Leafs need to make a trade.

[Fogelhund]

Sure. But as an example why you don't rush trades. Lily has 3 goals since joining the Sharks. All we got was a 3rd, a 6th and a guy who cleared waivers. Another bad , rushed trade. Oh and by the way our defense is old so I expect a quick decay next season .

I was a big Lilly fan, but he just wasn't getting it done here. Congrats to him for the opportunity with the Sharks, and I hope he has a decent career. Robertson will probably do far better elsewhere too... but that we moved on from them, doesn't make it a bad trade. Healthy scratch players, just don't return that much.

 

[Fogelhund]

Holmberg I'd like to see in a reduced role, but he is better than Lorentz too.

Better at what? Cardio?

Same number of points in less time, and less opportunity, Lorentz has better possession numbers, bigger, far more physical (62 hits to 8)... Lorentz is exactly what you want on a checking, cycle, forechecking 4th line. Yes, Lorentz is a good fourth liner... and he is playing on the fourth line, where he is good at his role.

How are you determining Dewar is better defensively? We give up less goals with Lorentz than Dewar. Lorentz expected goals is better... And.. Dewar on ice goals for... .ZERO.

Holmberg isn't really a fourth line player... he's a third line guy, who isn't good enough for the third line... everyone needs a role, and unfortunately he isn't good enough at it, and likely isn't on the squad, or is the 13th guy.

 

[notbias]

Better at what? Cardio?

Same number of points in less time, and less opportunity, Lorentz has better possession numbers, bigger, far more physical (62 hits to 8)... Lorentz is exactly what you want on a checking, cycle, forechecking 4th line. Yes, Lorentz is a good fourth liner... and he is playing on the fourth line, where he is good at his role.

How are you determining Dewar is better defensively? We give up less goals with Lorentz than Dewar. Lorentz expected goals is better... And.. Dewar on ice goals for... .ZERO.

Holmberg isn't really a fourth line player... he's a third line guy, who isn't good enough for the third line... everyone needs a role, and unfortunately he isn't good enough at it, and likely isn't on the squad, or is the 13th guy.

Based on history and not a small sample size where one player is being asked to play above his skillset.

This is like saying Benoit is a terrible bottom pairing D because he sucked in the top 4 last playoffs.

 

[Fogelhund]

Forgot he existed, agreed he can go too although he may not play all year anyway.

Jarnkrok... I doubt he plays, or is ready for some time.... I think you just keep him, and maybe he comes back for the playoffs, and is a useful spare part, in case of injury.

 

[Puckstuff]

Love the kid too... There is a lot to love about his game, but he just doesn't seem NHL ready offensively. I don't see any harm in him getting more AHL games, and getting his offensive game going. Maybe he gets another shot later in the year, and can bring a little more than he has so far.

I agree that Grebenkin will need to grow his game on the offensive side, and for a top 9 role, he wouldn't be my first choice. But if I'm looking at a pure 4th line role for 7-8 minutes a night come playoff time I'll take Grebenkin and his size as my 4th line RW over a player like Jarnkrok as he fits the "role" better. And Grebs should be able to contribute something offensively at some point as well. Jarnkrok is a top 9 or bust player imo. I don't really need him on my 4th line.

 

[darrylsittler27]

He wasn't going to play here, can't see his value would have increased.

Actually we trash out own guys out of town when we should be pumping them up first.

I was a big Lilly fan, but he just wasn't getting it done here. Congrats to him for the opportunity with the Sharks, and I hope he has a decent career. Robertson will probably do far better elsewhere too... but that we moved on from them, doesn't make it a bad trade. Healthy scratch players, just don't return that much.

It's our approach. We lose patience, trash our guys and dump them undervalue. I thought Lily was worth a 2nd or I hoped. Looks like San Jose will get at least that by TD.

 

[Fogelhund]

Based on history and not a small sample size where one player is being asked to play above his skillset.

This is like saying Benoit is a terrible bottom pairing D because he sucked in the top 4 last playoffs.

Holmberg is a utility player, who isn't particularly good at anything.

Lorentz is a quality fourth liner.

------------------------------------

Holmberg might be better at filling in a spot on the second or third line, while contributing nothing much to that line... but Lorentz is EXACTLY what you want on a fourth line, while Holmberg doesn't do much there either. It's about players filling roles within the lineup.

The Benoit example is exactly the point here... when he's on his game, he's exactly what you want from a third pairing guy. Nobody would mistake him for a guy who should be playing above that, but as a third pairing guy.. yes.

Lorentz is what you want from your fourth line. Holmberg doesn't have the qualities for that line.

 

[ACC1224]

Actually we trash out own guys out of town when we should be pumping them up first.

Not sure how that would have been accomplished in this instance.
Lilijgren was passed by better players here and for what he made they couldn't afford to have him sit.

Some players are better suited to play on bad Teams, he seems like one of them.

 

[Fogelhund]

I agree that Grebenkin will need to grow his game on the offensive side, and for a top 9 role, he wouldn't be my first choice. But if I'm looking at a pure 4th line role for 7-8 minutes a night come playoff time I'll take Grebenkin and his size as my 4th line RW over a player like Jarnkrok as he fits the "role" better. And Grebs should be able to contribute something offensively at some point as well. Jarnkrok is a top 9 or bust player imo. I don't really need him on my 4th line.

To me Jarnkrok isn't even part of the equation for the 4th line. Like you suggest, players need to fill roles, and Jarnkrok is a poor fit for that. It comes down to should Grebenkin be there over Dewar, or an outside guy like Olivier.

I don't have the answer to that right now... Let's wait and see where Grebenkin's game is a few months from now. He'll go back to the Marlies, probably come back up... and then we can determine... plenty of time to sort this out.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Not sure how that would have been accomplished in this instance.
Lilijgren was passed by better players here and for what he made they couldn't afford to have him sit.

Some players are better suited to play on bad Teams, he seems like one of them.

I suspect Berube just didn't like him or want to work with him. I think Robertson is salvageable for at least a 2nd and is just snake bit.

 

[ACC1224]

To me Jarnkrok isn't even part of the equation for the 4th line. Like you suggest, players need to fill roles, and Jarnkrok is a poor fit for that. It comes down to should Grebenkin be there over Dewar, or an outside guy like Olivier.

I don't have the answer to that right now... Let's wait and see where Grebenkin's game is a few months from now. He'll go back to the Marlies, probably come back up... and then we can determine... plenty of time to sort this out.

I don't think Dewar is going anywhere, be surprised if he isn't in the lineup every night.
Seems like the kind of player a coach like Berube would love, same with Lorentz.

I suspect Berube just didn't like him or want to work with him. I think Robertson is salvageable for at least a 2nd and is just snake bit.

It's easier to to try and prop up a Robertson because of the salary.

Coaches like players they can trust. Keefe didn't trust him in the lineup either, not just Berube.
Even so, who should have sat for him? He was always outside looking in.

 

[Puckstuff]

To me Jarnkrok isn't even part of the equation for the 4th line. Like you suggest, players need to fill roles, and Jarnkrok is a poor fit for that. It comes down to should Grebenkin be there over Dewar, or an outside guy like Olivier.

I don't have the answer to that right now... Let's wait and see where Grebenkin's game is a few months from now. He'll go back to the Marlies, probably come back up... and then we can determine... plenty of time to sort this out.

Dewar hasn't really impressed me much. Grebenkin has 3 inches and 20+ pounds on Dewar. I feel Dewar is too small for fourth-line hockey in the playoffs, but a player like Reaves (although he has size) is a liability defensively. Grebenkin brings both the energy and toughness (he brings even more energy then Reaves), and he doesn’t sacrifice size, which Dewar lacks. He's kind of the middle ground between Dewar and Reaves, offering toughness and grit while also being responsible defensively.

 

[darrylsittler27]

I don't think Dewar is going anywhere, be surprised if he isn't in the lineup every night.
Seems like the kind of player a coach like Berube would love, same with Lorentz.


It's easier to to try and prop up a Robertson because of the salary.

Coaches like players they can trust. Keefe didn't trust him in the lineup either, not just Berube.
Even so, who should have sat for him? He was always outside looking in.

Oh it's too late but Murray and Robertson we need to demand more for. For example Murray could easily fetch a 3rd by TD.

 

[ACC1224]

Oh it's too late but Murray and Robertson we need to demand more for. For example Murray could easily fetch a 3rd by TD.

3rd would be good for Murray.
Not sure with Robertson, personally I think he'd be better served in Europe.
I always come away from watching him live thinking he isn't very good.

 

[ULF_55]

Not sure with Robertson, personally I think he'd be better served in Europe.
I always come away from watching him live thinking he isn't very good.

Trouble is minimum wage in NHL is probably higher than highest in Europe.
Who know if you are a star maybe you can make more, but Robertson is unlikely to ever be a star.

 

[ACC1224]

Trouble is minimum wage in NHL is probably higher than highest in Europe.
Who know if you are a star maybe you can make more, but Robertson is unlikely to ever be a star.

I'm sure he'd make more in Europe than the AHL.

 

[Sypher04]

I would be shocked if Robertson is still here come the deadline. I know he’s had some bad luck throughout the season, and glad for him that he scored a goal the other day, but the reality is we don’t have time to f*** around and wait for him to maybe figure it out.

This team, when healthy, has a ridiculously good top 6 that very very few can match against. The structure is solid. The D is performing well. The goalies are the story of the season. The PK is top 5, the powerplay needs to improve still but probably ends up top 10 by season end if I had to guess.

Once we are reasonably health, the third line is our Achilles heel.

I don’t think any of Robertson, Holmberg, Jarnkrok, or Kampf should be on this roster posted TDL if we’re serious about making a run.

 

[notbias]

Holmberg is a utility player, who isn't particularly good at anything.

But better than Lorentz at most things.

Lorentz is a quality fourth liner.

He has been average after the first five games.

Holmberg might be better at filling in a spot on the second or third line, while contributing nothing much to that line... but Lorentz is EXACTLY what you want on a fourth line, while Holmberg doesn't do much there either. It's about players filling roles within the lineup.

What do you want on the fourth line? Zero skill?

I don't think Lorentz is anything special.

The Benoit example is exactly the point here... when he's on his game, he's exactly what you want from a third pairing guy. Nobody would mistake him for a guy who should be playing above that, but as a third pairing guy.. yes.

He's our 6th/7th best D, he should be upgraded, just like Lorentz.

Lorentz is what you want from your fourth line. Holmberg doesn't have the qualities for that line.

You can repeat it as much as you want, but it doesn't make it true.

Lorentz played 7 minutes a night on Florida and not every game... that is how valuable he is on the 4th line, no one played less.

 

[CincoHolio]

I would be shocked if Robertson is still here come the deadline. I know he’s had some bad luck throughout the season, and glad for him that he scored a goal the other day, but the reality is we don’t have time to f*** around and wait for him to maybe figure it out.

This team, when healthy, has a ridiculously good top 6 that very very few can match against. The structure is solid. The D is performing well. The goalies are the story of the season. The PK is top 5, the powerplay needs to improve still but probably ends up top 10 by season end if I had to guess.

Once we are reasonably health, the third line is our Achilles heel.

I don’t think any of Robertson, Holmberg, Jarnkrok, or Kampf should be on this roster posted TDL if we’re serious about making a run.

What bad luck? Please don't say goal posts hit. Is not being good enough chalked up to bad luck now? The amount of excuses this guy gets.

 

[Sypher04]

What bad luck? Please don't say goal posts hit. Is not being good enough chalked up to bad luck now? The amount of excuses this guy gets.

It’s not really excuses. I’m just acknowledging he’s had a bit of bad luck, which he has. I still very clearly stated he’s not good enough.

 

[arso40]

Not sure how that would have been accomplished in this instance.
Lilijgren was passed by better players here and for what he made they couldn't afford to have him sit.

Some players are better suited to play on bad Teams, he seems like one of them.

Who passed him?

 

[Hellcat]

I was a big Lilly fan, but he just wasn't getting it done here. Congrats to him for the opportunity with the Sharks, and I hope he has a decent career. Robertson will probably do far better elsewhere too... but that we moved on from them, doesn't make it a bad trade. Healthy scratch players, just don't return that much.

I was not a fan but wish him well.

He's playing around 19 min a night in SJ, has 3 goals and 2 assists. 4 points in the first 4 games , 1 point in the 12 games since. He is a plus player on a shitty team...

Who passed him?

The defenders still on the team.

 

[ACC1224]

Who passed him?

Timmins for one. He directly affected Lilijgren the most.

 

[CincoHolio]

It’s not really excuses. I’m just acknowledging he’s had a bit of bad luck, which he has. I still very clearly stated he’s not good enough.

I hear ya, it's just that every player has that same bad luck so it doesn't make him special in any way. If anything, he's had the good fortune of injuries to players ahead of him on the depth chart, that has allowed him to play probably more than he should. He hasn't done much with that time and I suspect it will continue this way. Personally, I don't think he has the IQ nor the physique to be a difference maker on a contender.

 

[ULF_55]

I was not a fan but wish him well.

He's playing around 19 min a night in SJ, has 3 goals and 2 assists. 4 points in the first 4 games , 1 point in the 12 games since. He is a plus player on a shitty team...

Maybe ordered result incorrectly?
Only has 5 points, 3 goals 2 assists.