Too much talent back there. They really need to figure this out.
Ahhh yes, the dreaded 7th year slump.


Honestly, I think party of it is comfort and part of it coaching. This group's natural tendency is to slow down, and that isn't effective, which is what we often see in playoffs. Coaching can counteract a lot of that with the right focus and options, which we've seen. But even when this PP is successful, it doesn't look great to me. It relies on mistakes rather than creating them
 
For some fans the Leafs are basically an NBA starting five so of course you couldn’t introduce any radical change for even the experiment of it and commit to it.
No fan thinks of the Leafs as an "NBA starting five". Your "radical changes" are just misguided and counterproductive, and there has to be a better reason to make "radical changes" than just "experimenting" out of impatience.
 
No fan thinks of the Leafs as an "NBA starting five". Your "radical changes" are just misguided and counterproductive, and there has to be a better reason to make "radical changes" than just "experimenting" out of impatience.

This team and core is doing right now, exactly what they seem to do every year. The coaching staff does very little to correct any issues with the core by way of shifting players around etc. Special teams are unacceptable, 60min performances gone to shit. It's the same old tired core and Rielly who is on vacation this year.
 
This team and core is doing right now, exactly what they seem to do every year. The coaching staff does very little to correct any issues with the core by way of shifting players around etc. Special teams are unacceptable, 60min performances gone to shit. It's the same old tired core and Rielly who is on vacation this year.
This team, right now, is actually playing worse than they ever have in the Matthews era. We decided that we wanted some of those "radical changes", and all it did was make us worse. Surprise, surprise. Thank god for our core and goaltending carrying us and our special teams, or we'd be in real trouble.
 
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This team, right now, is actually playing worse than they ever have in the Matthews era. We decided that we wanted some of those "radical changes", and all it did was make us worse. Surprise, surprise. Thank god for our core and goaltending carrying us and our special teams, or we'd be in real trouble.

Accountability suggest the PP needs fixed first off. Either how they PP, The players on the PP or they fire the coach.

 
Accountability suggest the PP needs fixed first off. Either how they PP, The players on the PP or they fire the coach.
Over the past 6 years, our 1st unit has been one of the best units in the league. Edmonton's 1st unit has been a bit better, and you could maybe argue Tampa's by a hair, but that's about it. This year, the 1st unit is producing at a similar rate as the past 6 years. What's changed is that our 2nd unit has really fallen behind. I agree that we need it to be better, and that might mean changing the coach or players on it, but what's certainly not going to help is focusing on the wrong unit and players. A team is 20+ players. The solution to everything isn't blaming the 4-5 of them that are doing their job.
 
Over the past 6 years, our 1st unit has been one of the best units in the league. Edmonton's 1st unit has been a bit better, and you could maybe argue Tampa's by a hair, but that's about it. This year, the 1st unit is producing at a similar rate as the past 6 years. What's changed is that our 2nd unit has really fallen behind. I agree that we need it to be better, and that might mean changing the coach or players on it, but what's certainly not going to help is focusing on the wrong unit and players. A team is 20+ players. The solution to everything isn't blaming the 4-5 of them that are doing their job.

16th PP and 9th PK (Because of Stolarz and Woll make no mistake) isn't going to make a Championship team. Not when we get penalized 1/3 more then most teams.

AM MM WN JT MR as a PP make over half the freaking cap and can't make it into the top half of PPs.

Unreal
 
16th PP and 9th PK (Because of Stolarz and Woll make no mistake) isn't going to make a Championship team. Not when we get penalized 1/3 more then most teams.

AM MM WN JT MR as a PP make over half the freaking cap and can't make it into the top half of PPs.

Unreal
Nobody passes the puck along the perimeter better than our #1 PP unit.
 
Nobody passes the puck along the perimeter better than our #1 PP unit.
Nobody does nothing with regards to demonstrating accountability for top players and staff then the Leafs either. In Toronto you can take nights off, weeks off. Flip off the media asking legit questions, blame the fans and the same fans can't grasp why we don't win.

Reaves is the poster child for lack of accountability.
 
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16th PP and 9th PK (Because of Stolarz and Woll make no mistake) isn't going to make a Championship team. Not when we get penalized 1/3 more then most teams.
AM MM WN JT MR as a PP make over half the freaking cap and can't make it into the top half of PPs.
See.. You've identified an issue, but you're still pointing at the wrong players, even though it's been explained pretty clearly to you. Those top players make one of the best PP units in the world, including this year. It's the second unit dragging our overall results down to the middle.
 
Nobody does nothing with regards to demonstrating accountability for top players and staff then the Leafs either. In Toronto you can take nights off, weeks off. Flip off the media asking legit questions, blame the fans and the same fans can't grasp why we don't win.

Reaves is the poster child for lack of accountability.
I can't blame Reaves. They signed him to a ridiculous contract and when there are not many takers, why go looking for a fight and risk taking one on the beak like Miller did against Schenn.
 
See.. You've identified an issue, but you're still pointing at the wrong players, even though it's been explained pretty clearly to you. Those top players make one of the best PP units in the world, including this year. It's the second unit dragging our overall results down to the middle.
How many minutes does our 2nd unit get on the PP compared to PP1. Is there a reason why PP1 needs 60million dollars on it? Seems like an entitlement issue to me or accountability.

They can't split it up? No changes? Just the same mid pack slow predictable perimeter PP.

Not a good look.

If it's not the players it's the coach. If it's not the coach it's the players. If it's neither just quit hockey
 
How many minutes does our 2nd unit get on the PP compared to PP1.
The 1st unit gets around double the amount of time as the 2nd unit.
I believe the split is currently 27 goals for the 1st unit, and 3 for the 2nd unit.
That is 9 times the goals, with 2 times the ice time.
Is there a reason why PP1 needs 60million dollars on it?
It doesnt have 60 million on it. Even with all our highest paid players combined, it's 54m. And they actually haven't been together all that much this year, with the Matthews injury, and the Tavares injury, and Rielly being moved around and having his PP time cut down. Of our 221 total PP minutes, that group of 5 has only been together for 32 minutes. That's less than 15% of our time.

But the reason that teams put their best offensive players on their 1st PP unit is so that they get the most time in that situation.
They can't split it up? No changes?
They have made changes and tried different combinations. They've also tried to boost the second unit with Nylander and Marner, which helped the second unit get some of the few goals they have. But you also need secondary offensive depth (and the coaching) to step up. Destroying what's working in an attempt to boost what's not can easily just leave you worse off overall.
 
The best way to make the second unit as successful as the first unit is to have the first unit players play on the second unit.
Surprised they haven't figured that out yet.
 
The 1st unit gets around double the amount of time as the 2nd unit.
I believe the split is currently 27 goals for the 1st unit, and 3 for the 2nd unit.
That is 9 times the goals, with 2 times the ice time.

It doesnt have 60 million on it. Even with all our highest paid players combined, it's 54m. And they actually haven't been together all that much this year, with the Matthews injury, and the Tavares injury, and Rielly being moved around and having his PP time cut down. Of our 221 total PP minutes, that group of 5 has only been together for 32 minutes. That's less than 15% of our time.

But the reason that teams put their best offensive players on their 1st PP unit is so that they get the most time in that situation.

They have made changes and tried different combinations. They've also tried to boost the second unit with Nylander and Marner, which helped the second unit get some of the few goals they have. But you also need secondary offensive depth (and the coaching) to step up. Destroying what's working in an attempt to boost what's not can easily just leave you worse off overall.

Ok so who is to blame?

Savard?
Berube?
Treliving and Shanahan?

If it's not the players. PP2 can be shifted around as far as who is on it.
 
Ok so who is to blame?
Savard?
Berube?
Treliving and Shanahan?
If it's not the players. PP2 can be shifted around as far as who is on it.
It's a combination of the second unit players, the coaches, and Treliving. The coaching doesn't seem great, the second unit players should be able to do better than this, but we also don't have many alternatives to try because Treliving was more concerned with spending cap and roster spots on useless players like Reaves instead of offensive depth.
 
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It's a combination of the second unit players, the coaches, and Treliving. The coaching doesn't seem great, the second unit players should be able to do better than this, but we also don't have many alternatives to try because Treliving was more concerned with spending cap and roster spots on useless players like Reaves instead of offensive depth.

I would say fire Savard to send a message.
Dump Reaves to send a message.
Morgan would be on PP2

I would start with that
 
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I'm sorry, did I just read that the combination of the second unit players, the coaches, and Treliving are to blame for our impotent PP?
Yeah I just want to see where it goes haha. I don't mind firing Savard and burying Reaves at this point. Mo to pp2 seems like a good choice.
 
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I'm sorry, did I just read that the combination of the second unit players, the coaches, and Treliving are to blame for our impotent PP?
Same thing against Boston in the playoffs last year with the PP issues - it was all Treliving and the 2nd unit's fault that they went 1/23
:laugh:


Yeah I just want to see where it goes haha. I don't mind firing Savard and burying Reaves at this point. Mo to pp2 seems like a good choice.
Don't blame you at all bro. That level of delusion is legitimately entertaining.
 
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Blaming Reaves and his 1 second of PP ice time for the perceived struggles is certainly a level of delusion.
 
Same thing against Boston in the playoffs last year with the PP issues - it was all Treliving and the 2nd unit's fault that they went 1/23
:laugh:



Don't blame you at all bro. That level of delusion is legitimately entertaining.

I have grown to find out that the more you go along with it, the stronger the delusion gets. It's like iowaska, soon I will be consulting with the machine elves themselves.
 
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I have grown to find out that the more you go along with it, the stronger the delusion gets. It's like iowaska, soon I will be consulting with the machine elves themselves.
Not even gonna lie it's probably half of the reason I still come here nowadays. Any actual honest hockey talk seems secondary nowadays.
 
I'm sorry, did I just read that the combination of the second unit players, the coaches, and Treliving are to blame for our impotent PP?
Blaming the things that are actually responsible. What a crazy idea, eh?
Blaming Reaves and his 1 second of PP ice time for the perceived struggles is certainly a level of delusion.
I don't think anybody is blaming Reaves for his PP contributions. People are blaming Treliving for wasting cap and roster spots on useless players like Reaves that are incapable of contributing to a PP, which limits the alternative options we could have to try and fix the 2nd PP unit.
 

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