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Leafs not drafting well ?

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keonsbitterness said:
I get your point, but skill in sports most often refers to proficiency with the puck or ball -- skating, stick-handling, shooting, and passing in the case of hockey. Those other skills/attributes you mention are obviously important, but generally harder to project in teenage prospects. Guy Lafleur, one of the most prolific junior players ever, was considered a bust after his first three years before he found the inner drive to become a star. How does a scout account for that?
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Viewable by watching.

Not by stat collation.

Whether the "skill" carries over from one league to another is a judgment and in the eye of the beholder.

That's exactly why they send the scouts to the games, after all.

If you've ever sat with a hockey scout, they can give you incredible insights into the game.

I was at a Soo/Bulldogs game next to Philly scouts (Dubas coincidentally in the next section over - nice guy actually) and they truly opened my eyes to some things about the game.
 
I'm not sure what everyone's problem is with our drafting of late.

Yes historically we sucked at drafting. Dubas has done very well though. 2018 is already decent, Sandin looking like a star. 2019 is an A+ just because of getting Roberson with a late 2nd, and there is still more to come from that draft. 2020 was nothing short of stellar. Several potential NHL'ers on the way, Athletic graded it an "A" and our prospect pool is actually quite deep and fairly well regarded around the league. Considering the high number of draft picks and Marlies players that have graduated to the big club over the past few years, we have a better prospect pool than we should.

Also... hindsight is always 20/20. It's easy to look back in time and say, oh you missed out on Aho or someone else... so did alot of other GM's and scouting departments. Nobody has the benefit of hindsight at the time... the drafting moves and choices were shrewd and well regarded in the industry for the most part through Dubas tenure.
 
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NewEraGM said:
Skill is more important that size. Point, Caufield, Byron, Suzuki, Gourde all had good playoffs. A big man with speed doesn’t get you much if they don’t have skill.
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It takes a good mix to build a team .. that is my point .. we already have enough skill .. we are lacking big fast tough men .. but our prospects are all similar backgrounds with skill .. you will never get a big fast man from Sandin or Robertson .. when you draft you need to dradft different attributes ,. not everyone focus on skill .. lots of skill guys won't develop and be fast enough to make NHL even if they can spin in a phone booth ..
 


This is bad. I don't know the solution, but the Foligno deal was very bad. So was paying a 1st to a team to take Marleau.

Perhaps Foligno signs in TOR for 1 year? That might lighten things a bit...
 
TDotMassive said:
I'm not sure what everyone's problem is with our drafting of late.

Yes historically we sucked at drafting. Dubas has done very well though. 2018 is already decent, Sandin looking like a star. 2019 is an A+ just because of getting Roberson with a late 2nd, and there is still more to come from that draft. 2020 was nothing short of stellar. Several potential NHL'ers on the way, Athletic graded it an "A" and our prospect pool is actually quite deep and fairly well regarded around the league. Considering the high number of draft picks and Marlies players that have graduated to the big club over the past few years, we have a better prospect pool than we should.

Also... hindsight is always 20/20. It's easy to look back in time and say, oh you missed out on Aho or someone else... so did alot of other GM's and scouting departments. Nobody has the benefit of hindsight at the time... the drafting moves and choices were shrewd and well regarded in the industry for the most part through Dubas tenure.
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Sandin and robertson have been massively overhyped.
 
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sxvnert said:
Sandin and robertson have been massively overhyped.
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You're entitled to your opinion, but I fully disagree for numerous reasons, as does the majority of the hockey world.

Sandin will be a legit top-4 D and Robertson a legit top-6 winger. I won't hype them beyond that yet, but those are still great results for those drafting slots. Both areas of need as well.
 
SIMMONS SAYS: Getting his Jays home is a big victory for Mark Shapiro | Toronto Sun

For reasons not completely explained, the Leafs have virtually ignored drafting and developing goaltenders in the Brendan Shanahan era. They have selected Zachary Bouthillier, Ian Scott and Joseph Woll in recent years. The team hasn’t picked an NHL goalie of any substance since James Reimer in 2006. The only goalie chosen by the Leafs who turned out to be upper-echelon the past 20 years: A guy named Tuukka Rask … The final four goaltenders in the NHL — Andrei Vasilevskiy, Carey Price, Semyon Varlamov and Marc-Andre Fleury — all were first-round picks … Tampa Bay won back-to-back Stanley Cups aided by some terrific drafting after the first round. They wound up with Nikita Kucherov, Brayden Point, Anthony Cirelli, Alex Killorn, Ondrej Palat and Ross Colton all picked after Round 1. When Chicago won Stanley Cups in the previous decade, they had Keith, Niklas Hjalmarsson, Corey Crawford, Dustin Byfuglien, Brandon Saad, Dave Bolland, Andrew Shaw and Bryan Bickell, among others, picked after Round 1. The Leafs current picks after Round 1: Travis Dermott, Adam Brooks and Pierre Engvall …
 
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Most GMs get fired before their picks have a chance to make much of an impact, and then the next guy gets the credit (or blame). We'll see with Dubas.

Sandin, Robertson and Amirov seem like good picks so far but nobody is really a guaranteed top 6/4 NHLer... I'm not even sure their floors are very high either given that they all have flaws.
 
Sniper99 said:
ok so 40 year olds dont play fortnite, but they sure as hell play Call of Duty and Halo. Dubas kill/death ratio probably just as bad as his drafting
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Are you in your late-30's and still playing video games?
 
Leafs drafting has been okay.

Maybe no home-runs, other than top 10 picks.

Maybe something yet to come from Lamoriello's picks?

Start ranking Dubas picks next year.

Burke drafted Rielly and Kadri, and well Schenn who was supposed to be a very good defenseman.
 
ULF_55 said:
Leafs drafting has been okay.

Maybe no home-runs, other than top 10 picks.

Maybe something yet to come from Lamoriello's picks?

Start ranking Dubas picks next year.

Burke drafted Rielly and Kadri, and well Schenn who was supposed to be a very good defenseman.
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The Leafs have nailed most of their high picks which is the most important thing IMO. If you miss on your top-10 picks the odds are you will not have a good team. For example, look at all of the misses Buffalo has had in the top 15. Unfortunately the Leafs have been mediocre at best after that. They've had the odd good pick but they haven't drafted impact players in rounds 2-7 so far the way some teams have (for example, Tampa with many players, Chicago with DeBrincat, Saad, etc. Connor Brown, Andreas Johnsson, Travis Dermott are some nice finds, but I doubt it's better than average.
 
Dubas' drafting since 2018 can't really be declared a success at this point because most of the drafted players have yet to even graduate to full time AHL duties, let alone demonstrate NHL viability to any meaningful degree. A success is really declared based on WJC performances or name recognition or favorable prospect write ups because we've seen prospects from previous regimes get to this level of development and even further, yet didn't become NHL players.

To date we've gotten 43 games of NHL service out of Robertson and Sandin out of the 2018, 2019 and 2020 drafts. It's just too early.
 
sxvnert said:
Sandin and robertson have been massively overhyped.
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Really...... i love both picks. 2 years from now will give a better idea how good they might be. I expect solid defensive play from them firstly.Then it’s years to see how it all cones together. The optics from what little playing time these guys have in the pros looks ok
 
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The original article is right about lack of success on goalie development , but very few teams use a first round pick on a goalie even if they are highly rated
 
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