Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose to Minnesota and end January with a whimper

[IPS]

I fully agree they did. Others felt they played well. I was seeking advanced stats to maybe help me understand what they saw. It did not help... it does point out certain players performances though.

I will hold steady that Marner was trash. This team cannot win when he is anything less than average.

5-on-5 they were fine. Special teams were crap. We all saw that.

For a bit of understanding too - when a team goes down 2-0, it's natural that they should be the one to dominate the shot/puck control stats being that they're the team who has to come from behind. You can tell the team should have been pushing a lot harder than they did coming out in that 2nd.

 

[NVious]

This has been a bad team for 2 months now

A bit longer, the last dominant win we had vs a dominant team was 3-0 vs Vegas on November 20th, since then it's the usual Leafs, some great, some good, some bad, some horrendous.

Not really a serious team, but I doubt they make any changes.

As long as the team continues to sell jerseys based off of our popular stars and as long as the team is good, everyone is happy. The soft stars who don't have to do unpaid overtime (playoffs), the management who doesn't have to risk lower revenue for a while and the casuals who still think this core is some juggernaut.

 

[Al14]

Minny was missing Kaprizov who is 3x the player Tavares is today. They outworked the Leafs.

Every single other NHL team OUTWORKS our Leafs. I'm sick of it !!!

Our players KNOW that these teams have Ontario born players coming in to put on a show and they FAIL to match the other teams intensity.

I'm disgusted with the entire Leafs organization. Something should have been done to address our core for losing to Montreal and the CBJ !!! Instead, management just keeps giving the core more and more money and NOT getting anything back !!!

 

[therealkoho]

That was his brother. Nobody cares about Marcus.

Didn't watch the 3rd, so I didn't see the incident, truth be told I hear the name Foligno and it just brings up another bad deal made by Leafs management and I automatically think of Nick

Different Foligno. This is Marcus his brother Nick was a Leaf and plays for Chicago.

Yep got it

 

[wingman75]

For a bit of understanding too - when a team goes down 2-0, it's natural that they should be the one to dominate the shot/puck control stats being that they're the team who has to come from behind. You can tell the team should have been pushing a lot harder than they did coming out in that 2nd.

Absolutely, great point. Yes.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Pelley and Shanahan are 2 arrogant assholes who think fans will just keep gobbling up their shit product. They think there’s nothing wrong. The arena is dead because people are tired of this.

We make a shit ton of money. We sell jerseys. MLSE are excellent at their jobs.

 

[Racer88]

Every single other NHL team OUTWORKS our Leafs. I'm sick of it !!!

Our players KNOW that these teams have Ontario born players coming in to put on a show and they FAIL to match the other teams intensity.

I'm disgusted with the entire Leafs organization. Something should have been done to address our core for losing to Montreal and the CBJ !!! Instead, management just keeps giving the core more and more money and NOT getting anything back !!!

You are not wrong and not alone in this sentiment

 

[therealkoho]

Do we really have to shelter our top 2 forwards from 1 guy? It just takes 1 guy to shut our top 2 forwards down?

Well the one guy is playing like shite, and the other guy gets frustrated and just shuts down, figuring if that guy won't get off his arse why should I.

Viscious circle really

They need to split them up, and that doesn't necessarily mean that Will automaticallu hoes on Matthews flank, something more like this

McMann Tavares Marner

Knies Matthews Pacioretty/Domi

Robbie/Jarnkrok Minten Will/Jarnkrok

Lorentz Kampf Domi/Dewar/Reaves

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I'm starting to wonder if the issue with the team is Matthews. Take a look at how they played in his absence.
45-24-2 without him over the years. They worked hard, and had a decent PP.

In the 36 games he's played this year, we've scored 16 goals on the PP.
In the 15 games he didn't play, we scored 10. That's a remarkable difference, for missing the best shot in the NHL.

They just don't work as hard when he's there, seem to rely on him too much... or maybe his presence takes the compete out of them. He's incredibly talented, best shot in the NHL right now... when he's on... and when he's on, he's a dominant player..but it just seems like he lacks the motivation to be that player often enough.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

Maybe we should’ve Joe Thornton’d his ass like Boston did.

 

[Niagara Bill]

I think the point of hiring Berube was to get him to get the boys to play like this because they thinking playing like this could win them a round or two. it might but agreed it can be real tedious to watch.

It's not tedious it is ineffective.
Carolina plays a game that is tedious and they can control a period, or a game. When the Blues won, they played a control game.
The 1967 Keafs played a control game, they couldn't score, or skate, but 40 yr old Armstrong could rub his check out along the boards and get the puck out of danger. They controlled games. This version..they are neither fish nor fowl.even our 3rd and 4th lines cannot play control hickey and AM, MM and Eillue are flow guys.

 

[Confucius]

I wouldn’t have that boorish kindergarten attitude and would manage and negotiate like an adult. If the players acted like children then it would take a long time, but I doubt that would be the case.

What prevents them from being traded? Not the CBA or their contracts?

If they didn’t want a nmc I’m sure they could negotiate more money. So if they take less to get a nmc they won’t give it away.

 

[Stephen]

Tavares back will be a big help. Really missing the Captain.

I wouldn’t mind handing the C back over to Tavares these days.

 

[Stephen]

It's not tedious it is ineffective.
Carolina plays a game that is tedious and they can control a period, or a game. When the Blues won, they played a control game.
The 1967 Keafs played a control game, they couldn't score, or skate, but 40 yr old Armstrong could rub his check out along the boards and get the puck out of danger. They controlled games. This version..they are neither fish nor fowl.even our 3rd and 4th lines cannot play control hickey and AM, MM and Eillue are flow guys.

It’s supposed to look ruthlessly effective, not tedious to the point of neutering yourself. I put that blame on the players.

When you have half asleep starts up front, on defensive coverage and in net, you don’t get the lead. You don’t get the lead, you can’t sit on the lead. You play catch up, you aren’t playing the way the new system is intended to work.

 

[thewave]

I wouldn’t mind handing the C back over to Tavares these days.

Or they could take it from Rielly who doesn't deserve it at all. Then take Marner from AM because he actually plays hockey when he isn't watching and waiting for Marner to do something cute and give him an easy goal.

 

[Leafs87]

When you had an offensive team that’s letting in a lot of goals you kind of expect that, but when you invest 44 million in 4 forwards and you can’t score, that’s a whole other new problem.

 

[PanniniClaus]

It's not tedious it is ineffective.
Carolina plays a game that is tedious and they can control a period, or a game. When the Blues won, they played a control game.
The 1967 Keafs played a control game, they couldn't score, or skate, but 40 yr old Armstrong could rub his check out along the boards and get the puck out of danger. They controlled games. This version..they are neither fish nor fowl.even our 3rd and 4th lines cannot play control hickey and AM, MM and Eillue are flow guys.

I agree with most of what you say. What you say about Carolina was correct in the past, but this team has changed their philosophy. Playing total hockey with 5 in the attack, 5 defending and constant interchanges of position. They look like the best team in the East to me by far if the goaltending holds up.

 

[Schennanigans]

This team circles up and down. You don’t know which team will show up. Team is going nowhere.

 

[wingman75]

This team circles up and down. You don’t know which team will show up. Team is going nowhere.

The inconsistency is a real problem. The gap between the good and bad is so huge with many of these players... things get so unbalanced sometimes.

From the goalies, to some of the D to most of the forwards. It feels like rolling a die... just randomness. Then imagine rolling 20 dice (representing each player) and getting some good, some bad...

The last great effort from the entire team was what? The Tampa game? Boston?

 

[yort2010]

We sucked at scoring goals when we were winning low scoring games early on in the season also.

If Woll shuts out both Ottawa and Minnesota, who both generated less chances than us, we wouldn't be complaining about the offence as much. Ideally you win every game 5-0 but we're outplaying other teams and losing because we have the second best goalie every game.

Ottawa generated nothing except for one chance where they had a 4 on 2 because of a broken stick and we couldn't get a save. Third period it's all Leafs, chance after chance and then the puck is batted into the air, Woll is looking at the colour of his skates while the puck goes over his head and in the net on the other side.

Against Minnesota - second shot on goal goes in. They get 1 PP, takes them 5 seconds to get a slow roller on the net that goes through Woll, 2-0. Game over.

Sure the offence can help out the goaltending, but the goaltending can also help out the offence. Ideally you have both clicking at the same time, but in a long season there's going to be long stretches where you have one or the other. Right now we have neither.

It's also compounded by the fact that Woll nearly always lets in an early (generally weak) demoralizing goal right at the start of the game which allows the other team to play trap hockey with the lead for the rest of the game. The team doesn't want to go all offence because they can't risk another weak shot on Woll going in, and the team can't play full defence because they're losing the game. It puts them in a position where they just kind of hope for a bounce or two without risking getting caught.

lol slow roller? Mathews tipped it. You aint going to win many games scoring 1 goal. Berube system doesnt match the player we have. They didnt fix that. Players like kampf, robertson, #29, dewar, even mitch, they dont play a north south type of game

 

[rumman]

Sucks he lost a puck battle, but it happens, and at least he was engaging with his man in the right spot. The real issue is that no other Leaf was covering anybody or supporting. We had 3 people standing around in front of the net, and Nylander up cherry picking.

It’s not s problem if it isn’t a regular occurrence, which it is. The guys a high priced black hole when it comes to defending. Try him on the wing and spare us the misery of watching him try to defend…….

 

[sxvnert]

No one wants to injure themselves before their precious tourney that no one gives a f*** about.

 

[Nineteen67]

If they didn’t want a nmc I’m sure they could negotiate more money. So if they take less to get a nmc they won’t give it away.

Getting those with movement clause to agree to waive them would be the least of the problems.

 

[leafs in five]

It's not tedious it is ineffective.
Carolina plays a game that is tedious and they can control a period, or a game. When the Blues won, they played a control game.
The 1967 Keafs played a control game, they couldn't score, or skate, but 40 yr old Armstrong could rub his check out along the boards and get the puck out of danger. They controlled games. This version..they are neither fish nor fowl.even our 3rd and 4th lines cannot play control hickey and AM, MM and Eillue are flow guys.

I don't think tedious means "able to control"

 

[leafs in five]

Send the puck up the same side wall, chip out to centre or flip it blueline to blueline, send it deep to maybe get a recovery and possession down low to feed it back to a dman who can't handle the puck or shoot or walk the line, repeat

 

[WildWolfdog]

This is funny for sure but Rielly shouldn't be in this picture - he definitely took a discount to sign longer term.

Even Tavares tbh lol