Leafs powerplay simply unacceptable given the amount of money on it

[LeafsNet]

It’s the entry that gets me….those back passes absolutely infuriate me. Dump it in a chase or smash through.

This pack pass nonsense almost never works and always wastes time.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

If you play them together for longer than a minute than you can maximize their combined ice time. If they are separated the max is two minutes.

I think the answer is a new blueprint but still having Matty and Willy on the sidewalls. Maybe go:

Knies
Willy-X-Matty
OEL

JT or Marner take the X and they max out minutes, or JT and Marner take the sidewalls on PP2 and PP1 has to earn the extra minutes.

How would you set em up and split time?

PP1

Knies
Marner-Domi-Matthews
OEL

PP2

McMann
Nylander-Pacioretty-Tavares
Rielly

Marner on the flank for a one timer isn't optimal.

But him and Nylander are the only two right shot forwards on the team and the objective was to split Nylander away from Matthews. Marner's got a credible enough shot that I think it would work better than what they have been doing with him out in no man's land along the half wall lobbing wristers from up near the blue line hoping for a tip. Marner is a better puck distributor than Nylander so I think he would be better flanking Matthews.

Time can be split more or less evenly with adjustments made depending on which unit is producing better.

 

[Mulletman]

Targeting Laine next year would be the answer to all powerplay problems. Plus it would piss off Montreal too. Laine could break the single season record for most powerplay goals by a Canadiens player this year if he scores another 11 goals on the powerplay. And Canadiens doesn't have anybody as good as Marner passing the puck...

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Whether it’s Auston missing or John, the PP getting hot when one of the Core Four is out tells me that they can’t be on the same PP when they’re all healthy. It just doesn’t work.

 

[wingman75]

Whether it’s Auston missing or John, the PP getting hot when one of the Core Four is out tells me that they can’t be on the same PP when they’re all healthy. It just doesn’t work.

I don't disagree.

However, last night was the first time where I saw an actual change in the plan. They were shooting from the point with a purpose, creating havoc and generating either goals or momentum from it. This was always the play... the nonsensical passing around the perimeter was pointless. Now, if you are able to mix in the point shots (do not have to be bombs), then you get the PK scrambling a bit, you can open up the flanks for the shooters.

The issue of this being an absolute shite passing group still limits their potential imo.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I don't disagree.

However, last night was the first time where I saw an actual change in the plan. They were shooting from the point with a purpose, creating havoc and generating either goals or momentum from it. This was always the play... the nonsensical passing around the perimeter was pointless. Now, if you are able to mix in the point shots (do not have to be bombs), then you get the PK scrambling a bit, you can open up the flanks for the shooters.

The issue of this being an absolute shite passing group still limits their potential imo.

They also did it on Thursday, with Willy taking the shot, Knies screening, and Matty burying the rebound.

 

[wingman75]

They also did it on Thursday, with Willy taking the shot, Knies screening, and Matty burying the rebound.

Berube has spoken recently of generating more shots on the PP, and there was a stat shown recently showing how their shots per PP went from something like 5.2 down to ~2 or less even.

Fits with the eye test of them just passing around the perimeter. Hopefully this is the start of something that carries forward!

 

[darrylsittler27]

Not much more we can say on this. Toronto is paying 5 guys so much money we have to live or die by them as they are now post prime. This year has to be their last chance. Winning one round does not justify this structure. It has never been used before with success. It creates imbalances.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Targeting Laine next year would be the answer to all powerplay problems. Plus it would piss off Montreal too. Laine could break the single season record for most powerplay goals by a Canadiens player this year if he scores another 11 goals on the powerplay. And Canadiens doesn't have anybody as good as Marner passing the puck...

But he also has to play even strength from time to time. He can't. He doesn't. He has almost been on as many teams as Domi,

 

[Captain Crunch]

Marner and Rielly on the ice: 10.64 PP goals per 60 minutes
Marner and Rielly not on the ice: 0 PP goals per 60 minutes

Maybe if we weren't trying so hard to neuter offensively creativity at even strength, we'd have a bit more offensive creativity when it came time for the PP.

PP1 didn't stink. In fact, we've scored PP goals at a higher rate with Tavares on the ice than anybody else this year.

Maybe Berube knows that this is the style of play that wins when it counts, which is the playoffs.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Not much more we can say on this. Toronto is paying 5 guys so much money we have to live or die by them as they are now post prime. This year has to be their last chance. Winning one round does not justify this structure. It has never been used before with success. It creates imbalances.

Toronto Maple Leafs - where players get paid because they have very good regular season stats, but can’t get it done in the playoffs where it counts the most!

 

[Captain Crunch]

They tried that a couple of years ago, putting Willy on the second unit. The result was the PP1 got worse and PP2 got better, but I don't recall much if any net change.

I think the problem is more the net front presence and the lack of quick passes.

Let’s not forget about having a legitimate PP quarterback at the point who teams have to respect because of his shot.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Maybe Berube knows that this is the style of play that wins when it counts, which is the playoffs.

This style of play is not any more effective in the playoffs. If anything, it's less.

 

[thusk]

This style of play is not any more effective in the playoffs. If anything, it's less.

Winnong one goal game
take lead and keep it

win % with lead after 1
2023-2024 12th,
2022-2023 15 th
this year #1

win % lead after 2
2023-2024 14th
2022-2023 19th
this year #1

scoring 1st win %
2023-2024 21 th
2022-2023 16th
this season 3rd

1 goal game win%
2023-2024 10th
2022-2023 8th
this season #1

So if you're thinking than being able to take a lead and been able keep it even on close 1 goal game is not a kind of system more effective in playoff...

 

[Dekes For Days]

Winnong one goal game take lead and keep it

win % with lead after 1
2023-2024 12th,
2022-2023 15 th
this year #1

win % lead after 2
2023-2024 14th
2022-2023 19th
this year #1

scoring 1st win %
2023-2024 21 th
2022-2023 16th
this season 3rd

1 goal game win%
2023-2024 10th
2022-2023 8th
this season #1

So if you're thinking than being able to take a lead and been able keep it even on close 1 goal game is not a kind of system more effective in playoff...

You're not describing a system. You're listing overlapping trivia facts, that are more representative of good goaltending and a strong OT record (in a small sample of less than half of our partial season), than our system or playoff success. We've had similar and even better winning percentages when scoring first before, in seasons when we also score first a lot more.

For the record, we're actually pretty bad at taking a lead. We're 21st in the league at scoring first, on pace for the second worst season of the Matthews era. And our 23rd ranked defensive results are certainly not helping us hold any leads.

 

[therealkoho]

It is crazy how crappy they are on the PP. Berube need to start sitting members of the core in the stands for a game or two or start bag skating them till they puke.
It’s time for him to try and take control back from this core group

If Chief ever started treating them harshly, they would just go over his head and demand that Kyle do something about it. Not wishing to upset anyone Kyle would immediately issue a statement that Berube was a troglodyte and was stuck in the past and really need to take some sensitivity training and possibly some anger management training. He would then call Bieber and have him get to Toronto Pronto, and suit up for a practice and calm the most sensitive in the gang down. Then maybe we can get back to playing some hockey.

In a related move Treliving has announced that Bieber has been signed and will slot in as 3C. Matthews was overheard saying that he feels a Rocket coming on!

 

[Al14]

It’s the entry that gets me….those back passes absolutely infuriate me. Dump it in a chase or smash through.

This pack pass nonsense almost never works and always wastes time.

Unfortunately, the back pass is now a standard across the NHL. It's even being used in European leagues now.

When I was still coaching, the American based teams we played were already using the stretch pass because U.S. hockey had already ditched offside over the centre red line. The American coaches were infuriated when our linesmen called offside when they passed the puck from within their D-zone to a forward standing just outside our blue line.

It wasn't long before the NHL, and Hockey Canada, dropped offsides using the centre red line too.

NHL hockey is mostly controlled south of our border these days.

 

[therealkoho]

It's pretty funny that everybody is attacking the 1st unit, when our real issue this year is that our 2nd unit has scored a grand total of 1 PP goal the whole year (and even that was while Marner was out there).

Marner is 2nd in the league in PP points, and 3rd in PP points per 60. The results do speak for themselves.

Cmon Dekes, Mess thought he was being really clever with that poignant little jab. Now you've gone and popped his balloon!

 

[Mulletman]

But he also has to play even strength from time to time. He can't. He doesn't. He has almost been on as many teams as Domi,

Laine has never played with anybody close as good as Marner when it comes to setting up players. A healthy Matthews and Laine playing on the Leafs would most likely combine for 125+ goals per season! Now that would be exciting!

 

[Racer88]

For those claiming the problem is the second PP unit I would argue if it even needed an argument that the first PP unit gets the majority of the Time each PP.
They also get first crack at the PP so on the rare occasion they do score the 2nd unit does not even get a chance.
Let’s reverse the roles and see what happens

 

[thusk]

You're not describing a system. You're listing overlapping trivia facts, that are more representative of good goaltending and a strong OT record (in a small sample of less than half of our partial season), than our system or playoff success. We've had similar and even better winning percentages when scoring first before, in seasons when we also score first a lot more.

For the record, we're actually pretty bad at taking a lead. We're 21st in the league at scoring first, on pace for the second worst season of the Matthews era. And our 23rd ranked defensive results are certainly not helping us hold any leads.

Keeping lead resulting of a good ot record?!?!?!

number of ot win when scoring 1st ? 0
number of ot win leading after 1 ? 1
leading after 2 ? 0

Number of time leading after 1 ?
17 they lost 1 of those game ... 60% of leafs regular win

after 2 ?
20 all resulting of a regular win. Its 80 % of leafs regular win

And no its not just resulting of goaltending, if you just really watching hockey... You easily see leafs are just much better to defend and gave up much less scoring chance to their opponent when its time to protect a lead.

Yeah scoring 1st a little more often can be nice but a least if they are able to keep it when he did it, that's still drastically raise chance to win come playoff.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Keeping lead resulting of a good ot record?!?!?!

number of ot win when scoring 1st ? 0
number of ot win leading after 1 ? 1
leading after 2 ? 0

Number of time leading after 1 ?
17 they lost 1 of those game ... 60% of leafs regular win

after 2 ?
20 all resulting of a regular win. Its 80 % of leafs regular win

And no its not just resulting of goaltending, if you just really watching hockey... You easily see leafs are just much better to defend and gave up much less scoring chance to their opponent when its time to protect a lead.

Yeah scoring 1st a little more often can be nice but a least if they are able to keep it when he did it, that's still drastically raise chance to win come playoff.

I think you missed the point. That style of play doesn't work as well for Marner, so for dekes it can't be effective, regardless of statistical evidence.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I don't want to hear a single person try and blame Savard before they do that. How many years now with how many different coaches, strategies, etc and the PP has been unacceptably awful every year.

The PP lost them their series last year when they went 4%. What have they shown to suggest the PP won't be a detriment in any playoff series again this year?

The thing that really is unacceptable is we have a Hart and Rocket winner, one of the best players and passers in the league, a guy who recently was top 3 in the NHL in goals, and other star talent and yet they can't even consistently gain the zone nevermind generate chances.

Like I have stated each guy has his own weaknesses which show up in playoff hokey when game get 10% faster/more physical and time and space on puck is severely reduced that our skills guys get shut down .. Willy doesn't because he is our best skater .. Rielly with wheels used to be able to outskate trouble but not anymore

 

[thusk]

I think you missed the point. That style of play doesn't work as well for Marner, so for dekes it can't be effective, regardless of statistical evidence.

Marner had just been one of the leader of this new system?!?! Defence 1st attack 2nd is exactly what Marner doing for years and the perfect player for Berube system...so not sure to understand

 

[notDatsyuk]

Marner had just been one of the leader of this new system?!?! Defence 1st attack 2nd is exactly what Marner doing for years and the perfect player for Berube system...so not sure to understand

I agree with you. The problem is that it doesn't work for him in the playoffs, so for dekes it doesn't work.