Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose To Florida In OT

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The trading of Kadri before his deal expired will be the detriment of Dubas’ time in Toronto. That move I think we will look back and see that it had a greater impact on the team than any other move Dubas made.

The craziest part is Kadri would have still fit on this team on his current deal with our cap structure.
I didn't mind the trade at the time and it made a lot of sense. Get a cheaper, more 'suitable' 3rd line center and a top 4 dman. We had our 1-2 punch down the middle, and Kadri dropped to 3rd line minutes with JT here and had what like 16 goals or something that year?

Not to mention Kadri had played himself out of 2 straight playoffs (and he did it last year in Colorado as well). I think management didn't trust him, and wanted to deal from a position of strength.

Obviously Barrie really didn't work out here, I do like Kerfoot though still, and he has played fairly well in the playoffs/this season.

I am not sure Kadri helps us win the last couple years, but I don't really care. That trade has happened, and it's time to move on from it. The Leafs have had a record breaking season with the team they have assembled, I think it is pretty good regardless of the Kadri trade.
 
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It is too bad that Kallgren completely crapped the bed in the other two periods. Even the earlier goals, he was not squaring up properly so he was constantly beat on his right side (by deflections or anything that went laterally) and it got completely out of hand at that point.

Kallgren can't be great for 20 minutes and terrible for the last 40 minutes. He didn't really give the Leafs the chance to compete in a game which may have not been an ideal effort, but was still well within reach.
Not saying Kally was great but that 1st period reminded me so much of the Habs series, the Leafs just continued to give up odd man rushes and needed their goalie to bail them out. I don’t think any team could win a lot of games if their teams continue to give up odd man rushes.
In the beginning of the season Leafs won 2-1 against TB, both Vas and Campbell were awesome but Leafs did have up a lot of odd man rushes.
 
Well said. Tavares has never been much of a player to dazzle with skill and score highlight reel goals. He made his way by being excellent at all of the little details, being a smart player, and knowing where to be on the ice. He's the kind of guy who you may not notice as a standout the ice but ends up with a few points on the scoresheet.

There are some obvious signs of his decline IMO - like his foot speed, his puck handling isn't as clean - so it remains to be seen how the remainder of his contract goes. But in his 4 years as a Leaf he's been a near PPG player. Pretty damn steady production.

Besides when he signed this deal, did anyone really expect him to be an $11 mill calibre player in year 4 and beyond as he get's into his mid 30's? Seems like a foolish gambit. You pay a lot for those first few years and hope he can sustain some level of good player through the remainder.

Yep he hit his peak playing with Marner and we flushed it away in the playoffs. Now he is just a very good player, but not an elite super star his $11M contract demands. If we had New York JT on this team right now... wow we'd be the favourites imo.
 
Not saying Kally was great but that 1st period reminded me so much of the Habs series, the Leafs just continued to give up odd man rushes and needed their goalie to bail them out. I don’t think any team could win a lot of games if their teams continue to give up odd man rushes.
In the beginning of the season Leafs won 2-1 against TB, both Vas and Campbell were awesome but Leafs did have up a lot of odd man rushes.

That is the weakness of the heavy posession style the Leafs use. When they're in the offensive zone and it's going well, it's a beautiful thing to watch in action. The risk is that with all the pinching D-men, it makes it suseptible to counter attacks and odd man rushes.

Last year vs Montreal, Montreal generated exactly 1 goal off of sustained zone pressure. The rest came by way of the powerplay or transition offense off of turnovers - including the game 5 and 6 OT goals and the game 1 winning goal which came off of a turnover on the powerplay. This is something Vegas keyed on vs Colorado as well. Colorado uses their defensemen to generate a lot of their offense and Vegas has good two way forwards - especially Stone and Pacioretty, and would use them to try and force the Avs Dmen to turn the puck.

The adjustments the Leafs made to that this year:

1) The Leafs no longer look to circle back at the blue line if there isn't a clean zone entry, they dump and chase a lot more now. This style of play is beautiful when it works but if teams can clog the neutral zone and blue line to prevent entries, then you are forced to circle back constantly and when you dump it in as a last resort, forecheckers don't have the speed built up to properly get to the puck. Montreal last year keyed in on this and starting standing guys up at the blue line to prevent zone entries. The first Montreal goal last year in Game 7 is a good example of how it worked against us. This year, if the Leafs circle back, it will usually be before the center line to produce a more optimal breakout. If they get to the blue line and are blocked from a zone entry, they will dump and chase.

2) The forecheck is a more conservative 1-1-3, the third man back helps cut down on any odd man counter attack rushes. Earlier in the year they used a 1-2-2 forecheck which is a more aggressive form style of forechecking but is suseptible to more counters. You also need fast skating d-men to run it effectively and Toronto's dmen aren't fast, they're mostly high IQ guys who have good positoning. Rielly and Liljegren who wasn't playing earlier this year anyways are the only dmen who I'd call fast skaters. It was a disaster for Toronto as they started 2-4-1 that in October culiminating in a 7-1 loss vs Pittsburgh where 5 of the 7 goals came off of rushes.

3) The defensemen this year are generally just better at making decisions. I think a key to why they were bad last year is that Keefe switched Sandin and Dermott back and forth during their series.

4) Matthews and Marner have taken huge steps defensively. They disrupt a lot of rush and break out attempts. Bunting is also really good at this. The Kampf line is a shutdown line whereas last year the third line was another scoring line so you got two defensively responsible lines. Nylander when he's engaged can be great at NZ defense but when he's not, he's not. That's why I think he's playing alongside Kampf and Engvall now. Tavares is slow but he's been an okay guy most of his career position wise, that's why he's currently with Kerfoot and Mikeyhev who are decent two way guys in their own right but have speed.
 
That is the weakness of the heavy posession style the Leafs use. When they're in the offensive zone and it's going well, it's a beautiful thing to watch in action. The risk is that with all the pinching D-men, it makes it suseptible to counter attacks and odd man rushes.

Last year vs Montreal, Montreal generated exactly 1 goal off of sustained zone pressure. The rest came by way of the powerplay or transition offense off of turnovers - including the game 5 and 6 OT goals and the game 1 winning goal which came off of a turnover on the powerplay. This is something Vegas keyed on vs Colorado as well. Colorado uses their defensemen to generate a lot of their offense and Vegas has good two way forwards - especially Stone and Pacioretty, and would use them to try and force the Avs Dmen to turn the puck.

The adjustments the Leafs made to that this year:

1) The Leafs no longer look to circle back at the blue line if there isn't a clean zone entry, they dump and chase a lot more now. This style of play is beautiful when it works but if teams can clog the neutral zone and blue line to prevent entries, then you are forced to circle back constantly and when you dump it in as a last resort, forecheckers don't have the speed built up to properly get to the puck. Montreal last year keyed in on this and starting standing guys up at the blue line to prevent zone entries. The first Montreal goal last year in Game 7 is a good example of how it worked against us. This year, if the Leafs circle back, it will usually be before the center line to produce a more optimal breakout. If they get to the blue line and are blocked from a zone entry, they will dump and chase.

2) The forecheck is a more conservative 1-1-3, the third man back helps cut down on any odd man counter attack rushes. Earlier in the year they used a 1-2-2 forecheck which is a more aggressive form style of forechecking but is suseptible to more counters. You also need fast skating d-men to run it effectively and Toronto's dmen aren't fast, they're mostly high IQ guys who have good positoning. Rielly and Liljegren who wasn't playing earlier this year anyways are the only dmen who I'd call fast skaters. It was a disaster for Toronto as they started 2-4-1 that in October culiminating in a 7-1 loss vs Pittsburgh where 5 of the 7 goals came off of rushes.

3) The defensemen this year are generally just better at making decisions. I think a key to why they were bad last year is that Keefe switched Sandin and Dermott back and forth during their series.

4) Matthews and Marner have taken huge steps defensively. They disrupt a lot of rush and break out attempts. Bunting is also really good at this. The Kampf line is a shutdown line whereas last year the third line was another scoring line so you got two defensively responsible lines. Nylander when he's engaged can be great at NZ defense but when he's not, he's not. That's why I think he's playing alongside Kampf and Engvall now. Tavares is slow but he's been an okay guy most of his career position wise, that's why he's currently with Kerfoot and Mikeyhev who are decent two way guys in their own right but have speed.
Ok with 1 2 3 but 4 is way off.
The Leafs cannot spell shutdown. They never play a period of D first, which is why they cannot put a game on ice. Until they decide that winning is more important than adulation they cannot be a team that is a SC contender.
 
Ok with 1 2 3 but 4 is way off.
The Leafs cannot spell shutdown. They never play a period of D first, which is why they cannot put a game on ice. Until they decide that winning is more important than adulation they cannot be a team that is a SC contender.
The Leafs are a top 10 team at every possible defensive metric you can think of. Their achilles heel this year is goaltending.

And even with sub .900 goaltending for most of the year, they've been in the Top 5 of the league in standings all year. You don't get to where the Leafs are with purely good offense.
 
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The boys showed up & showed they wanted THIS one more, so kudos to them.
Campbell was pretty solid too, except for the weak poke check.

Keefe should slap himself for this one by putting JT out there in OT.

And get Gio to show Brodie & Holl how to defend 2 on 1s PLEASE!

Also, like someone mentioned earlier, why Willy & AM play so lazy in OT ffs?!
 
Leafs roll into the playoffs with 2-OT losses at FLA and an 8-1 taste from Tampa. Scared to see what Boston has for us. Leafs may need 2 points to avoid the road in Round 1.
Giving these potential playoff opponent teams a false sense of security. Keefe is a genius, I expect to see Clifford and Simmonds 20 minutes each in these last games.:sarcasm:
 
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Not surprised by the result.

Well it was an overall improvement from the previous game where Leafs went up 5-1 and then lost 7-6 in OT to Florida.

This Panthers team is for real and won't be an easy out, as they seem to have the killer instinct as they have come from behind and won 29 games this year.

Might be our Leafs 2nd round opponent, after we're done eliminating the reigning Stanley Cup champs in round #1.

Expectations are high this year for multiple round succes at the minimum.
 
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Well it was an overall improvement from the previous game where Leafs went up 5-1 and then lost 7-6 in OT to Florida.

This Panthers team is for real and won't be an easy out, as they seem to have the killer instinct as they have come from behind and won 29 games this year.

Might be our Leafs 2nd round opponent, after we're done eliminating the reigning Stanley Cup champs in round #1.

Expectations are high this year for multiple round succes at the minimum.

Yeah, they got an away point from the best team in the league.
 
The Leafs are a top 10 team at every possible defensive metric you can think of. Their achilles heel this year is goaltending.

And even with sub .900 goaltending for most of the year, they've been in the Top 5 of the league in standings all year. You don't get to where the Leafs are with purely good offense.
Disagree with your premise. A SC team must be content with 9 shots in the 3rd period against great teams like Florida and learn how to shut them down in neutral zone when they have a 2 goal lead. They need to be proud of that. In a series close out game, get the lead and then shut the other team down period. Boring but tried and true. Is the goal to try and expand a lead or love the one you have. Case in point 5 to 1 lead and lose. What happened. No one wants to stop 2nd goal they look to score the 6th. Goaltending or not letting the desperate team carry the puck across your blue line leads to blown leads.
 
It's all about the misses, and I'm not talking Mrs koho. I am not talking about "shot attempts," I'm talking about flat out misses. Without going back and doing an official tally, I'm talking about players missing an open net and scoring goal number 4 to win. There were 4 of those between the 3rd period and OT. 4 times the Florida goaltender was no longer in a position to make the stop, 4 times a Leaf had the proverbial "game on his stick" and yet the hockey "Loki" decided to turn a cruel trick and wave the puck by. Whether or not it hit a leg, a skate a stick or just the goalie himself the puck either sailed wide or over top of the net.

Most of the boys put in a good effort, there were very few passengers. Ilya Mikheyev has slowly turned into a stud before all our eyes and Engvall is right there alongside him. Neither one of them give up on pucks, both of them have started looking for that play that creates a scoring opportunity instead of just dumping the puck off. They both play "die hard" along the boards, if they lose a puck battle which is happening less and less these days, the guy that wins it has had to pay a price. Now if only they can get everyone on the team to buy into this aggressive "physical" brand of hockey, they'll be seen as true contenders

If "Kerfoot only had better hands," also comes into play with a couple of opportunities ending up landing somewhere on the Panther crest. Waiting for a whistle.

I'm not going to whine about squandering the lead because they didn't squander it so much as Florida did everything they could to crawl back into that game, they then hung on for dear life and waited for the Leafs to make just the slightest error.

The Leafs need to learn from this, and move on to the business of shutting down Ovie and the Caps.

GLfG
 
Expectations are high this year for multiple round success at the minimum.
I just dont see that happening anymore. We cant even hold leads anymore. Its too predictable. We get up 2-4 goals and then just take the night off.
 
Same reason Gio didn't pass it to him the last OT, he took the tough shot because he had no confidence in JT lol
You mean the last OT game? Because if you do you need to look at Gio's goal again, what you're saying is nowhere near the truth or reality of what occurred. Maybe only Mitch Marner could have gotten a pass through those two defenders, and it would've been a miracle had he done so, but he didn't and it wasn't Mitch carrying the puck. It was Gio and he had no choice and zero chance of threading the puck through the two defenders. So please if you want to spread these obvious fallacies at least do so by using situations where they at least seem plausible.
 
Disagree with your premise. A SC team must be content with 9 shots in the 3rd period against great teams like Florida and learn how to shut them down in neutral zone when they have a 2 goal lead. They need to be proud of that. In a series close out game, get the lead and then shut the other team down period. Boring but tried and true. Is the goal to try and expand a lead or love the one you have. Case in point 5 to 1 lead and lose. What happened. No one wants to stop 2nd goal they look to score the 6th. Goaltending or not letting the desperate team carry the puck across your blue line leads to blown leads.
The Leafs are 33-6 this year when they hold a lead. Some teams that are a part of that 33 number: Colorado, Tampa Bay, Boston, Carolina, Minnesota, Edmonton, St. Louis, LA, New York Rangers, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Washington, Dallas, Las Vegas - you know, literally every playoff team except for Calgary.
 
Because Tavares makes $11 million and he's gonna play, whether he fits or not, dammit!


Or it could be because he's still a point per game player and that he's still a very valuable asset

Against some teams some players are going to stand out and some are not. Tavares is not the player he used to be, but let's not pretend like he forgot how to play and a total dead weight

He had 2 very good chances last night. Brobo was on a different level and made some great saves, as he did against Matthews

The play on OT was a broken plan. He made the pass, both him and Nylander lost position and they countered. Welcome to 3 on 3

Starting on OT Matthews line gave up a clear cut easy breakaway. I guess we are not going to talk about that play.
 

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