Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose To Florida In OT

[Hurt]

The 3v3 is a gimmick, as mentioned in this thread. If the NHL actually believed in it, they'd implement it in the playoffs too, which they didn't and won't.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Frustrating part is that we blew a 2 goal lead; crapped on the PP; gave up a goal on PK (i.e. special teams sucked ass) and of course the OT slower than slow tavares on ice

Florida is just better and deeper. I don't think k there is any shame in that. The Leafs can play with them but Panthers depth wins out eventually.... And they don't even have Ekblad back yet, whonis by far their best guy on the back end. Him and Weegar will play MAJOR minutes for them in the playoffs.

The loss vs Tampa Bay was humbling, but it was an, obvious, fluke in terms of the beating we took. Tonight's loss was in line with the multi-goal blown lead in Florida last time we played. They're just a better team over the course of the game than Toronto is.

Doesn't help that we're now heading into the playoffs with our best player clearly battling through and injury that is affecting him and 2nd top line player who is hurt, and is expected to miss some time. Terrible time for injuries to top tier players, especially on a team that lacks organizational scoring depth from outside the core lineup.

 

[meefer]

Yes but they have lost the last 2

Yes, the very definition of a hopeless team.

 

[Syed Ammad rizvi]

A player needs to actually be injured to go on LTIR. People already tried to make this dumbass idea in the Tavares thread. You can’t LTIR a non-injured player. Tavares & the NHLPA would file a grievance within 30 seconds.

Obviously Tavares has to agree with it.. it is for the greater good after all

 

[PromisedLand]

Am I tripping or is all this garbage being posted about Matthews look dumb?

He legit looked like our first or 2nd best player tonight.

If anything he should have been played less tonight - 21:40 was too much IMO

Keefe should cut down the minutes of Marner and Matthews for the remainder of the games IMO. Force Marner to sit his ass and rest up too

 

[Stephen]

The 3v3 is a gimmick, as mentioned in this thread. If the NHL actually believed in it, they'd implement it in the playoffs too, which they didn't and won't.

On the flipside, if the Leafs were the best team in the East, we should have beaten Florida in these gimmick formats.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I will.

Kadri:

64 GP 26 G 58 A 84 PTS

Cap hit: 4.5 million

Tavares 75 points in 77 GP, can’t skate.

Cap hit: too damn much.

Good for Kadri. He is having a career year at a perfect time, will get his payday, and then likely revert to the 50-55 point center he has been for most of his career and will likely get worse near the end of his contract (which will likely end at 37 instead of 34 like Tavares').

Meanwhile Tavares continues to truck along doing what he has done for pretty much his entire career, despite having a career-low shooting percentage. He has been a force the entire season outside of January/February, where his line was getting caved in (partially due to Tavares, partially due to some really atrocious efforts from Nylander, and partially due to atrocious goaltending) and he only had 18 points in 23 games.

Tavares gets paid because he almost always finds ways to be an amazing player even when he doesn't put up points. Something that most players who make less than him can't do (and those who do are likely getting paid more than him on their next deals). If Leafs fans can't or don't recognize that, then that is on them.

 

[Coachcorner]

We were the better team but those small black pucks didn't go in.

We will win the next gezame. For surely. And 34 will scesore much. stay optimistic, even though our tru tank dawg and G bunting is now missing in action like chuck norris in those old films missing in action.

 

[Griffin76]

Nylander is one of my favourite players on the team. He’s lazy at times but he’s not the only one. This whole debacle of OT starts with Matthews and Marner not even getting possession. It was downhill from there.

Either way, 3 on 3 OT doesn’t happen in the playoffs so who cares. We got a point. We move on.

Correct. They started Barkov and we should've started Mikheyev and Engvall, gotten possession and handed it off to Marner and Matthews to end it.

 

[PromisedLand]

He is? Did Keefe say this?

Matthews did but then added he wants to play but they'll see tomorrow

 

[Hurt]

On the flipside, if the Leafs were the best team in the East, we should have beaten Florida in these gimmick formats.

I don't see the logic personally, Stephen. The Panthers have the most OT wins in the NHL this season but Minny and Dallas are tied for second. Does that make them the second and third best teams in the league?

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding.

 

[riffle]

3 vs 3 OT is meaningless all season long. Maybe you can derive some conclusion from the Tampa game, which would be silly. But to be upset that the Leafs outplayed the best team in the league only to lose in a gimmick that doesn’t exist in playoffs is actually an encouraging sign.

JT isn’t detrimentally slow 5 v 5, Matthews is a rare player that performs better with less time and space; he is also a lot worse defensively 3 v 3 because he can’t take away as effectively, the goal that was ultimately scored against and their only other good chance in OT came off of a D skating from the blue line through the slot; a play that doesn’t exist in real hockey.

Silly? Perhaps, Tampa derived a benefit from the "Tampa game"? Maybe, they'll look back as they're skating around with their 3rd Cup in 3 seasons and point to that meaningless game as the catalyst?

Danault seemed to see pretty good results taking away time and space from Matthews. Am glad Tampa doesn't have one of those anymore.

We'll see what the loss of 3 points in the last 2 games actually means when the regular season concludes on April 29th. Still, winning and losing in this context is not nor ever meaningless. It is yet to be determined how much it meant, but it meant something.

 

[Stephen]

I don't see the logic personally, Stephen. The Panthers have the most OT wins in the NHL this season but Minny and Dallas are tied for second. Does that make them the second and third best teams in the league?

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding.

Florida is the team with the most points in the Eastern Conference and they've beaten us twice in OT. Think the simple explanation here is if the Leafs fancy themselves the better team they sure aren't demonstrating that. It's a competition every night. You don't get anywhere downplaying the format.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Another game where an opposing goalie stones us and there ain’t a damn thing we could do about it. We’ve seen this before in the playoffs. We dominated against Columbus and against Montreal but were stoned. I’m afraid Vasi is going to do the same.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

On the flipside, if the Leafs were the best team in the East, we should have beaten Florida in these gimmick formats.

I think the Leafs should be more concerned about the losses to bottom feeders than losing in OT's (if we wanted to be the best team in the East).

We are 6-6 in OT's. That is pretty much the same as Colorado (6-5), Carolina (6-6), and the Rangers (4-3). We have given extra points to teams like Florida and lost 6 points due to OT losses, but we have lost a lot more than that due to losing very winnable games against weaker teams.

Boston, Minnesota, Florida, and Tampa are the main teams that do better than us in OT's (and a few fringe teams like Dallas), but that also means they rely on a format that is not available in the playoffs to get their wins and that we actually have the 3rd most RW in the league (behind Colorado with 2 more than us and Carolina with 1 more). We won't have to worry about bottom feeders in the playoffs, but those teams will need to be able to win games outside of the 3-on-3 or shootout.

 

[Jojalu]

Florida is just better and deeper. I don't think k there is any shame in that. The Leafs can play with them but Panthers depth wins out eventually.... And they don't even have Ekblad back yet, whonis by far their best guy on the back end. Him and Weegar will play MAJOR minutes for them in the playoffs.

The loss vs Tampa Bay was humbling, but it was an, obvious, fluke in terms of the beating we took. Tonight's loss was in line with the multi-goal blown lead in Florida last time we played. They're just a better team over the course of the game than Toronto is.

Doesn't help that we're now heading into the playoffs with our best player clearly battling through and injury that is affecting him and 2nd top line player who is hurt, and is expected to miss some time. Terrible time for injuries to top tier players, especially on a team that lacks organizational scoring depth from outside the core lineup.

How do you come to the conclusion Florida is the better team?

3 games played. Tor whipped them at home. Lost in OT twice that would never happen in the playoffs.

Glorida is going through the most bizarre season ever by smashing the previous revord of comeback wins.

Tor was clearly the better team for the first and third tonight and they were better for the first two periods the previous game.

Don't get me wrong. I believe Florida has a great team but clearly better than the Leafs is simply not true

 

[BertCorbeau]

Good for Kadri. He is having a career year at a perfect time, will get his payday, and then likely revert to the 50-55 point center he has been for most of his career and will likely get worse near the end of his contract (which will likely end at 37 instead of 34 like Tavares').

Meanwhile Tavares continues to truck along doing what he has done for pretty much his entire career, despite having a career-low shooting percentage. He has been a force the entire season outside of January/February, where his line was getting caved in (partially due to Tavares, partially due to some really atrocious efforts from Nylander, and partially due to atrocious goaltending) and he only had 18 points in 23 games.

Tavares gets paid because he almost always finds ways to be an amazing player even when he doesn't put up points. Something that most players who make less than him can't do (and those who do are likely getting paid more than him on their next deals). If Leafs fans can't or don't recognize that, then that is on them.

Well said. Tavares has never been much of a player to dazzle with skill and score highlight reel goals. He made his way by being excellent at all of the little details, being a smart player, and knowing where to be on the ice. He's the kind of guy who you may not notice as a standout the ice but ends up with a few points on the scoresheet.

There are some obvious signs of his decline IMO - like his foot speed, his puck handling isn't as clean - so it remains to be seen how the remainder of his contract goes. But in his 4 years as a Leaf he's been a near PPG player. Pretty damn steady production.

Besides when he signed this deal, did anyone really expect him to be an $11 mill calibre player in year 4 and beyond as he get's into his mid 30's? Seems like a foolish gambit. You pay a lot for those first few years and hope he can sustain some level of good player through the remainder.

 

[Dreakmur]

This is an important point that I've made numerous times. People can look at the number and plug their noses, but Dubas likely knew he was overpaying for a couple years to bring Tavares to Toronto and could live with an overpaid, PPG 2nd line center, who will probably still be good for 60+ points per season by the end of his contract. What he didn't expect, was how much cap percentage Tavares would be eating up. When the contract was signed he was probably projecting about $90 million in space heading into next season and $93-$95 million by the last year of the contract. He envisioned being able to build a deep core of forwards around that overpay. Clearly Covid-19 screwed his plan!

Imagine what this team looks like with $8 million more dollars of space to fix the goaltending tandem , add the top 6 forward they're missing and the defenseman they are missing?

Nylander-Matthews-Marner
Bunting-Tavares-Addition
Kerfoot-Kampf-Mikheyev
Engvall-Spezza-Blackwell
Simmonds

Reilly-Addition
Girodano-Liljegren
Muzzin-Brodie
Sandin-Lyubushkin

Campbell
Addition

That changes everything.

The lower cap has kept prices down on other players. If the cap raised we’d likely have the same players getting paid more.

 

[BertCorbeau]

This is an important point that I've made numerous times. People can look at the number and plug their noses, but Dubas likely knew he was overpaying for a couple years to bring Tavares to Toronto and could live with an overpaid, PPG 2nd line center, who will probably still be good for 60+ points per season by the end of his contract. What he didn't expect, was how much cap percentage Tavares would be eating up. When the contract was signed he was probably projecting about $90 million in space heading into next season and $93-$95 million by the last year of the contract. He envisioned being able to build a deep core of forwards around that overpay. Clearly Covid-19 screwed his plan!

Imagine what this team looks like with $8 million more dollars of space to fix the goaltending tandem , add the top 6 forward they're missing and the defenseman they are missing?

Nylander-Matthews-Marner
Bunting-Tavares-Addition
Kerfoot-Kampf-Mikheyev
Engvall-Spezza-Blackwell
Simmonds

Reilly-Addition
Girodano-Liljegren
Muzzin-Brodie
Sandin-Lyubushkin

Campbell
Addition

That changes everything.

This is an excellent point as well. In the cap era, we have never seen this level of cap stagnation. COVID was unpredictable and unprecidented. So you can't fault the assumption at the time JT was signed that gradual cap progressions over his deal with help the impact on the team's cap structure.

See this:

 

[Stephen]

I think the Leafs should be more concerned about the losses to bottom feeders than losing in OT's (if we wanted to be the best team in the East).

We are 6-6 in OT's. That is pretty much the same as Colorado (6-5), Carolina (6-6), and the Rangers (4-3). We have given extra points to teams like Florida and lost 6 points due to OT losses, but we have lost a lot more than that due to losing very winnable games against weaker teams.

Boston, Minnesota, Florida, and Tampa are the main teams that do better than us in OT's (and a few fringe teams like Dallas), but that also means they rely on a format that is not available in the playoffs to get their wins and that we actually have the 3rd most RW in the league (behind Colorado with 2 more than us and Carolina with 1 more). We won't have to worry about bottom feeders in the playoffs, but those teams will need to be able to win games outside of the 3-on-3 or shootout.

Maybe "worry" isn't the right word, but the last few games coming up this week will be an interesting 'preliminary playoff round' for us to watch. Feels like the team has taken a big step back since Tampa so it'll be vital for them to bounce back and get back on the right footing and close out strong. I don't believe in the idea they can flip a switch come Game 1, since they've never had that killer instinct so they just need to demonstrate their readiness by looking good in the last few games. Also doesn't help that we're taking on a bunch of injuries to the big line lately.

 

[Hurt]

Florida is the team with the most points in the Eastern Conference and they've beaten us twice in OT. Think the simple explanation here is if the Leafs fancy themselves the better team they sure aren't demonstrating that. It's a competition every night. You don't get anywhere downplaying the format.

I don't fancy Toronto as the better team. Florida is the best regular season team in the league and thus has shown themselves to be the best at the gimmick aspect.

 

[mikeyz]

I thought the Leafs deserved that win. That 3rd period was all Leafs.

A lot of good stuff. They played a good game and Campbell was great.

Ahhhhh. The good old "Deserved to win" metre.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Would have liked the win but nice response after the Tampa game. That was really the biggest thing. Bit sad not winning but happy with the effort. Losing Bunting will hurt

Agreed. No shame in losing to a better team that, despite a really great effort overall!

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Maybe "worry" isn't the right word, but the last few games coming up this week will be an interesting 'preliminary playoff round' for us to watch. Feels like the team has taken a big step back since Tampa so it'll be vital for them to bounce back and get back on the right footing and close out strong. I don't believe in the idea they can flip a switch come Game 1, since they've never had that killer instinct so they just need to demonstrate their readiness by looking good in the last few games. Also doesn't help that we're taking on a bunch of injuries to the big line lately.

Do you mean two days ago? They followed that up with one game where they outplayed the team with the most points in the league for 2/3's of the game.

Or do you mean the 6-2 win where we have been 6-2-2 since?

I am not worried about this team taking the foot off the pedal at all. If anything, it looks like they have ramped things up. It was a bad 2 periods against Tampa, and sure the loss against BUF and 7-6 loss against Florida in a B2B sucked recently, but there have been very few instances of complacency from this team this year... And even fewer against teams that are not near the bottom of the league.

We need to stay healthy, we need our top guys (especially Matthews and Marner) to perform, we need some puck luck, and we need Campbell to consistently give us performances like he did today. All of these things are the standard for successful playoff teams. We get that and we can win a lot more than just one series.

 

[IrishInOntario]

The lower cap has kept prices down on other players. If the cap raised we’d likely have the same players getting paid more.

Which players do you, realistically, think took a significant discount due to cap stagnation? Is Mrazek really worth much more than 3.8 million? Maybe Rielly gets $8.0 rather than $7.5 next year. Had Engvall or Mikheyev shown anything prior to this year that would have gotten them bigger contracts? Maybe very marginally. Simmonds, Clifford, Spezza, Blackwell, etc would still be who they are and what they're paid.

Maybe we wouldn't have all $8 million (to your point) but I think we'd have at least $6 million more to spend, if we had the same group.